Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[bicing]

Armstrong stated at that same TOC press conference that Landis' time line was off. Can any confirm this? I read the e-mails and the dates -- year-wise -- seemed correct to me.

Hey I'm curious about that too. It's true he wasn't at the 2002 Tour de Suisse. Some other posters way back in the thread said that the email doesn't specifically say that it was for the 2002 Tour de Suisse, but unfortunately it definitely looks specific since the paragraph was under the "2002:" section. I was looking back to the Dauphine start lists and start/finish locations hoping that he'd mistyped 2002 instead of 2001 but... no...

 

[Francois the Postman]

From the BBC:

Armstrong has often been accused by his rivals and critics of cheating but has never officially failed a doping test and has always maintained his innocence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/8695890.stm

I love the way they put 'officially' in there.

And that 2002 TdS thing is still in there... that really bugs me as without it, it reads quite differently.

 

[Publicus]

Hey I'm curious about that too. It's true he wasn't at the 2002 Tour de Suisse. Some other posters way back in the thread said that the email doesn't specifically say that it was for the 2002 Tour de Suisse, but unfortunately it definitely looks specific since the paragraph was under the "2002:" section. I was looking back to the Dauphine start lists and start/finish locations hoping that he'd mistyped 2002 instead of 2001 but... no...

If you read the email paragraph, what Floyd is relating is the story that Armstrong told him in 2002 during the training ride. Armstrong was apparently warned by Ferrari to stop using EPO because of the new test, but continued. Apparently he returned a positive control at the Tour de Suisse that year, which was 2001.

Whether it is intentional or not, the UCI and Armstrong are misrepresenting what was said there.

 

[bicing]

If you read the email paragraph, what Floyd is relating is the story that Armstrong told him in 2002 during the training ride. Armstrong was apparently warned by Ferrari to stop using EPO because of the new test, but continued. Apparently he returned a positive control at the Tour de Suisse that year, which was 2001.

Whether it is intentional or not, the UCI and Armstrong are misrepresenting what was said there.

Perfect, then I am happy. That makes perfect sense, thanks for the clarification.

 

[euanli]

Ferrari saying that in 2001 would tally with what we know about improved EPO testing

 

[Anonymous]

Hey, have we had a comment from WonderLance on this yet? I am looking forward to that if I missed it...

 

[Publicus]

Armstrong couldn't continue, but this guy could:

 

[barn yard]

a few nervous riders in the bunch

 

[SpartacusRox]

Personally I think the reality of all this will be that Floyd will be discredited and life will move on.

From the press statements made this morning it is pretty clear that the Armstrong camp have a number of emails that will make Floyd look like he is trying to threaten them for his own advantage. That and the fact that they will play on the fact that his sudden change of story leaves him with no credibility at all will conspire to ensure that nothing comes out of this.

Additionally the UCI have already taken affront with his letter and won't want a bar of digging up the past.

Unless Floyd can come up with some good evidential proof this will be just another storm in a teacup and unfortunately for Floyd he will once again be seen as the loser, regardless of the veracity or otherwise of his claims.

All the excitement I have been reading on here about a Watergate type of blowup just will not happen. Far from people coming out to support him, I predict they will quickly distance themselves from him. Armstrongs comments about how Floyd is perceived, are like it or not right on the money.

I may be wrong, time will tell but I think that 2 months from now this story will be just more grist to the mill for the forums.

Oh, and if people think the ASO will stop Radioshack and/or Garmin from competing in the tdf, they are dreaming.

 

[Night Rider]

Of course people will still follow the sport, but many people want to see Armstrong race this year whilst he can still just about do it. I want to see this.

Why should a bunch of haters decide for me and everybody who is allowed to race? They're really selfish - they just don't care about the fans as long as they get their pound of flesh.

I don't think they're haters. I think they're are now proving to be realists.

I don't visit the doping forum that often but stories like this are worth the visit. It's just a shame Floyd doesn't have much credibility, he should give Stephen Swart a call and get him interviewed by the press to support his claims.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Armstrong couldn't continue, but this guy could:

Lol what a dumb post. A snapshot of an instant in time is presented as a determination of injury?? please...give us a break

 

[Boeing]

Personally I think the reality of all this will be that Floyd will be discredited and life will move on.

From the press statements made this morning it is pretty clear that the Armstrong camp have a number of emails that will make Floyd look like he is trying to threaten them for his own advantage. That and the fact that they will play on the fact that his sudden change of story leaves him with no credibility at all will conspire to ensure that nothing comes out of this.

Additionally the UCI have already taken affront with his letter and won't want a bar of digging up the past.

Unless Floyd can come up with some good evidential proof this will be just another storm in a teacup and unfortunately for Floyd he will once again be seen as the loser, regardless of the veracity or otherwise of his claims.

All the excitement I have been reading on here about a Watergate type of blowup just will not happen. Far from people coming out to support him, I predict they will quickly distance themselves from him. Armstrongs comments about how Floyd is perceived, are like it or not right on the money.

I may be wrong, time will tell but I think that 2 months from now this story will be just more grist to the mill for the forums.

