Leg strength

[CoachFergie]

If you want to improve your acceleration on the bike then just practice acceleration on the bike. Why do people assume that improvement in the stimulus for making the bike go faster for longer will come from a completely unrelated training stimulus???

 

[oldborn]

Hi there!

Well as i remember, and there is a lot of books and articles about it and all are similar but with diferent aproach, and there is no worse thing than combine two or three methods of training, rather stick to one of it, coz this is not pie in the sky, well you can find power for sprinters, and strenght as a different way to train. There is also diference in what muscle group you use in it, hills are perfect for all of them.

Power training is short max high int. training with minimal rests between series, per example 10x 30 sex max high gear 120-140 RPM-90 sec or so rest easy pedalling, and yes it is good to do leg strenght in gym with about 70% of max weight 20-30 reps.

Strenght training ( specific on bike and in gim) is little bit different let s say 40-60 RPM, someone say even 30 RPM, hill, small hill, or flat, medium time interval and it is depend for what are you train yourself, with longer rests between, per example 4x10 min. 40-60 RPM, 5min or longer rests between.

There is something between for short course triathletes per example 90 min. : 20 min warm up, 10x 30 sec max RPM 120-140, you should fly around 50- 60 km/h, i fly on rolers max 72 km/h, then you are dead, rests 90 or so sec.,
easy spinning 5 min, then 5x5 min. heavy gear, rests between 1 or so min.
then cool down for 5 or 10 minutes


Trashold training, it is something on the border aerobic-anaerobic, per example 3 hours small hills trashold sesion: 20-40 min. warm up 90-110 or so easy spining, 8x15min 80-90 RPM, rests 8 or 10 min between, 20min easy cool down. You can do a short aceleration on 3. or 5. hill to the summit, sitted or out of saddle. You should be feel little tired all the time but not going into red as power training for a single interval.

Aerobic traing level 1-3 this is most important thing, you should spent 70-80% time in season for that and even 90% in base and build up period.

Well first thing you should decide and set yours goals, if you wanna be like Cavendish sprinter you should choose those tipe of training. I think that for us is less relevant discusion about pro training methods, torque etc.

And i dont think that you should train only power without all types of traning unless you train for track 500 or 1000 m race!

As i said before gym training is good and must do, but this is personal thing.

Stay well!

 

[oldborn]

My babes

Well let me introduce mine weights as you see 2x20kg sand bags with wooden stick ( i have also 2x10kg), and kettle bell 12 kg. I made it for 20 GP, coz i do not want spend money on gym or weights, i can do it at home, and my wife love it!
Well you should have a good lift techniques for that especialy if you doing some dead lifting, kettle bell is crazy thing.
My winter base period bad weather strenght training is per example:
4x40 reps (10kg), rests is somewhere no less than 2 minutes
or 2x100 reps, than jump on the rolers and easy spinn 90-100 or higher for 45 min or so. I you can do hill specific strenght in winter it is excellent, but i can not, rarely. You should train your entire body and dead lift and kettle bell is good for that purpose.

Kettle bell well this is monster 20 or 30 min. training this is 12 kg relatively light muscle work but entire body is in motion, see Armstrong on the link, and then transform it also on rolers. As mine max 1 one rep is about is 130 kg squat, mine 70% is somewhere between 80kg, but i do max 40 kg, coz i am not ready yet for lot of reps with 70% of 1 max repetition.
I do not say that will work in your case but you can trie why not, it will not kill you!

Hope this help you!!
See Lance do it! kettle bell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omhfhrvn0Gc&feature=related
weight lifting for entire body this is important not just legs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM&feature=related

 

[CoachFergie]

Well as i remember, and there is a lot of books and articles about it and all are similar but with diferent aproach, and there is no worse thing than combine two or three methods of training, rather stick to one of it, coz this is not pie in the sky, well you can find power for sprinters, and strenght as a different way to train. There is also diference in what muscle group you use in it, hills are perfect for all of them.

There is a lot of opinion out there. Nothing peer review showing any real benefit. Hills are not perfect for them all. First thing every trackie does with a power meter is smack out some big power on the hills and then wonders why it doesn't translate into the same power on the track.

