Male 100 Meter Sprinters

[Granville57]

here we go AGAIN with that lame of the lamest threads - the let's put it all in perspective thread.

All together now - "Cyclists aren't so bad. Look at what those guys in sport 'X' are doing and getting away with." Fill in your favorite hate-a-sport at the 'X'.
Guess this exercise makes some of you feel better...as I've said a million times, literally, pro cycling needs to focus on looking in the mirror, rather than looking over the fence at someone else's backyard...

A lot of pro cyclists are dirty cheats. Doesn't make them any less so just because others in other sports may be just as dirty...

This thread stinks, and will do nothing to further eradicate pro cycling's dirty little secrets and pervasive culture...

Your response is almost comical in its lack of insight. Did you even read the thread?
"pro cycling needs to focus on looking in the mirror"? Have you even looked at the giant mirror called The Clinic? Hardly any lack of reflection here.
Comparing doping in cycling to that in other sports hardly diminishes either. It expands ones awareness of the pervasive nature of it, and fills in pieces of the puzzle as quite often it is the same "doctors" and distributors plying their trade across the sporting spectrum. Nobody is here for therapy. And you?

 

[webvan]

Bolt does seem to be an exceptional athlete and doesn't appear to be doped up, time will tell. I'm glad I saw the 2009 finals, maybe we'll never see that again.

 

[fujisst]

Your response is almost comical in its lack of insight. Did you even read the thread?
"pro cycling needs to focus on looking in the mirror"? Have you even looked at the giant mirror called The Clinic? Hardly any lack of reflection here.
Comparing doping in cycling to that in other sports hardly diminishes either. It expands ones awareness of the pervasive nature of it, and fills in pieces of the puzzle as quite often it is the same "doctors" and distributors plying their trade across the sporting spectrum. Nobody is here for therapy. And you?

smoke and mirrors baloney...

OP could have simply said, "I think black guys dope too, not just us white guys - don't you?" Just forget facade. It's blatantly clear the intention of this lame thread...

 

[euanli]

We know that EPO and similar (CERA, blood transfusions) works for endurance events. The consensus is that those drugs don't help much for sprinting.

So what drugs are these track sprinters taking? And the obvious questions is, are the cycling sprinters also taking these drugs?.

Just a correction. We know from Dwayne Chambers' UKADA letter that sprinters are using EPO micro dosing to help them train in the similar way as Thomas Frei admitted to using micro dosing. It allows them to train harder daily without feeling too fatigued the next day.

Imagine doing hard hill reps every day for a week. The quality of the workout is diminished because you are too tired from the previous days work out. The EPO allows you to do it every day as if you had spent the last day doing a couple of hours in zone 1.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Most prolific sprint nation on the planet: Jamaica
As already mentioned, Jamaica has no internal testing.
They are not alone.
http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5630100-146/nigeria_makes_historic_medal_haul_at.csp

All good, so far?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/commonwealth_games/delhi_2010/9095226.stm

"Part of the problem facing Nigerian sport is that the country still does not have a domestic anti-doping agency."

 

[Roland Rat]

He runs at a higher cadence
all his competitors are lazy and fat and glug microwaved jars of nutella like water
his lactate threshold is higher
he's on the track 6 hours a day
he has the heart of a tyranosaurus rex
he was the first runner to ever use tri-bars
he has an oedipus complex
He sees a gynaecologist called Dr Lamborghini to keep him fresh downstairs

Anything I've missed?

 

[euanli]

he was the first runner to ever use tri-bars

I lost it when I read that.

 

[simo1733]

He runs at a higher cadence
all his competitors are lazy and fat and glug microwaved jars of nutella like water
his lactate threshold is higher
he's on the track 6 hours a day
he has the heart of a tyranosaurus rex
he was the first runner to ever use tri-bars
he has an oedipus complex
He sees a gynaecologist called Dr Lamborghini to keep him fresh downstairs

Anything I've missed?

Good points all.I think you will find that he also invented course recons.windtunnel testing and inventing stuff
On a more serious point,he deserves great credit for using his fame to bring about worldwide awareness of reggae and dancehall.Hear me now.

 

[The Hitch]

There's also a difference between being special and being by far and away the fastest of all time at every age from age 15 (and probably earlier) and up. You are grossly underestimating Bolt's talent by comparing him to Valverde and Lance.

He hasn't broken any "scientific boundaries". That's a ludicrous statement!
It's also clear that you didn't watch the 2009 worlds...

How on earth can you tell i didnt watch the 2009 worlds. THis statement is so stupid it either deserves either an apology or an explenation. a 10 second sprint shown ad nauseum around the world, you can tell i didnt see it because, ummmm,, well how??

