JV talks, sort of

[JV1973]

May I ask your thoughts on today?

Today is just an inevitable conclusion to something that has dragged on for way too long. what more is there to say?

 

[thehog]

No... I'll happily tell the whole story. It's just not relevant.

On CA, Legeay was very clear, not his fault, but I had leftovers from USPS, and occasionally I relapsed into using. Would you like races? 2001 Dauphine...2000 Dauphine...2002 Tour de France.

What exactly would you like to know?

Enough details.

What are thoughts on today's events? The future for the sport and what else can be done to ensure we never get to situation again?

Be interested to hear your vision

 

[JV1973]

Thanks to Jonathan Vaughters,

Without your encouragement. Today, wouldn't be today.

Believe and insist.

Thank you,

TB

Thank you. And damn straight.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

What about STOP or quit?
You;re grasping when you use a tweet.

I am only going to say this once.

Flag my post, or gtfo. I won't have you or anyone other than a moderator tell me to stop posting here.

JV is another person, just like you or me. He is not special. If he says something and it doesn't line up, I will call him on it. If he tweets something, I can repeat that tweet. If he disagrees he can respond and explain.

I don't care if I make a million mistakes or snafus. You have no right to tell people to stop posting.

 

[thehog]

I am only going to say this once.

Flag my post, or gtfo. I won't have you or anyone other than a moderator tell me to stop posting here.

JV is another person, just like you or me. He is not special. If he says something and it doesn't line up, I will call him on it. If he tweets something, I can repeat that tweet. If he disagrees he can respond and explain.

I don't care if I make a million mistakes or snafus. You have no right to tell people to stop posting.

Wiggo calm down.

Today is a day of reflection. Not aggression.

Let it be.

 

[Red Lobster]

I am only going to say this once.

Flag my post, or gtfo. I won't have you or anyone other than a moderator tell me to stop posting here.

JV is another person, just like you or me. He is not special. If he says something and it doesn't line up, I will call him on it. If he tweets something, I can repeat that tweet. If he disagrees he can respond and explain.

I don't care if I make a million mistakes or snafus. You have no right to tell people to stop posting.

Go back, re-read, think ... then EDIT.

 

[TubularBills]

Thank you. And damn straight.

Damn Straight.

Best friends forever?

You earned it.

Conviction is honor,

TB

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Today is just an inevitable conclusion to something that has dragged on for way too long. what more is there to say?

I know its inevitable - but even I have gone through a rollercoaster of emotions today. I literally had to stop reading and take time out when reading DZs account of what happened at the cafe with JB & LdM.

But, to answer your highlighted question - I was interested in your thoughts?

 

[JV1973]

Enough details.

What are thoughts on today's events? The future for the sport and what else can be done to ensure we never get to situation again?

Be interested to hear your vision

That's a far more interesting topic... So, the key is to reduce all the risk factors of falling into doping and maximize the risk of getting caught.

So, minimizing risk factors include:

*removing artificial points systems that detract from sporting value of races.
*inserting ex dopers in a team environment that have been caught and are willing to teach the lessons they learned.
*hiring reputable doctors/medical staff
*balance and internal checks on reporting.

Maximizing risk of getting caught

*increase volume and efficacy of testing
*pursue old cases, even if rider is retired to send message
*retroactive re-testing
*culture of truthfulness...no omertà...if your roommate is doping, say something, as it could kill team/sport if let to continue.

 

[JV1973]

I know its inevitable - but even I have gone through a rollercoaster of emotions today. I literally had to stop reading and take time out when reading DZs account of what happened at the cafe with JB & LdM.

But, to answer your highlighted question - I was interested in your thoughts?

The emotions I went through were in 2002, when i walked away, at 29, because I couldn't live with myself anymore. But that's a long time ago.

Also, my emotions were when I sat and watched Floyd get fried and said nothing. I didn't much like that. But, I had a mission and a team to protect. I couldn't commit suicide. Luckily there was a time for me to correct this cowardly BS. Floyd and I remain good friends.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

That's a far more interesting topic... So, the key is to reduce all the risk factors of falling into doping and maximize the risk of getting caught.

So, minimizing risk factors include:

*removing artificial points systems that detract from sporting value of races.
*inserting ex dopers in a team environment that have been caught and are willing to teach the lessons they learned.
*hiring reputable doctors/medical staff
*balance and internal checks on reporting.

Maximizing risk of getting caught

*increase volume and efficacy of testing
*pursue old cases, even if rider is retired to send message
*retroactive re-testing
*culture of truthfulness...no omertà...if your roommate is doping, say something, as it could kill team/sport if let to continue.

Care to comment on whether you believe the current president of the UCI, and his subordinates are the people to begin to help institute such things?



























Just kidding, you don't have to answer that.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I am only going to say this once.

Flag my post, or gtfo. I won't have you or anyone other than a moderator tell me to stop posting here.

JV is another person, just like you or me. He is not special. If he says something and it doesn't line up, I will call him on it. If he tweets something, I can repeat that tweet. If he disagrees he can respond and explain.

I don't care if I make a million mistakes or snafus. You have no right to tell people to stop posting.

I didnt tell you to stop posting - you said JVs tweet implied "start or quit", I pointed out it could also mean "stop or quit".

Your reaction to me and to the highlighted is exactly your problem - you actually have limited knowledge, but it doesn't stop you jumping in with both feet.

 

[SnoSaw]

Thoughts on increasing the penalty if a rider is "popped"? Why not a 4 year ban instead of a two year? If guilty, why not huge fines to go towards testing?
Other thoughts?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The emotions I went through were in 2002, when i walked away, at 29, because I couldn't live with myself anymore. But that's a long time ago.