Oh, and if people think the ASO will stop Radioshack and/or Garmin from competing in the tdf, they are dreaming.

Concur, Landis has screwed the pooch too many times and is chasing windmills at this point to be taken as credible and can not stand and deliver from a foundation of character

 

[RBcyclist]

Remember when Floyd was caught,

As you may recall, Landis was caught doping after pulling off a superhuman effort the day after a disastrous outing. Most people shook their heads, perplexed at the transparency of what he was trying to do. He seemed so stupid to even attempt such an obvious effort to cheat his way to victory. It could be explained by one word: desperation. It would seem that Landis is still desperate.

 

[SpartacusRox]

I think you might want to consider what forums like this really are. It is a form of entertainment. there is no journalistic moral code here. This is the last bastion where people can be stupid and not held accountable for posting the first thing that comes to mind. It is genius.

In other words you might be better served monitoring your reactions to things people say than what it is you think they said and what you think their intent is


all in the game

carry on

Lol Boeing, I like it. This is the best description of what these forums are about that I have read.

 

[red_flanders]

Floyd claims to have detailed records that he has kept from his youth. How did he get this wrong? He claims Armstrong bribed the UCI to cover up a positive result at the 2002 Tour of Switzerland. Armstorng was not at the 2002 Tour of Switzerland.

This is from a story on the Cycling News home page.
"The UCI refuted "the allegation that a positive doping result by Lance Armstrong during the 2002 Tour of Switzerland was concealed after an agreement was reached between the American rider, his directeur sportif Mr Johan Bruyneel and the former UCI President, Mr. Hein Verbruggen."
Cycling's international governing body pointed out that Armstrong did not participate in 2002 Tour of Switzerland."

He did not claim that. Re-read it. Inserts are mine:

2002: I was instructed on how to use Testosterone patches by Johan Bruyneel during the During the Dauphine Libere in June, after which I flew on a helicopter with Mr Armstrong from the finish, I believe Grenoble, to San Mauritz Switzerland at which point I was personally handed a box of 2.5 mg patches in front of his wife who witnessed the exchange. About a week later, Dr Ferrari performed an extraction of half a liter of blood to be transfused back into me during the Tour de France. Mr Armstrong was not witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test. He also divulged to me at that time that in the first year that the EPO test was used [2001] he had been told by Mr Ferrari, who had access to the new [clearly not talking about 2002 anymore, but the year 2001] test, that he should not use EPO anymore but he did not believe Mr Farrari and continued to use it. He later, [presumably the year 2001] while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with Mr. Vrubrugen to keep the positive test hidden.

UCI misdirection, aimed at attacking Landis.

 

[theswordsman]

Props to Tim Reynolds of the Associated Press for including this in the wire story:

Landis is part of a long list of former Armstrong teammates and former U.S. Postal Service riders who have either acknowledged or been caught doping.

Frankie Andreu has said he used EPO while preparing for the Tour de France on Armstrong's team in the late 1990s. Olympic gold medalist Tyler Hamilton tested positive after the 2004 Athens Games, kept his medal on what amounted to a technicality, then retired last year after telling the AP he knowingly took a banned steroid. Roberto Heras was stripped of his win at the Spanish Vuelta in 2005 and Spanish rider Manuel Beltran was kicked out of the Tour de France, both found to have used EPO.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gTXcchI4F_KsHgh6z6hEejZpAPPgD9FQS2E80

Blazing Saddles from the Eurosport UK site thinks McQuaid is doing a fine job and that people shouldn't muddy the waters of cycling.

A guy at Velonation came out in defense of leaving the past in the past. This was my comment there.

I disagree. When the Wall Street Journal story and ESPN interview hit last night, I went to the Cycling News forum instead of going to bed. I normally avoid doping conversations like the plague, but last night it felt like we'd received the news that there was a turning point in a war.
You say that the past should be forgotten, yet the riders names are still in the sport. It's been suggested based on his posted blood values (which are now hidden) that Armstrong might have used blood transfusions in the 2009 Tour de France. There's an ongoing police investigation in France because of illegal syringes and infusion kits found in Astana's medical waste. They have DNA markers from seven people. Seven of the eight riders who were on Astana's Tour team now ride on Radio Shack under Bruyneel.

"Cycling’s governing body is doing the best they can to protect the sport. " EXACTLY. McQuaid and the UCI want to make cycling look good, as does the ASO (that's why L'Equipe no longer researches and breaks doping stories). They much prefer that cycling give the impression of being clean than actually clean it up. If the AFLD wants to bust people, keep them from testing. Pretend everything is fine, throw cycling fans a few scraps, and take home your paycheck. This one won't go away. And I expect it will be French authorities doing the brunt of the work.

 

[Publicus]

Lol what a dumb post. A snapshot of an instant in time is presented as a determination of injury?? please...give us a break

that's the only thing i've seen of the crash-snapshots of an instant in time. He looks worse off than Lance IMO.

 

[Speedzero]

baseball analogy

In some of the (non-cycling) US sports boards I have been looking at, people are comparing Floyd to disgraced baseball star Jose Canseco. Canseco denied doping for the longest time, then wrote a book that was discounted by many as an attempt to cash in. He was viewed by most as a jerk.

