Klöden

[L'arriviste]

Alain Gallopin is treating the German press exactly how they deserve to be treated, with silence. They have nothing to say...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

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[jimmypop]

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[Benotti69]

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[flicker]

I puked.

For the umpteenth time: Why are Flicker and Polish allowed - time after time - to derail threads? If they're not mentioning Armstrong directly, they're "cleverly" baiting, will full knowledge that the discussion will turn to Armstrong.

The schtick isn't funny, entertaining, enlightening or even tangentially relevant. The moderation here is generally effective, so I'm still having trouble determining why Polish and Flicker still have posting privileges.

I am not here, to bait or entertain. I have a message. Cycling is a doping sport. The witch you speak of is gone. Please get over him. It is now an era of younger riders who hopefully will choose a better path. Cycling will never change until, the Olympics clean up(and I am speaking all sports here) and the drug testing and penalties are equal in other sports to what they are in cycling.
Check this out, Manny Ramirez, tested positive for steroids in 2003, no sanction. Tested positive in 2009, 60 game suspension. Tested positive in 2011, 100 game suspension. Total suspension for 3 positive drug tests 1 year. Why should cyclists quit when there are no drug tests(for PEDs) in the NFL or soccer? Sorry to derail this thread but I hope we are in agreement. Be proactive and sponsor and mentor some junior riders.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

This thread is about Klöden and by extension, RadioShack.

Do not mention Armstrong or Lemond again, or you will face the consequences.

Susan

 

[hrotha]

You can't separate RadioShack from Armstrong. It's artificial.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Koden - Radio Shack

Would we have this conversation if Kloden was on a team other than Radio Shack or previous Astana?

If he was still on Deutsche Telekom would the fever against him be the same?

In my opinion it would not be the same furious debate as it is now.

 

[roundabout]

Klöden is a weird one. I mean he rode for enough dodgy teams who generally kept performing (unlike Discovery in the 06 Tour) yet he only seemed to wake up every other year or so (or more) . Shows how much it's in the head.

 

[flicker]

I am sorry. Kloeden is a class act. If it effects the fans here that he races for shack, that is it sharpens their criticism of him, then it is a biased criticism.
As for being a product of GDR, Mr. Goberchov the wall must come down. The time of GDR sports schools is over. I applaud Kloeden and the shack team for their accomplishments this year.

 

[Zweistein]

This thread is about Klöden and by extension, RadioShack.

Do not mention Armstrong or Lemond again, or you will face the consequences.

Susan

It is about his extension? Apparently, you didn't bother to read the opening post.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Would we have this conversation if Kloden was on a team other than Radio Shack or previous Astana?

If he was still on Deutsche Telekom would the fever against him be the same?

In my opinion it would not be the same furious debate as it is now.

I'm not sure.
My feelings regarding Kloden and his "habits" stem from his days at Telekom/T Mobile.
He "luckily" dodged the bullet there, unlike most of his contemporaries, but his credibilty disappeared in Freiburg.

He dodged another bullet at "old" Astana.

Bruyneel more or less fell into his lap, to provide a safe pair of hands amongst other things.

The fact that he is attaining the best results of his career at an age when most riders have been out to pasture for several seasons, is rubbing salt into a wound.

He is a throwback. A walking billboard for the old ways and an obstacle towards change.

 

[jimmypop]

Sorry to derail this thread but I hope we are in agreement. Be proactive and sponsor and mentor some junior riders.

Jeebus I hope you're nowhere near junior riders, for a number of reasons.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Guys do you still believe that it's possible to win anything without drugs?
Of course Klöden is jsuted, like 95 % of the peleton.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I'm not sure.
My feelings regarding Kloden and his "habits" stem from his days at Telekom/T Mobile.
He "luckily" dodged the bullet there, unlike most of his contemporaries, but his credibilty disappeared in Freiburg.

He dodged another bullet at "old" Astana.

Bruyneel more or less fell into his lap, to provide a safe pair of hands amongst other things.

The fact that he is attaining the best results of his career at an age when most riders have been out to pasture for several seasons, is rubbing salt into a wound.