Also, my emotions were when I sat and watched Floyd get fried and said nothing. I didn't much like that. But, I had a mission and a team to protect. I couldn't commit suicide. Luckily there was a time for me to correct this cowardly BS. Floyd and I remain good friends.

On another note, read the affidavit. Thank you. When you read real honesty, it sticks out among other things that do not appear quite as rigorous in honesty.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I didnt tell you to stop posting - you said JVs tweet implied "start or quit", I pointed out it could also mean "stop or quit".

gotcha. my apologies. if "stop" then Legeay knew JV was doping, which raises more questions.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How about releasing everyone's blood profile?

 

[Red Lobster]

JV,

Any idea what is the impact of this on the young guys (Talansky, Howes, Phinney, Van Garderen)? Is the impact really the structural changes that might follow or is the unusual and dramatic nature of this likely to have a visceral impact on their mindset? Are guys like DZ better able to influence the young guys now that this is on the table?

... and thanks for the significant role you have played in all this.

 

[mr. tibbs]

[real talk about dates and races]

It's nice to see this kind of transparency. I still remember the pleasant surprise your NYTimes op-ed elicited from me.

Chapeau, Vaughters.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

He wasn't, and he's already admitted that.

Only that he started preparing for the TdF -02 but then stopped and retired. JV claimed he was clean in -00 and -01. He told @ssbike he was clean @ P-N -00.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

JV claimed he was clean in -00 and -01.

Or certainly gave that impression anyway.

Read this and see if it looks like he doped on and off every year at CA.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/vaughters-non-admission-admission/

I had immense respect for Roger Legeay. Was a bit tired of disappointing him. 2 ways to stop disappointing him.

Legaey knew I would be limited in some ways. from the day he signed me. Love that guy. But I didn't like letting him down.

Better to walk away, than walk back into the mess....or continue to let down people you respect.

My team from 2000-retirement was credt agricole. Management was absolutely anti-doping. I hated letting them down when I couldn't win.

No.The team was clear:No doping. But we were barely getting into the big races and needed results. I knew how to get that done..

So, choice was: Go back to something I'd walked away from and lie, or disappoint Roger, who I really liked. Disappoint either way

Totally disingenuous.

 

[JV1973]

Or certainly gave that impression anyway.

Read this and see if it looks like he doped on and off every year at CA.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/vaughters-non-admission-admission/


I don't see how any of this is inconsistent? I was struggling with what to do in those years. Team was clean. I was not, always. Paris-Nice in 2000 was clean...dauphine 2000 was not.

This isn't all so simple that you can just use a binary yes/no equation. I drifted back and forth. Then finally quit.

You can call me what you'd like, but disingenuous is not accurate.

Time for bed.

 

[thehog]

Or certainly gave that impression anyway.

Read this and see if it looks like he doped on and off every year at CA.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/vaughters-non-admission-admission/


Totally disingenuous.

Seriously? 6 different riders confessed today and you're trying to pick holes in a tweet?

I honestly think we've moved on. We know where we are today and without doubt what went on in the past.

There's a lot of work still to do but this is not it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Or certainly gave that impression anyway.

Read this and see if it looks like he doped on and off every year at CA.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/vaughters-non-admission-admission/




Totally disingenuous.

There is nothing to suggest in those tweets that he was not doping during those years.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Because I could feel his subtle and never overt or explicit disappointment that I could get third at Tour of the Med and second in the Midi Libre TT and I pulled off good results but when it came to the Tour, I never quite had it. Even in the weeklong races, I was never quite podium. I was close. So basically my mind was ‘OK, I know he is saying he doesn’t want me to dope. But he wants me to dope.’ Well, no, that’s not fair to Roger. He didn’t want me to dope. What I observed was that Roger was getting extremely concerned that the team didn’t have the points to stay in the top division and race the Tour. And I could see the sweat beads on his forehead of ‘If we don’t do well in this race…’ and he was getting concerned for his organization. He had put us at the precipice, the end of the [Division I] classification even though we had a very talented team, because we were clean. I wanted to help. I wanted to get results so the team wasn’t in that bad position. I was on an existing contract so I wasn’t financially incentivized to do so. And it put me in a place where I was prepared to start doping again.

And at that point it was just too…for me it became that there were too many forces coming in at the same time. There was Roger who needed points, Roger saying, ‘Please don’t dope.’ There was the wasp sting where Roger said, ‘We need to be honest,’ but others said, ‘What are you crazy, that you didn’t just put a TUE in your medical file?’ and there were persistent rumors that tons of people were still blood doping and it was all compounding. I finally was just about to independently—no doctor, nothing—but do it myself. Do it right, do as much as I could and I don’t know.

Do you think people reading this quote and those tweets above get the impression that...

a) Vaughters was ready to dope again for the first time since leaving USPS for the squeaky clean CA.
or
b) Vaughters was ready to dope again for the first time since the last time he let RL down by doping on his not-as-squeaky-clean-as-he-would've-liked team, as you had apparently done every season at CA.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do you think people reading this quote and those tweets above get the impression that...

a) Vaughters was ready to dope again for the first time since leaving USPS for the squeaky clean CA.
or
b) Vaughters was ready to dope again for the first time since the last time he let RL down by doping on his not-as-squeaky-clean-as-he-would've-liked team, as you had apparently done every season at CA.

I guess if people went to page 7 of an 8 page interview and just read that paragraph.....