Michael Rogers after leaving Sky

[JimmyFingers]

Wealth or legacy? Which is the greatest motivator?

I wonder if Armstrong would trade the remaining money in the bank for the titles back, and the respect he once enjoyed.

Instead of a hero, history will forever remember him as a cheat and a bully. That is his legacy.

 

[Netserk]

Cyclists will choose wealth. So will many others too.

 

[hrotha]

Wealth or legacy? Which is the greatest motivator?

I wonder if Armstrong would trade the remaining money in the bank for the titles back, and the respect he once enjoyed.

Instead of a hero, history will forever remember him as a cheat and a bully. That is his legacy.

Without dope, he wouldn't have the wealth NOR the legacy.

 

[JimmyFingers]

a

And yet you voted that between 30 and 40 % of the pro peloton are dirty

Remind me when I did that? If it was before or earlier in the season, then I would change from what I am seeing now.

You would be stupid to believe no-one is doping, but I do think if they are it's a few desperate individuals, rather than systematic, team-wide doping. Fuentes, Padua, Armstrong and Rabobank are cautionary tales, surely riders and teams can see the bigger picture?

And if not what needs to be done for us to believe the riders? GEt rid of the UCI? THere are moves towards this, they must be sweating up there. Economic factoirs define sport, to be successful takes money, and to have money takes success. The beating heart of professional cycling is sponsorship,n lose it and the sport dies.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Wealth or legacy? Which is the greatest motivator?

I wonder if Armstrong would trade the remaining money in the bank for the titles back, and the respect he once enjoyed.

Instead of a hero, history will forever remember him as a cheat and a bully. That is his legacy.

Most riders performs very well when their contracts comes closer to the end.

Armstong wouldn't give up the cash, he has currently an endless stream of lawyers fighting to keep every penny of it.

Rasmussen was willing to admit doping to give him a better chance of winning a court case involving lots of cash.

Sorensen admitted to doping, when he was about to get the boot from his commentator job.

I am sure you can find examples of riders going for glory, but I'am not sure who.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Cyclists will choose wealth. So will many others too.

You can't say that of all cyclists, or any given demographic, people's motivations differ, and also change through time. Dude, I'm idealistic, I'll admit, this says the opposite of you, in a good way,made me smile

 

[JimmyFingers]

Without dope, he wouldn't have the wealth NOR the legacy.

A very fair point, clearly he was an extremely good responder and a user from a very early age so may have never been more than a domestique without the juice. He definitely choose wealth, but then he is a rather exceptionel individual, isn't he? No moral compass whatsoever

 

[Netserk]

Remind me when I did that? If it was before or earlier in the season, then I would change from what I am seeing now.

You would be stupid to believe no-one is doping, but I do think if they are it's a few desperate individuals, rather than systematic, team-wide doping. Fuentes, Padua, Armstrong and Rabobank are cautionary tales, surely riders and teams can see the bigger picture?

And if not what needs to be done for us to believe the riders? GEt rid of the UCI? THere are moves towards this, they must be sweating up there. Economic factoirs define sport, to be successful takes money, and to have money takes success. The beating heart of professional cycling is sponsorship,n lose it and the sport dies.

Less than a month ago.

 

[JimmyFingers]

You so sneaky, do we all get access to such data?

A month ago? Probably have changed my opinion from then, maybe about 20-30%

 

[Netserk]

Yes it's a poll where everyone can see what others have voted.

And it was more like three weeks ago.

EDIT: Link to poll result

 

[JimmyFingers]

Ok, but I'm waiting for you to make a point with this?

 

[Zweistein]

You so sneaky, do we all get access to such data?

A month ago? Probably have changed my opinion from then, maybe about 20-30%

Mitt, is that you?

 

[BroDeal]

Mitt, is that you?

LOL. Caught with his pants down.

Clean riders beating the others in a cleaned up sport? Nope. Not when 40% are still doping. Even he doesn't believe the BS he is slinging.

