JV talks, sort of

[Dear Wiggo]

The doctors are not limited to Inigo. The doctor for squeaky clean Real Madrid also spent a year with Garmin. Apparently JV sat him on a motor bike to do motor pacing and he was no good.

Go figure.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How's this for an average?

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2096964#post2096964

22 riders above 6.00 W/kg for a stage 18 climb.

Remind me what Lemond was doing in similar circumstances?

Not a single Garmin or Team Sky rider though, so chapeau to their leading edge training techniques / coaches there. Kiriyenka won the stage, so pacing has a definite impact on this list.

 

[Taxus4a]

How's this for an average?

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2096964#post2096964

22 riders above 6.00 W/kg for a stage 18 climb.

Remind me what Lemond was doing in similar circumstances?

Not a single Garmin or Team Sky rider though, so chapeau to their leading edge training techniques / coaches there. Kiriyenka won the stage, so pacing has a definite impact on this list.

6 wattios/kg in a climb of 6 kms is something that some people maybe from Africa or whereever will improve a lot in the future.

I dont Know the problem of 6 w/kg in a climb like this at the sea level. Lance did much more in Hautacam, a lomg climb, wich is "amazing"

You will see in Angliru how is different.


Peña Carbarga is not Tourmalet:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/07/power-from-tourmalet-6wkg-anyone.html

 

[proffate]

How's this for an average?

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2096964#post2096964

22 riders above 6.00 W/kg for a stage 18 climb.

Remind me what Lemond was doing in similar circumstances?

Not a single Garmin or Team Sky rider though, so chapeau to their leading edge training techniques / coaches there. Kiriyenka won the stage, so pacing has a definite impact on this list.

beneficiaries of a rest-day tailwind (or an actual tailwind)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

6 wattios/kg in a climb of 6 kms is something that some people maybe from Africa or whereever will improve a lot in the future.

I dont Know the problem of 6 w/kg in a climb like this at the sea level. Lance did much more in Hautacam, a lomg climb, wich is "amazing"

2 pieces of ironic comparison.

Good grief.

 

[red_flanders]

How's this for an average?

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2096964#post2096964

22 riders above 6.00 W/kg for a stage 18 climb.

Remind me what Lemond was doing in similar circumstances?

Not a single Garmin or Team Sky rider though, so chapeau to their leading edge training techniques / coaches there. Kiriyenka won the stage, so pacing has a definite impact on this list.

That's a pretty big difference from the previous climbs to say the least! Very, very odd to see those times and power outputs from so many riders.

I don't see how all that can be attributed to rest day dodginess. Something else going on here...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That's a pretty big difference from the previous climbs to say the least! Very, very odd to see those times and power outputs from so many riders.

I don't see how all that can be attributed to rest day dodginess. Something else going on here...

Has tailwind been ruled out?

 

[Benotti69]

One of those who did more than JV was David Walsh, what is his standing currently in the clinic??

Its a fine line between hero and villain in your world, if RadioShack had given Floyd a job, none of this would have gone anywhere yet Floyd is lauded as a hero by many. Yes, a hero when he had no other options left. I respect what he did but that don't make him some hero in my book.

Ditto Tyler, I respect these guys but they got themselves into their own ****ty positions long before they outed Lance. Chances are if they had not ****ed things up for themselves and still had standing in the sport, they would have probably have done less than JV.

Who really had more to lose than JV, LeMond, the Andreus??? They got far more vindication when the truth finally came out than JV did.

Other than these people being vindicated by being right, what has it really done for the sport??? You guys are as cynical as ever and believe nothing has changed and doping is prevalent so what has all the crusading done other than take Lance down.

Betsy did more than Walsh( who was doing his job and doing it very well) and so did Emma O'Reilly, Swart, Landis. Landis had nothing to lose but he could've crawled into a hole and laid down to die.

Betsy, O'Reilly, Swart got vindicated, JV gets a big fat sponsor.