The allegations in his book that have been investigated have proven to be true.

 

[danjo007]

I think you might want to consider what forums like this really are. It is a form of entertainment. there is no journalistic moral code here. This is the last bastion where people can be stupid and not held accountable for posting the first thing that comes to mind. It is genius.

In other words you might be better served monitoring your reactions to things people say than what it is you think they said and what you think their intent is


all in the game

carry on

are you trying to sound intelligent? your signature explains your position on the matter. unqualified to make any comment.

 

[Berzin]

Frank Serpico, the retired NYC cop who famously staged a one-man crusade against corruption in the police department never took any bribes, yet he was also an outcast and for his troubles wound up getting set up by his own partners and shot in the face during a botched sting operation.

Whether the whistleblower is a sinner or a saint, they are viewed exactly the same-as rats who spit in the soup and violated the code of omerta.

Landis' credibility or lack thereof means nothing. All that matters is whether he is speaking the truth or not.

 

[D Avoid]

RadioShack have 5 current employees directly implicated by Landis.

Are you suggesting that none of those five continue to support doping, despite their urgency to do it in the earlier half of this decade?

The same RadioShack, has a feeder team featuring some of the brightest talents in the sport - are you suggesting that doping influences on these talents are not a bad thing?

I personally know two of these people, one is already there

and the other is going. I'm horrified that two such talented

and decent young men are being controlled by these

monsters. There will come a point when things are not

going so well and the question will be asked, very subtly, by

the rider, not the DS, as to what can be done to improve the

performance, this performance was at one point the very

reason he made the team, it now being prefaced with the

word lacking, within no time from that time, these kids will be

the junkies of the peloton and I will be left to consider what I

now think of these former heroes. They have alreadyurpassed

most ofwhat our top domestic riders will achieve in the career,

but it wont dragthem to the dizzy heights that attract that

sought after hero worship, whichlooks and feels great to

everybody, except of course, to the receiver of the worship,

they know to much to make it a pleasent experience. It is just

horrible. I did loads of drugs, mostly easy stuff(if there is

such a thing), I never knowingly introduced any kids to drugs

in my life. Our so calledheroes do it all the time. I'm happy

to be rug free, I still have my magic carpet to fly around on. I

will e-mail the father tomorrow and ask him to talk the boy

out of it. Then I will jokingly send a message on off

yourfacebook, he might delete me but I wont hold it against

his almost pathological need to succeed. Their hopes and the

straws they grasp at arethe very reason drugs in sport do so

well/badly, you choose the word thatfits for you. I came

fourth tonight, no drugs, just loads of coffee, and I

deliberately didn't try to win the sprint as I'd not put in the

work for it. I was only trying to finish, I had that in spades,

first one I managed to finish this year.

 

[Boeing]

are you trying to sound intelligent? your signature explains your position on the matter. unqualified to make any comment.

alas to some it is more about the person than the process. I appreciate help making my points anytime however so thanks

keep policing the personalities on the web though. you are doing a fine job of that

carry on Governor


perhaps you are right my new sig is lame no a few hours old but wtf it was the first thing that came to mind this morning

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Frank Serpico, the retired NYC cop who famously staged a one-man crusade against corruption in the police department never took any bribes, yet he was also an outcast and for his troubles wound up getting set up by his own partners and shot in the face during a botched sting operation.

Whether the whistleblower is a sinner or a saint, they are viewed exactly the same-as rats who spit in the soup and violated the code of omerta.

Landis' credibility or lack thereof means nothing. All that matters is whether he is speaking the truth or not.

Of course it's about credibility. It's their only defense. Armstrong's statement is amazing. Despite explicit statements to the contrary, it's a carefully calculated ad hominem attack. It's all he's got.

 

[ChrisE]

If you read the email paragraph, what Floyd is relating is the story that Armstrong told him in 2002 during the training ride. Armstrong was apparently warned by Ferrari to stop using EPO because of the new test, but continued. Apparently he returned a positive control at the Tour de Suisse that year, which was 2001.

Whether it is intentional or not, the UCI and Armstrong are misrepresenting what was said there.

You know, if he paid off the UCI for the EPO test in June 2001, then I am sure that payoff had a "warranty" period probably at least until August.

The 2001 LA was the most dominant of all the victories IMO. He would just sprint away on the climbs. If the competition was off EPO and into a transition to other means, it would make sense they were down on horsepower while he raged with immunity. The difference between him and the rest that year was stupid.

 

[Publicus]

Of course it's about credibility. It's their only defense. Armstrong's statement is amazing. Despite explicit statements to the contrary, it's a carefully calculated ad hominem attack. It's all he's got.

That's what I thought. I would have thought he would have been a little more nonplussed about the whole situation. Try to hold back until he had more sense of the quanity/quality of the corroborating evidence Landis claims to have. One thing I'm curious about is if Landis didn't send these emails out, who did?

Cyclingnews you care to reveal whether these emails came from Floyd or another party? And for the record, Floyd claims he did not send these out, so really I want confirmation if that is true.