He is a throwback. A walking billboard for the old ways and an obstacle towards change.

Please notify me then, when THE change is happening. lol

Always impressive how people are able to deny complete decades of our sport. Wow. Should we be more ashamed of people doing that, or more ashamed of decades of our sport.
First one for sure !
Also impressive to see people taking the "old GDR product" and "Freiburg" bait.
German media and comissions did really good work there.
Believe me, all these things are too complex for you, especially for hating guys like MV.
It is really great to see Klöden win some more now, and Mr.Sinkewitz, the great pressured omerta breaker with alzheimer, now caught again, lol.
Patrick is an idiot, but somehow nice person and great rider anyway. But too nice and too stupid.

Just to add, I mean, that threadopener guy is one of most superfluous beeings in this forum here.
He is even surprised by Klödens performances and I am even disgusted by just seeing his avatar appearing. Says it all again. lol
Just keep on whining people. I really enjoy it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I'm not sure.
My feelings regarding Kloden and his "habits" stem from his days at Telekom/T Mobile.
He "luckily" dodged the bullet there, unlike most of his contemporaries, but his credibilty disappeared in Freiburg.

He dodged another bullet at "old" Astana.

Bruyneel more or less fell into his lap, to provide a safe pair of hands amongst other things.

The fact that he is attaining the best results of his career at an age when most riders have been out to pasture for several seasons, is rubbing salt into a wound.

He is a throwback. A walking billboard for the old ways and an obstacle towards change.

I can understand your points. I think maybe him being with Radio Shack adds more salt than necessary to that wound. Not just him being a doper but the fact that he is producing results within a known doping team structure.

 

[frenchfry]

Would we have this conversation if Kloden was on a team other than Radio Shack or previous Astana?

If he was still on Deutsche Telekom would the fever against him be the same?

In my opinion it would not be the same furious debate as it is now.

This is exactly what I was just thinking.

Too be honest, I have never liked Kloden even though I tend to like riders in his style. Something just not right, though I couldn't explain it.

Now that he is riding in the shadow of HWMBN, the line has been drawn between the haters and the fanboys and much of the discussion loses any rationality.

Must say though that the Hog is good at thumbing his nose at cycling. To quote one of my favorite Tina Arena songs, no shame.

 

[Cobblestones]

I can understand your points. I think maybe him being with Radio Shack adds more salt than necessary to that wound. Not just him being a doper but the fact that he is producing results within a known doping team structure.

Some types of doping produce permanent changes to your physiology. HGH can do that, for instance. So, if a rider has used stuff for a stretch of time, even when he's off now, he could still have an unfair advantage. I wonder if we see a bit of the effect here.

 

[Escarabajo]

Please notify me then, when THE change is happening. lol
Always impressive how people are able to deny complete decades of our sport. Wow. Should we be more ashamed of people doing that, or more ashamed of decades of our sport.
First one for sure !
Also impressive to see people taking the "old GDR product" and "Freiburg" bait.
German media and comissions did really good work there.
Believe me, all these things are too complex for you, especially for hating guys like MV.
It is really great to see Klöden win some more now, and Mr.Sinkewitz, the great pressured omerta breaker with alzheimer, now caught again, lol.
Patrick is an idiot, but somehow nice person and great rider anyway. But too nice and too stupid.

Just to add, I mean, that threadopener guy is one of most superfluous beeings in this forum here.
He is even surprised by Klödens performances and I am even disgusted by just seeing his avatar appearing. Says it all again. lol
Just keep on whining people. I really enjoy it.

????

Do you want us to close the Clinic instead? Should we just accept it and move on? Let's kill the hope of clean and talented new youngsters because you say it is impossible to change.

Tell us what your suggestion is please?

Thanks.

 

[sniper]

What happened to old school cheering?