I am cycnical as ever. The Armstrong 'team' got booted out, but along came sky to replace them. What about Riis, Lefevere et al? These guys have not gone away you know and all over seen by the UCI led by puppet McQuaid with puppet master Hein pulling the strings from the shadows.

 

[sniper]

Betsy did more than Walsh( who was doing his job and doing it very well) and so did Emma O'Reilly, Swart, Landis. Landis had nothing to lose but he could've crawled into a hole and laid down to die.

Betsy, O'Reilly, Swart got vindicated, JV gets a big fat sponsor.

I am cycnical as ever. The Armstrong 'team' got booted out, but along came sky to replace them. What about Riis, Lefevere et al? These guys have not gone away you know and all over seen by the UCI led by puppet McQuaid with puppet master Hein pulling the strings from the shadows.

Armstrong Team got booted out, but many ex-USPS-ers have stayed in the game, notably also at Garmin.

(Just recall Prentice Steffen calling Weltz a corrupt doping facilitator back in the early 2000s I believe it was, and now they live happily together at Garmin, and Johnny is still denying...)

 

[ChrisE]

One of those who did more than JV was David Walsh, what is his standing currently in the clinic??

Its a fine line between hero and villain in your world, if RadioShack had given Floyd a job, none of this would have gone anywhere yet Floyd is lauded as a hero by many. Yes, a hero when he had no other options left. I respect what he did but that don't make him some hero in my book.

Ditto Tyler, I respect these guys but they got themselves into their own ****ty positions long before they outed Lance. Chances are if they had not ****ed things up for themselves and still had standing in the sport, they would have probably have done less than JV.

Who really had more to lose than JV, LeMond, the Andreus??? They got far more vindication when the truth finally came out than JV did.

Other than these people being vindicated by being right, what has it really done for the sport??? You guys are as cynical as ever and believe nothing has changed and doping is prevalent so what has all the crusading done other than take Lance down.

Nice post, but JV wasn't exactly busting down the door to tell all. He got sucked in when TH and FL talked. He even backed off the IM with FA when jammed 10 years ago.

 

[will10]

How's this for an average?

http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2096964#post2096964

22 riders above 6.00 W/kg for a stage 18 climb.

Remind me what Lemond was doing in similar circumstances?

Not a single Garmin or Team Sky rider though, so chapeau to their leading edge training techniques / coaches there. Kiriyenka won the stage, so pacing has a definite impact on this list.

17 minutes.....

 

[pmcg76]

Betsy did more than Walsh( who was doing his job and doing it very well) and so did Emma O'Reilly, Swart, Landis. Landis had nothing to lose but he could've crawled into a hole and laid down to die.

Betsy, O'Reilly, Swart got vindicated, JV gets a big fat sponsor.

I am cycnical as ever. The Armstrong 'team' got booted out, but along came sky to replace them. What about Riis, Lefevere et al? These guys have not gone away you know and all over seen by the UCI led by puppet McQuaid with puppet master Hein pulling the strings from the shadows.

Were Betsy, O'Reilly or Swart directly involved in pro cycling when they got involved in the Lance proceedings? No. Betsy only got dragged in because she was called as a witness in the SCA trial. Walsh went and found O'Reilly and Swart. If O'Reilly and Swart had still been directly involved in pro cycling, would they still have sung. Unlikely.

Again, I admire all those people but I am under no illusion either that if they had held a more relevant position in pro cycling, they would have been less than forthcoming as well.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

If O'Reilly ... had still been directly involved in pro cycling, would they still have sung. Unlikely.

Worth noting that Emma O'Reilly quite readily admits to knowing what was going on at USPS for the couple of years she worked their during the Lance ear. She left because she didn't like the situation that young riders were put under re having to choose between doping or not doping. She didn't appear to have any problems with the doping itself when undertaken without reservations.

Thus, it's unlikely she'd have "sung" whilst still at USPS.