The step from world junior champion - a title a lot of people have, to even world senior champion is huge. A lot of people are world junior champions, the next prodigy, and never make it. But even a year before his big breakout, people were saying Bolt is a 200m specialist, who should maybe focus on 400m. His pb was 19.93.

1 year later hes the fastest 100m sprinter of all time, on his 5th attermpt. He moves his 200m pb up from 19.93 to 19.3. People struggle to move their 200m pbs up by 0.05.
Meanwhile Bolt in a year has moved his up a massive, massive 0.6.

And never forget that every other person to come before this geneation of world records was also a talent and was doped to the gills. Only Maurice Green hasnt been caught yet. Lewis doped. Gatlin doped. Montgomery doped. Ben Johnson doped. And in a sport where people struggle for improvements of 0.01, up comes Bolt, breaks that by 0.1

And about every single one of them, your types would be saying "well he was a talent when he was a kid", or like michael johnson" all the previous guys doped, but its really great that this latest one is clean". Bolt is no different. Actually he is. The other guys made minor improvements slowly over the years on the mens 100m record.

Put it like this.

It took 16 years to get the world record from 9.93- 9.79. It took Bolt 2 years to get the world record down from 9.73 - 9.59

Thats what i mean about breaking scientific boundaries. people wondered when 9.7 would be broken and heavily doubted that 9.6 ever would. Maybe 20 years. uh uh. bolt only needed 2. No way did his success as a world junior champion suggest he was going to be capable of that.

 

[The Hitch]

He runs at a higher cadence
all his competitors are lazy and fat and glug microwaved jars of nutella like water
his lactate threshold is higher
he's on the track 6 hours a day
he has the heart of a tyranosaurus rex
he was the first runner to ever use tri-bars
he has an oedipus complex
He sees a gynaecologist called Dr Lamborghini to keep him fresh downstairs

Anything I've missed?

But unlike Armstrong Bolt doesnt claim to train harder than his opponents. He claims to be lazy, and to binge on fast food on race days.

In the Armstrong myth, Armstrong works, trains up the Alps, longer and harder than everyone, every day, letting his hatred of cancer push him through the pains.

In the Bolt myth, Bolt plays video games, eats chicken nugets, and pops out for a few minutes to win the olympic gold medal, do a few lightning bolt symbols for the fans, before returning in time to play his next match in his pro evolution soccer tournament.

 

[blackcat]

But unlike Armstrong Bolt doesnt claim to train harder than his opponents. He claims to be lazy, and to binge on fast food on race days.

In the Armstrong myth, Armstrong works, trains up the Alps, longer and harder than everyone, every day, letting his hatred of cancer push him through the pains.

In the Bolt myth, Bolt plays video games, eats chicken nugets, and pops out for a few minutes to win the olympic gold medal, do a few lightning bolt symbols for the fans, before returning in time to play his next match in his pro evolution soccer tournament.

Bolt claims to be hung like a giraffe tho, whilst StrongArm is happy to be hung like a eunuch.

 

[Fester]

See what Eufemiano Fuentes says on the subject:

"En una conversación posterior, el 26 de octubre, según consta en el sumario, precisan aún más la colaboración. Eufemiano le confiesa a Pascua que como ha habido tantos positivos de ciclistas -y le habla de Mosquera, de David García y de Contador-, ya no quiere saber "nada" de ese deporte."

Roughly translated:

"According to the summary, in a prior conversation, on the 26th of October, they need another collaborator. Eufemiano confesses to Pascua, that because there have been so many positives among cyclists -he speaks of Mosquera, David García and of Contador-, that now he wishes to know "nothing" about that sport."

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depo...intervenido/elpepidep/20110102elpepidep_1/Tes

 

[sheenyp]

There was an article in the Sunday Times a few weeks back where it claimed best possible performances in a number of events.
From recollection it said that the fastest possible time for mens 100m was 8.99s but also that this time would not be achieved for several hundred years.
They also had times for the marathon and strangely the 1 mile.

 

[Mambo95]

1 year later hes the fastest 100m sprinter of all time, on his 5th attermpt. He moves his 200m pb up from 19.93 to 19.3. People struggle to move their 200m pbs up by 0.05.
Meanwhile Bolt in a year has moved his up a massive, massive 0.6.

And never forget that every other person to come before this geneation of world records was also a talent and was doped to the gills. Only Maurice Green hasnt been caught yet. Lewis doped. Gatlin doped. Montgomery doped. Ben Johnson doped. And in a sport where people struggle for improvements of 0.01, up comes Bolt, breaks that by 0.1

.......

The other guys made minor improvements slowly over the years on the mens 100m record.

Put it like this.

It took 16 years to get the world record from 9.93- 9.79. It took Bolt 2 years to get the world record down from 9.73 - 9.59

I haven't quoted everything.

First of all the progression of the world record. Long periods were the record barely changes, if at all are common to all of the shorter distances and jumps in track and field.

