Motor doping thread

[TourOfSardinia]

Re: Re:

http://cyclingpro.net/spaziociclismo/altro/trovata-bicicletta-truccata-corsa-amatoriale/

Andreoli, 53 yo. Sad.
Like Femke, was already rumored to be on a motor.
Probably an old Vivax Assist on an Argon bike (the same bikes Astana ride, just for reference).
Was not caught with the i-Pad (which detects magnetism) but with a heat detecting device.

Starting to look much like regular doping now. Catch some small fish who don't have the resources to buy the good stuff and will bend over without singing.

 

[rekhyt]

Not sure why the UCI doesn't use scales to check the motors. Either the rear wheel or the frameset will be heavier if someone uses a motor.
If you see a strange weight, just disassmble the bike.
Plus you always have teammates bikes as reference and i doubt there's a whole team riding around with motors.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-amateur-denies-using-mechanical-doping/

Andreoli claimed he had bought the bike from someone in Tuscany while on holiday. He has reportedly won several races this season after rarely being in the results. He suggested that his rivals who tipped off the race organisers were simply envious.

“I don’t remember his name or his phone number. We met out on the road, I liked the bike, he asked a great price and so I bought it,” Andreoli said.

“I had a back problem and couldn’t move. I’ve solved the problem and I’ve been training well. It seems I’ve annoyed someone. They’re envious of my excellent lifestyle. I’ve been a tiler for a long time and earn a lot.”

:lol:

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

Has UCI ever actually shown a video of how their ipads are supposed to work. I mean showing a clean bike and then one with a motor in it. I don't recall. Only the stupid video of someone waving their ipad over the bike or in the detention tent which shows nothing.

The iPad sensor is a three-axis Hall sensor. A hall sensor detects magnets by passing current through a wire. In a magnetic field, electrons will be pushed to one side of the wire due to fairly simple physics. When that happens, a voltage is created between the side with lots of electrons and the side that has none. Knowing the current in the wire and the voltage across its sides lets you calculate the magnetic field strength. Put three of these Hall sensors in a package and you can measure the magnetic field strength and direction. BTW, Apple uses the AK8973 and AK8974 sensors if you want to look up the specs.

This is all fine and dandy and there are a billion apps out there that will do this for you. Ex: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magnetmeter-3d-vector-magnetometer-accelmeter/id346516607?mt=8

So you can locate magnets. Cool. So can you locate a magnet on a bike? Yes, in certain conditions. First, you need to calibrate your iPad. Place it somewhere there's no magnetic fields, metals, etc. This gives us the baseline magnetic field, which can be subtracted out. Zeroed,if you will. Next, you need to get fairly close to the magnet, since the field drops off quite quickly. For example, a 1 inch Neodynium magnet from 1 inch away has a field of about 50 mT. At three inches, it's about 1mT. At 5 inches, it's roughly 0.3 mT.

Okay, so can the iPad work? This guy tested the limits of the iPad to see if he could turn it into a metal detector. From his data, it looks like the resolution of the sensor is ~0.2 mT if it's been properly calibrated and is being held still. So that being said, I'd approximate that you'd have to be not moving and closer than 6 inches to find a bike motor. http://www.byteworks.us/Byte_Works/Blog/Entries/2011/11/30_Using_techBASIC_to_Turn_Your_iPhone_or_iPad_into_a_Metal_Detector.html

BTW, you need to be still because moving a Hall sensor in a field will add lots of noise.

So, is this what we see when the UCI guys check the bikes? Not really, no. They are mostly closer than 6 inches, but are waving the thing around. I also have no idea if they've been calibrated. Other problems include:

- Are individual iPads calibrated with an external source to ensure accuracy?
- Who provides the UCI with training on how to use them?
- If a race like the Tour has 180 riders, that means there's likely in excess of 300 bikes at the race. Even at 1 minute per bike, that's five man-hours of testing. Do they really do that?
- Given the size of derailleurs, it's almost certain that electronic shifting is done with a magnetic linear actuator.
- That means that every bike with electronic shifting has very strong magnets near the bottom bracket and rear hub - the exact place motors are supposed to be!!
- How does the UCI determine if a bike with electronic shifting has a motor?
- I wonder if the UCI knows about reluctance motors? They don't have magnets at all...

And so on...

John Swanson

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

Has UCI ever actually shown a video of how their ipads are supposed to work. I mean showing a clean bike and then one with a motor in it. I don't recall. Only the stupid video of someone waving their ipad over the bike or in the detention tent which shows nothing.

The iPad sensor is a three-axis Hall sensor. A hall sensor detects magnets by passing current through a wire. In a magnetic field, electrons will be pushed to one side of the wire due to fairly simple physics. When that happens, a voltage is created between the side with lots of electrons and the side that has none. Knowing the current in the wire and the voltage across its sides lets you calculate the magnetic field strength. Put three of these Hall sensors in a package and you can measure the magnetic field strength and direction. BTW, Apple uses the AK8973 and AK8974 sensors if you want to look up the specs.

This is all fine and dandy and there are a billion apps out there that will do this for you. Ex: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magnetmeter-3d-vector-magnetometer-accelmeter/id346516607?mt=8

So you can locate magnets. Cool. So can you locate a magnet on a bike? Yes, in certain conditions. First, you need to calibrate your iPad. Place it somewhere there's no magnetic fields, metals, etc. This gives us the baseline magnetic field, which can be subtracted out. Zeroed,if you will. Next, you need to get fairly close to the magnet, since the field drops off quite quickly. For example, a 1 inch Neodynium magnet from 1 inch away has a field of about 50 mT. At three inches, it's about 1mT. At 5 inches, it's roughly 0.3 mT.