None of the above justifies Lance's subsequent treatment of her, just in case anyone thinks it does.

 

[Von Mises]

jv1973 has avoided answering a lot of easy questions in here under the shield of his public personality.

Look whos talking?
Pretty much in every thread you lay down incoherent snippets, opinions pretending to be facts, plain trolling, but when somebody asks your sources, asks how to you back up your claims, asks evidence - you go silent, ignore, and only when pressed question after question, give some half baked answers.

 

[sniper]

Look whos talking?
Pretty much in every thread you lay down incoherent snippets, opinions pretending to be facts, plain trolling, but when somebody asks your sources, asks how to you back up your claims, asks evidence - you go silent, ignore, and only when pressed question after question, give some half baked answers.

 

[sniper]

I must have heard him make that very statement, qualified by "on average", at least a half dozen, if not a full dozen, times at the Armstrong Lie premiere.

Honest.

He said it on stage during the Q+A, and then afterwards as he made his way up to the waiting limo.

The interesting bit (for me) was the qualification, "If you look at the top performers, on average and not at the extremes, power output and speed are down" (forgive me if there is some slight paraphrasing in that, but it is pretty close if not exactly what he said multiple times)

So, who was he singling out 'at the extremes'?

Dave.

This is one of the bigger problems I have with JV.
if he were anti-doping, for real, he'd be expressing his concerns about how times on the extremes are going up and record times are being broken again.

instead he seems to constantly try and lull the press and fans asleep with a "it's all good, getting better" kind of mantra.

How do people who think JV is anti-doping explain this?

 

[Benotti69]

Look whos talking?
Pretty much in every thread you lay down incoherent snippets, opinions pretending to be facts, plain trolling, but when somebody asks your sources, asks how to you back up your claims, asks evidence - you go silent, ignore, and only when pressed question after question, give some half baked answers.

unless i am mistaken sniper is not running a world team and therefore not privy to what JV is.

The fans can only comment on snippets and voice their opinions.

JV has provided very little info in here. His recent silence has spoken louder about the doping in the peloton more than ever. The only comment JV has made was "I dont know" about Froome and that was on twitter.

 

[Benotti69]

Were Betsy, O'Reilly or Swart directly involved in pro cycling when they got involved in the Lance proceedings? No. Betsy only got dragged in because she was called as a witness in the SCA trial. Walsh went and found O'Reilly and Swart. If O'Reilly and Swart had still been directly involved in pro cycling, would they still have sung. Unlikely.

Betsy's life revolved around cycling. As you conveniently seem to have forgotten her husband and the income maker was a cyclist and wannabe DS who suffered hugely due to Betsy not letting go.

Emma O'Reilly suffered again a lawsuit. Not doubt a something in your opinion to brush off.

Swart did suffer from family and the media.

Walsh was handed these people on a platter, no digging was required to find them.

Again, I admire all those people but I am under no illusion either that if they had held a more relevant position in pro cycling, they would have been less than forthcoming as well.

And how did JV suffer for his part in all this? He seems to leading the kudos chasing.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Look whos talking?
Pretty much in every thread you lay down incoherent snippets, opinions pretending to be facts, plain trolling, but when somebody asks your sources, asks how to you back up your claims, asks evidence - you go silent, ignore, and only when pressed question after question, give some half baked answers.

Correct.
It is amusing that the same posters saying JV is not posting because he has something to hide, scared etc also completely distort and exaggerate what he actually says or does.

The best part is how they play hurt when their deceit is shown.

Armstrong Team got booted out, but many ex-USPS-ers have stayed in the game, notably also at Garmin.

(Just recall Prentice Steffen calling Weltz a corrupt doping facilitator back in the early 2000s I believe it was, and now they live happily together at Garmin, and Johnny is still denying...)

Hmm, while you are off finding the Iñigo San Millán wass Contadors Doctor link you might want to link to the above.
I do remember that Prentice did say that he knew Johnny doped, but I d'ont remember him calling him a "corrupt doping facilitator" - which if he was would beg the question why was he replaced by Bruyneel at USPS.