200m Pietro Menna (WR lasted 17 years) Michael Johnson (12 years)
400m Lee Evans (20 years)
800m Seb Coe (16 years)
110m Hurdles Colin Jackson (13 years)
400m Hurdles Kevin Young (18 years and counting)
Long Jump Bob Beamon (23 years), Mike Powell (19 years and counting)
Triple Jump Jonathon Edwards (15 years and counting)
High Jump Javier Sotomayor (17 years and counting)
Pole vault Sergei Bubka (16 years and counting)

These records were set at various times from 1968-1996 and withstood advances in doping technology, with the absence of a 'killer' drug, like EPO.
World records in these events generally aren't set in steady progressive increments. They make sporadic big leaps forward.

As to Bolt. In 2007 he was considered to be underachieving. Partly due to injuries and partly due to preferring partying over training. No drugs can make the improvement from 2007-8. If they could, others would be taking them.

If Bolt's improvements are to be attributed to drugs, why are there no other athletes making these huge leaps forward? You can count on one hand the runners who have gone faster than Ben Johnson did in the 80s.

Sportsmen aren't machines. They don't operate exactly the same way every time. There have been many other examples of vast improvement in sport: Alastair Cook, Gareth Bale, Goran Ivanisevic, Lee Westwood, to name just a few.

The biggest factor is usually mental. It's a vastly underrated variable aspect of sport. I know from personal experience. As a teenage hurdler and sprinter, I went from being the reserve hurdler for the school team to running at the English Schools finals in the space of seven weeks. Physically there was no change in me at all. It was completely mental.

 

[The Hitch]

The biggest factor is usually mental. It's a vastly underrated variable aspect of sport. I know from personal experience. As a teenage hurdler and sprinter, I went from being the reserve hurdler for the school team to running at the English Schools finals in the space of seven weeks. Physically there was no change in me at all. It was completely mental.

First you say its about the track. Now your line is that is about mental attitude. Whats next. Probably that hes tall. Anything but the idea that the GOAT in a sport where all the other GOATs were doping, is ummm doping.

Why was that Justin Gatlin and that Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis and Montgomery doping. Stupid fools. All they needed was the right mental attitude.

Like i said you would have a point if he was barely beating these guys. If he got 9.79. You could say that the mental attitude was getting him those extra mili seconds.

But 9.59. nope. Never.

 

[Mambo95]

First you say its about the track. Now your line is that is about mental attitude. Whats next. Probably that hes tall. Anything but the idea that the GOAT in a sport where all the other GOATs were doping, is ummm doping.

Why was that Justin Gatlin and that Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis and Montgomery doping. Stupid fools. All they needed was the right mental attitude.

Like i said you would have a point if he was barely beating these guys. If he got 9.79. You could say that the mental attitude was getting him those extra mili seconds.

But 9.59. nope. Never.

The doping athletes you mention probably had a great mental attitude and had reached the potential. So they couldn't improve. Bolt hadn't in 2007 and therefore had room for improvement.

To you, the only explanation for variations in form is drugs. Anyone that has played competitive sport at any level knows that is nonsense. As I said, these are humans, not machines.

The track type helps to explain the difference in times between the finals in major championships (as cited in early posts), not the progression of an individual or comparisons between individuals.

 

[Hawkwood]

He runs at a higher cadence
all his competitors are lazy and fat and glug microwaved jars of nutella like water
his lactate threshold is higher
he's on the track 6 hours a day
he has the heart of a tyranosaurus rex
he was the first runner to ever use tri-bars
he has an oedipus complex
He sees a gynaecologist called Dr Lamborghini to keep him fresh downstairs

Anything I've missed?

Don't forget using a shorter left-hand leg so he can run the bends faster.

 

[Frosty]

How much have 100 metre runners' training plans altered? I cant help thinking that not that much would have changed in the grand scheme of things - training plans will have been refined, technique analysed more closely, nutrition more closely studied, but i cant help but think that the main thing is that you do a lot of sprints in training, some gym work etc. Therefore, increases in speed for a sprinter now, compared to a sprinter with the same potential 20 years ago, say, would not be that great? I realise that this is a very simple way of looking at things but how wrong is it?

Bolt does seem to have been an extreme talent from a young age but how is he so much better than anyone else - i have heard before claims that he can get up quickly for a tall man but surely other people would have been able to do this?

In distance events like the marathon then maybe increased understanding of nutrition would be helpful in overcoming the 'wall' - while in pro cycling an increased understanding of nutrition and recovery (quiet at the back ) must help with making speeds faster - the Alpe d'Huez test is dodgy enough and this makes it even harder to compare times to the 80s.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

How on earth can you tell i didnt watch the 2009 worlds. THis statement is so stupid it either deserves either an apology or an explenation. a 10 second sprint shown ad nauseum around the world, you can tell i didnt see it because, ummmm,, well how??