Please notify me then, when THE change is happening. lol

Always impressive how people are able to deny complete decades of our sport. Wow. Should we be more ashamed of people doing that, or more ashamed of decades of our sport.
First one for sure !
Also impressive to see people taking the "old GDR product" and "Freiburg" bait.
German media and comissions did really good work there.
Believe me, all these things are too complex for you, especially for hating guys like MV.
It is really great to see Klöden win some more now, and Mr.Sinkewitz, the great pressured omerta breaker with alzheimer, now caught again, lol.
Patrick is an idiot, but somehow nice person and great rider anyway. But too nice and too stupid.

Just to add, I mean, that threadopener guy is one of most superfluous beeings in this forum here.
He is even surprised by Klödens performances and I am even disgusted by just seeing his avatar appearing. Says it all again. lol
Just keep on whining people. I really enjoy it.

just look at that foto.
It's basically the facial expression of every rider who wins: unable to really enjoy the victory, living with the lie, knowing it's a fraud, knowing he's a fraud. knowing he's defrauding. knowing the next day he might be facing a positive.

For the last ten years, I've only seen fake smiles on the podium, half-hearted smiles. Whether it's LA, AC, . Never any real pure joy, no more cheering of happiness.
Compare that with what we see in so many other sports. Think of a footbalplayer scoring a goal, or a tennisplayer winning the wimbledon final. It's been a long time since I saw a cyclist enjoy his victory that way.

Sad. It seems the public is (viz. we are) still loving the sport. But the riders themselves aren't.

 

[Benotti69]

just look at that foto.
It's basically the facial expression of every rider who wins: unable to really enjoy the victory, living with the lie, knowing it's a fraud, knowing he's a fraud. knowing he's defrauding. knowing the next day he might be facing a positive.

For the last ten years, I've only seen fake smiles on the podium, half-hearted smiles. Whether it's LA, AC, . Never any real pure joy, as you see it in so many other sports (think of a footbalplayer scoring a goal, or a tennisplayer winning the wimbledon final).

Sad. It seems the public is (viz. we are) still loving the sport. But the riders themselves aren't.

i always thought the exact same thing and figured it was the knowledge that they cheated so the celebration was forced, but thought it was my cynicism

 

[flicker]

????

Do you want us to close the Clinic instead? Should we just accept it and move on? Let's kill the hope of clean and talented new youngsters because you say it is impossible to change.

Tell us what your suggestion is please?

Thanks.

I would say, if you want clean sport, focus on Olympic track and field, weight lifting and gymnastics. Banging on Kloeden, Radio Shack, and pro cycling will get you nowhere. You have to start with the young olympians, and the up and coming amatuer sports athletes.
By the way last time I checked, Kloeden and Radio Shack/Bruyneel are not the spokesmen for pro cycling.

 

[sniper]

i always thought the exact same thing and figured it was the knowledge that they cheated so the celebration was forced, but thought it was my cynicism

It also explains why riders stick to their sunglasses even after the race during interviews.
It's not easy to fool someone and look him straight into the eyes at the same.

I've never seen a tennis player answering questions with sunglasses on.
Not saying tennisplayers don't cheat, but it's much less of an there.

 

[MacRoadie]

just look at that foto.
It's basically the facial expression of every rider who wins: unable to really enjoy the victory, living with the lie, knowing it's a fraud, knowing he's a fraud. knowing he's defrauding. knowing the next day he might be facing a positive.

Dunno. It's either that or the hat...

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

She was (is?) a beauty.

And Kloden looks absolutely stylish the way he rides. Rarely have I seen a rider which looks better on a bike. He could have "won" the 2006 TdF with better tactics. But of course, only with an asterisk to his name, like so many before (and after).

Isn't 2006 at the core of this.

Look at it this way in 2006 on the roulette wheel of doping:

Landis lost
Basso lost
Ullrich lost
(Not to mention others since then who have been popped).

And yet, in 2006 we know that Kloden was driving to Germany for blood transfusions, and yet his only punishment has been a fine.

And now, after doing very little for a couple of years (albeit having a waterboy for Dertie) he is suddenly climbing and TTing like he was in his 'glory' days.

Everytime McQuaid or someone claims that cycling is cleaner I feel that someone needs to show them a picture of Kloden and say 'Oh really?'