Power training is short max high int. training with minimal rests between series, per example 10x 30 sex max high gear 120-140 RPM-90 sec or so rest easy pedalling, and yes it is good to do leg strenght in gym with about 70% of max weight 20-30 reps.

And the evidence for this is???

Strenght training is little bit different let s say 40-60 RPM, someone say even 30 RPM, hill, small hill, or flat, medium time interval and it is depend for what are you train yourself, with longer rests between, per example 4x10 min. 40-60 RPM, 5min or longer rests between.

Is there something magical about riding at 30-60rpm???

As i said before gym training is good and must do, but this is personal thing.

??? Nice contradiction.

 

[oldborn]

Hey, that guy on video gonna call you and send you a copy of his personal medical chart and power otput measurment before and after gym, ok just wait coz he is on stage 6 i think but he promise me to do so.
Stay well my friend!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM

 

[CoachFergie]

That is your evidence? What next a video of Cancellara because you heard at one point he deadlifted 200kg???

 

[oldborn]

Hi there!

I guess he did not call you, what a shame, maybe he is looking for evidencies also.

Yes, in fact Cancellara also do a gym workout, and running during base period, 200kg this is maybe to much for him, coz he is a cca 80kg or so, i will say that 100 kg is optimum for 70% of his max one repetition for squat.

Well i must admit that evidences and studies of improve performance from gym work are relatively negative about it, but how many studies have shown that trained cyclists get significantly worse when they strength train?

You should not be so scinetifically geekopinion, as i said before those things for us are less important, just ride it and we should not make a latin language dissertation like Phd.

Well i hope this help you about it, for me those two top athletes are enough evidence.

P.S. If you have a chicken legs, squats and dead lifting can help, just send me a PM and i will help you arround this my friend.

Stay well!

 

[CoachFergie]

Yes, in fact Cancellara also do a gym workout, and running during base period, 200kg this is maybe to much for him, coz he is a cca 80kg or so, i will say that 100 kg is optimum for 70% of his max one repetition for squat.

Opinions of how someone trains or cherry picking what is reported in the media is hardly evidence.

You should not be so scinetifically geekopinion, as i said before those things for us are less important, just ride it and we should not make a latin language dissertation like Phd.

Well i hope this help you about it, for me those two top athletes are enough evidence.

P.S. If you have a chicken legs, squats and dead lifting can help, just send me a PM and i will help you arround this my friend.

Is pathetic insults the best and anecdote the best you can do? Let me know when you can come up with a decent argument.

BTW my legs are massive and one point I was leg pressing 400kg deadlifting 200kg like Fabian. I also produce more power and have more strength than Chris Boardman at his peak, yet I can't match their exploits, hmmmmm, I wonder why?

Funny enough for all my strength I'm a pretty crap sprinter as well. The Australian Strength and Conditioning Coach was far stronger than any of their World and Olympic Champion Sprinters yet could not come close to them on the bike.

 

[oldborn]

Ok, you are right, i give up.

Stay well Chris, what a joke!

 

[CoachFergie]

I knew I was right, thanks for the confirmation.

Yeah crazy, how can I be stronger than Chris Boardman at his peak (peak power <900watts and no strength in the gym) yet only be able to sustain his average power for the Hour World Record for 90 seconds. Guess Chris and Peter Keen knew a thing or two about sustained power vs peak power and the specificity of training.

 

[CoachFergie]

Yeah! But what was "under the hood" of Chris Boardman?.

When was the record set?. 1996. Just about around the same time EPO was booming.

Please note; He went a MASSIVE 4km longer in 1996 than his first attempt at breaking the record in 1992.

Put Boardman in the same world championship TT race in Medriso in 2009 & Cancellara would have blown his legs off trying to keep pace, just as Cancellara did to another TT specialist, Bradley Wiggins.

4km further in 4 years. Hmmmmmmm... Very impressive piece of big gear riding.

All speculation and I was still stronger and more powerful than him.

 

[CoachFergie]

4km.

WTF did he do, in terms of training for that?.

He was already an accomplished TT'er in '92.

Comes back 4 years later & adds A MASSIVE 4km.

Did he ride the Tour de France in preparation in 1993?

Did he use the Obree Superman position in 1993?

Did he have four years as a Pro under his belt in 1993?