Maybe because he certainly didn't jog to any gold medal. He went all out.

The step from world junior champion - a title a lot of people have, to even world senior champion is huge. A lot of people are world junior champions, the next prodigy, and never make it.

Once again you're grossly understating Bolt's talent. He wasn't just a junior world champion. He was amazingly outstanding, not just in his generation but historically as well.

But even a year before his big breakout, people were saying Bolt is a 200m specialist, who should maybe focus on 400m. His pb was 19.93.

Yes, he was indeed predicted to be a 200/400 m guy.

No, his PB was 19.75. He ran 19.93 at 17.

1 year later hes the fastest 100m sprinter of all time, on his 5th attermpt. He moves his 200m pb up from 19.93 to 19.3. People struggle to move their 200m pbs up by 0.05.
Meanwhile Bolt in a year has moved his up a massive, massive 0.6*.

* 0.45

And yes, he took a massive leap forward which was emulated by half a million other jamaicans. Including a couple of oldies bouncing back from years of regression. Fishy indeed.

And never forget that every other person to come before this geneation of world records was also a talent and was doped to the gills. Only Maurice Green hasnt been caught yet. Lewis doped. Gatlin doped. Montgomery doped. Ben Johnson doped. And in a sport where people struggle for improvements of 0.01, up comes Bolt, breaks that by 0.1

And about every single one of them, your types would be saying "well he was a talent when he was a kid", or like michael johnson" all the previous guys doped, but its really great that this latest one is clean". Bolt is no different. Actually he is. The other guys made minor improvements slowly over the years on the mens 100m record.

Nah, I would say they are all talentless hacks in comparision.

Put it like this.

It took 16 years to get the world record from 9.93- 9.79. It took Bolt 2 years to get the world record down from 9.73 - 9.59

Thats what i mean about breaking scientific boundaries. people wondered when 9.7 would be broken and heavily doubted that 9.6 ever would. Maybe 20 years. uh uh. bolt only needed 2. No way did his success as a world junior champion suggest he was going to be capable of that.

Those predictions had nothing to do with any scientific boundaries.

His times as a junior suggest that he's EASILY the most talented 200 m sprinter ever. Make of that what you will.

 

[Roland Rat]

Don't forget using a shorter left-hand leg so he can run the bends faster.

thanks, I knew I was forgetting something.

 

[The Hitch]

Maybe because he certainly didn't jog to any gold medal. He went all out.

I said he jogged the semifinal

SEMI.

 

[Mambo95]

I said he jogged the semifinal

SEMI.

What you actually said was:

He ran/jogged his semi final in 2009 in a speed sufficient for a gold medal at most olympic and world championship races. He was messing around and it was still one of the fastest ever.

Yes, he certainly slowed up in the last 40m.

However, his time was 20.08. Which isn't one of the fastest ever as claimed. The 200th fastest time ever is 20.00 (IAAF rankings don't go lower I'm afraid). 69 different people have run that fast.

And while it would have been good enough for silver in 2005, it wouldn't have got a medal in 2004,2006,2007 or 2009.

 

[djlovesyou]

A big problem with Bolt for me is not simply that he smashed the records completely out of the water, it's that he did it alongside a whole bunch of other Jamaicans who emerged as world beaters at the same time he did. (A number of the female athletes sporting a delightful set of braces a la 80s Santa Monica track club.)

Checking out the progression of some of the others such as Shelley Anne Fraser and Melaine Walker. It just doesn't seem quite right.

 

[Cobblestoned]

He runs at a higher cadence
all his competitors are lazy and fat and glug microwaved jars of nutella like water
his lactate threshold is higher
he's on the track 6 hours a day
he has the heart of a tyranosaurus rex
he was the first runner to ever use tri-bars
he has an oedipus complex
He sees a gynaecologist called Dr Lamborghini to keep him fresh downstairs

Anything I've missed?

Yes, dear prayin hater.
Can you still sleep in peace as long as Lance Armschtrong is alive ?
Would be interesting to know.

Is it possible to discuss only one single issue here without a prayin hater marching in and turn it into an Armstrong hateparade ?
This is ill.

 

[BotanyBay]

Why, advances in training methods and nutrition! Simple!

USTF knew that Carl Lewis tested positive for dope during the 80's. Unlike Alexi's situation, Lewis' federation totally buried the existence of the positive. But back then, outside of the Olympics and Worlds, USTF controlled the whole sham process.

So the basic lesson to be learned is, so long as there is money to be made at the sport's organizational level, there will be doping corruption. Unfortunately, the athletes are the ones left exclusively holding the bag. That does not mean I think the athletes should be off the hook, but they should not be standing alone.