 

[xcleigh]

LOL. Caught with his pants down.

Clean riders beating the others in a cleaned up sport? Nope. Not when 40% are still doping. Even he doesn't believe the BS he is slinging.

'Clinic members lambast fellow member for changing mind on guessing game shocker' headline!!

 

[LaFlorecita]

20 to 30%? that is still about 1/4th. I always used to think the top riders were doping. So if they stopped, who's left? Some guys who are about to lose their contract so desperate for results, maybe. Is that 1/4th of the peloton?

 

[Netserk]

20 to 30%? that is still about 1/4th. I always used to think the top riders were doping. So if they stopped, who's left? Some guys who are about to lose their contract so desperate for results, maybe. Is that 1/4th of the peloton?

It's 7 riders per team. Average.

 

[LaFlorecita]

It's 7 riders per team. Average.

There are lots of domestiques who don't even get the chance to ride for themselves. I think about 75% are doping but I just wonder what Jimmy's thoughts are, how the hell does he come to 25% when the top guys are no longer doping I mean surely they have the most to gain by doping

 

[JimmyFingers]

Look this is all very flattering, that a question answered on the spur of the moment and also a complete guess is worthy of so much discussion. Do I think the peloton is clean? No, I believe there are still pockets of dopers at the very least. How many? No idea really, and even if I was to put a value on it it would be complete guesswork.

As would any of yours.

Classics aside, I have seen good competitive racing where various riders and various teams have been able to triumph. I find that encouraging, reassuring even. But please, feel to accuse me of talking BS or trip me up on something I answered a month ago rather than actually engaging in discussion.

 

[Benotti69]

Look this is all very flattering, that a question answered on the spur of the moment and also a complete guess is worthy of so much discussion. Do I think the peloton is clean? No, I believe there are still pockets of dopers at the very least. How many? No idea really, and even if I was to put a value on it it would be complete guesswork.

As would any of yours.

Classics aside, I have seen good competitive racing where various riders and various teams have been able to triumph. I find that encouraging, reassuring even. But please, feel to accuse me of talking BS or trip me up on something I answered a month ago rather than actually engaging in discussion.

It is a forum and most of it is guess work and opinion.

That you voted the way you did thinking it was anonymous says a lot about how you think the peloton are performing.

So Sky are beating a lot of dopers according to your thinking. How?

It is pretty obvious to me that Sky have their elite GT riders on a program as it is obvious other teams riders are on programs.

Time to stop the BS and either contribute to the forum as a whole or admit your just in here to obfuscate the Sky threads.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It is a forum and most of it is guess work and opinion.

That you voted the way you did thinking it was anonymous says a lot about how you think the peloton are performing.

So Sky are beating a lot of dopers according to your thinking. How?

It is pretty obvious to me that Sky have their elite GT riders on a program as it is obvious other teams riders are on programs.

Time to stop the BS and either contribute to the forum as a whole or admit your just in here to obfuscate the Sky threads.

No again, stop presenting this strawman for me, stop putting words into my mouth and misrepresenting what I am saying. None of that applies to me

 

[Benotti69]

No again, stop presenting this strawman for me, stop putting words into my mouth and misrepresenting what I am saying. None of that applies to me, just obfuscation on your part.

You voted 30-40% of the peloton doping.

 

[JimmyFingers]

You voted 30-40% of the peloton doping.

A month ago

 

[Benotti69]

A month ago

What has changed? You think it is higher?

 

[andy1234]

What has changed? You think it is higher?



Your contribution here is to defend the indefensible vision of Sky's domination.



When i see your contribution here, it mirrors what the Armstrong fans attempted and failed miserably at. Obfuscation.

Tell me more about this Armstrong guy.
I'm not sure I have heard of him, but he does seem to get mentioned a lot

Does he ride for Sky?

 

[JimmyFingers]

I just want a clean sport. Maybe if you get your head around that we'll understand each other better.