 

[sniper]

^

Steffen complained in faxes to Weisel that he was losing his job because he refused to allow drugs on the team. “What could a Spanish doctor, completely unknown to the organization, offer that I can’t or won’t,” he wrote, referring to his replacement, Ceyala. “Doping is the fairly obvious answer,” he said. He also warned that Johnny Weltz, the newly hired road manager, was a reputed drug cheat

http://www.businessweek.com/article...t-s-dot-postal-team-get-charged-with-fraud#p1

 

[Dr. Maserati]

^


http://www.businessweek.com/article...t-s-dot-postal-team-get-charged-with-fraud#p1

Thanks for proving my point:

"I do remember that Prentice did say that he knew Johnny doped, but I d'ont remember him calling him a "corrupt doping facilitator" - which if he was would beg the question why was he replaced by Bruyneel at USPS".

 

[D-Queued]

The Girona doping myth has been debunked a million times on here but he still keeps dragging it up. Anyone who ever read the USADA report would understand that doping took place anywhere and everywhere and Girona just happened to be where these guys lived.

Sorry to argue, but I don't know what you are talking about.

First, Spain was an open pharmacy.

While Girona is a nice place in Spain, and not too far from real mountains, there is more to its appeal than having the widest church apse, or simply being close to the Black Virgin of Montserrat.

Nearby Figueres, home of Salvador Dali, may be surreal but so is the suggestion that Girona didn't have special 'attractions' for its pro athlete guests. After all, a good business caters to its customers.

To appeal to potential residents, Rental properties in Girona were known to advertise their desirable locations, "close to popular training routes". Said "training routes" being a well-known euphamism for PEDs.

Where Spain may have tightened up its PED highway, Girona is also a long training ride, or short car trip, away from Andorra... well known for its lax PED policies and oddly, a common stop during the Vuelta.

Quick access from Girona to Barcelona's airport, and direct flights to Tenerife also come in handy when you need to go on vacation with your 'Ferrari'.

The timing of Lance's move from Nice, France is as noteworthy as its rationale. Girona may not have allowed him to reside in the host country of the Tour, but it was far more 'convenient', and a bit out of reach of the Gendarmes.

Dave.

 

[sniper]

Thanks for proving my point:

"I do remember that Prentice did say that he knew Johnny doped, but I d'ont remember him calling him a "corrupt doping facilitator" - which if he was would beg the question why was he replaced by Bruyneel at USPS".

i'll grant you that my representation was exaggerated,
but "he knew johnny doped" is quite the euphemism compared to "he warned that johnny was a reputed drugcheat".

and so the point remains: weltz still hasn't come clean let alone shown any repentance, and it begs the question why prentice is no longer concerned.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

i'll grant you that my representation was exaggerated,
but "he knew johnny doped" is quite the euphemism compared to "he warned that johnny was a reputed drugcheat".

and so the point remains: weltz still hasn't come clean let alone shown any repentance, and it begs the question why prentice is no longer concerned.

No, no - the only point is why did you feel the need to exaggerate?

If you are here to to impart your knowledge than it does not require dressing up, if you want to learn or find out the exact roles of people why not ask questions on the available info instead of starting from a false position?

And you wonder why JV doesn't bother to post or objects when you distort what he does or says?

 

[sniper]

No, no - the only point is why did you feel the need to exaggerate?

If you are here to to impart your knowledge than it does not require dressing up, if you want to learn or find out the exact roles of people why not ask questions on the available info instead of starting from a false position?

And you wonder why JV doesn't bother to post or objects when you distort what he does or says?

your underexaggeration was a tad more flagrant than my exaggeration. go back and check.
why are you covering for prentice/weltz under false pretences?

and so the point still remains: weltz still hasn't come clean let alone shown any repentance, and it begs the question why prentice is no longer concerned.