Did he have the experience from two (or more) successful attempts under his belt in 1993?

Like Lance has he ever had a positive a drug test?

 

[CoachFergie]

Some shady a$$ goings on if you ask me.

I don't think anyone is asking you.

 

[CoachFergie]

You got any evidence or are you just spouting baseless allegations? How unique.

 

[CoachFergie]

Did he ride the Tour de France in preparation in 1993?

Did he use the Obree Superman position in 1993?

Did he have four years as a Pro under his belt in 1993?

Did he have the experience from two (or more) successful attempts under his belt in 1993?

Like Lance has he ever had a positive a drug test?

Was he using a SRM in 1993 or just doing intervals on the King Cycle?

Was the Manchester Track built in 1993.

Was he just doing miles in training?

Do you think Dr Peter Keen was aware of the principles of specificity and progressive overload?

 

[CoachFergie]

Does an already accomplished TT rider with an accomplished VO2 Max, increase his performance by 4km (clean?) within 4 years?.

A resounding.... NO.

Impossible. Boardman wasn't a pioneer, he did very little off the bike to help increase his performance on it.

Ummm, WRT this thread the lack of auxiliary training has been my argument all along.

An accomplished TT rider who then went Pro, stepped up his training and the level of racing, had 2 successful Hour record attempts and (here is the biggee) used the Superman position for his 1996 4km and Hour records. A position that allowed him to ride 4:11 for 4000m which no one has come within 3 seconds of in the last 16 years.

What you should be looking at is power output. An estimated 409watts in 1993 and 442watts in 1996 which is a 11 watt increase per year which is not unreasonable considering the above. This is lower than Rominger. More evidence for the position is that an estimate for Obree's 2nd successful attempt in 1995 was an estimated 389watts. Notable in 2000 when Boardman had to use a similar bike to Merckx he only added 10 metres to the record. Very likely he would have paced himself far better than Merckx who went out at speed setting World Records for 5km, 10km and 20km on the way to breaking Ritter's record.

All power estimations from Kyle and Bassett (2003).

 

[shanju2107]

The key trainings are the sustained 20 minutes at 85%+ MHR and 3 x 8-9 minutes at 90% MHR - the latter is particularly good, if you are fit with lots of miles in your legs you may surprise yourself at what you can do

is that true?

 

[CoachFergie]

11 watts per year is nothing amazing suspicious. You don't seem to be able to comprehend the benefit of riding the Superman position as was all the rage in 1996 till the UCI banned the position. Your 4km is a red herring.

 

[CoachFergie]

If the UCI banned the position, Boardman's time/distances shouldn't stand.

Cancellara can't use the position when he attempts the record, so rewrite the record books.

Its not a legit distance, if the UCI deemed it wrong.

His record does not stand, his 2000 record on the similar bike to Merckx was broken. Agree that his 4000m record should be removed because no one can use a similar bicycle.

 

[Bulldog Racing]

Great advice, I think the weight lifting should be a part of the program but the main focus should definatley be on the extented periods of riding at peak power.

 

[oldborn]

Ok Aussie we got the point Boardman is one and only and Lance and Cancellara are stupid and leg strenght addicts. Did you wrote something else except one man evidence asking question show on this days? Hey did Lance call you? Seek help!
Stay well!

 

[CoachFergie]

Yeah Aussie!!! Get some better anecdotes!!!

 

[Boeing]

Coach Fergie: all about calling people out, not about solutions to support her user name


for the record, my power increased and I became more efficient with lighter weight and longer reps. 20 reps x 3 and I eliminated the leg extension. heavier and shorter did not work for me and I am my own sample survey therefor I am right

 

[Tapeworm]

Data to back this up? Lab gas analysis? Power profiling before, during and after? No?

 

[CoachFergie]

Coach Fergie: all about calling people out, not about solutions to support her user name

for the record, my power increased and I became more efficient with lighter weight and longer reps. 20 reps x 3 and I eliminated the leg extension. heavier and shorter did not work for me and I am my own sample survey therefor I am right

That is truly pathetic. Ha ha works for me so will work for everyone

Sorry Boeing but that doesn't even get off the ground

Specificity, Progressive Overload, Individuality and Recovery