Okay, so can the iPad work? This guy tested the limits of the iPad to see if he could turn it into a metal detector. From his data, it looks like the resolution of the sensor is ~0.2 mT if it's been properly calibrated and is being held still. So that being said, I'd approximate that you'd have to be not moving and closer than 6 inches to find a bike motor. http://www.byteworks.us/Byte_Works/Blog/Entries/2011/11/30_Using_techBASIC_to_Turn_Your_iPhone_or_iPad_into_a_Metal_Detector.html

BTW, you need to be still because moving a Hall sensor in a field will add lots of noise.

So, is this what we see when the UCI guys check the bikes? Not really, no. They are mostly closer than 6 inches, but are waving the thing around. I also have no idea if they've been calibrated. Other problems include:

- Are individual iPads calibrated with an external source to ensure accuracy?
- Who provides the UCI with training on how to use them?
- If a race like the Tour has 180 riders, that means there's likely in excess of 300 bikes at the race. Even at 1 minute per bike, that's five man-hours of testing. Do they really do that?
- Given the size of derailleurs, it's almost certain that electronic shifting is done with a magnetic linear actuator.
- That means that every bike with electronic shifting has very strong magnets near the bottom bracket and rear hub - the exact place motors are supposed to be!!
- How does the UCI determine if a bike with electronic shifting has a motor?
- I wonder if the UCI knows about reluctance motors? They don't have magnets at all...

And so on...

John Swanson

Thanks for the information John. So what does this make of the UCI guys on the motorbikes in the Tour de France and their testing devices from a few meters away? Is it a joke? Is it a con job by the UCI? Are they pulling our *****s ?

 

[Tienus]

Thanks for the information John. So what does this make of the UCI guys on the motorbikes in the Tour de France and their testing devices from a few meters away? Is it a joke? Is it a con job by the UCI? Are they pulling our *****s ?

Watch the youtube Cookson interview in the link posted by King Boonen today. Cookson is being asked if the Ipad is the most effective detection method.
In the same link from KB:
Barfield –who previously worked in the world of triathlons in Britain before joining the UCI, explained why he dismissed other forms of technology such as ultrasonic, x-ray and even thermal imaging.

At the time of the I-pad presentation the UCI did not intent to do testing with other methods. iirc it was ASO who anounced they wanted to perform thermal camera testing in the 2016 tour. The UCI then stepped in and decided it was the UCI who was going to do thermal camera and x-ray testing during the tour.

 

[DanielSong39]

Craigee, you just answered your own question.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Thanks for the information John. So what does this make of the UCI guys on the motorbikes in the Tour de France and their testing devices from a few meters away? Is it a joke? Is it a con job by the UCI? Are they pulling our *****s ?

The thermal cameras? They have a good chance of working, but only if they catch the moment that it's actually on. Let's say 5% of riders have motors and that they use them for less than 10% of a race (30 minutes out of a six hour stage). Let's assume you've been strategic and picked a place that riders are very likely to have them on. So that's maybe 2% using a motor at your inspection point. Depending on your vantage point, I'd guess only 1 in 4 riders will be "photo-graphical" in a way that lets you image the seat tube and hub. So now we're down to a 0.5% detection rate.

Now add in all the human factors such as observational fatigue, false negatives, the ability to identify the rider, etc I'd say that a determined effort is still unlikely to catch someone. And a determined effort isn't being made.

Now let's say that the motor user is smart and only uses it for small bursts, or efforts like in a crosswind where it's unlikely to be targeted a priori (think Cancellara). There's no way in hell you'll be caught with a thermal camera. A bike switch before the finish and you're clear.

John Swanson

 

[Craigee]

Re:

I'm more than happy to be in the 'most of them are doping' camp but the motors thing doesn't ring true....think about the logistics.

Doping is easy enough to facilitate as an individual, Armstrong used to take himself off to Ferrari's place, Froome disappears back to Africa by himself often enough to raise questions but motors require a conspiracy and agreement, not just asking a team but across rival teams and hungry rival riders.
We had an expression in my previous field of work:

Tell nobody and nobody knows, tell somebody and everyone knows.

In other words doing something nefarious by yourself and keeping it secret is easy enough to do but the minute you tell a trusted colleague or a best friend they also then tell their best friend or a trusted colleague until leaks appear and in the end the truth comes out.
Motors in the bikes would require mechanics to be in on the gig, the data/analyst guys to be in on in too, maybe the UCI, then teammates and even if a rider and his spanner monkey kept it between themselves the data guys would be staring blankly at their screens trying to work out why X-rider's bike spikes in power by 50 watts (or whatever) on each haute categorie climb, and then the offending rider has to make up reasons for his improvement that other riders will buy and his mechanic has to start acting very suspiciously so the other mechanics don't spot him stripping down a motor, and egos have to managed as rider-Z may have thought he was heir apparent to be the next team leader and GC contender but rider-X is now blowing everyone away, total team collusion in other words, and what happens when rider-Z (annoyed at not being leading the GC charge) swaps teams?...does he take his suspicions to his new team and tell them they will have to use motors to beat rider-X...that's now two teams in on it and so on and so forth until I suppose the whole peleton are in on it...with the associated mechanics, data guys etc...that's a he'll of a secret to keep...and during all this no single rider thinks to drop a rival in it like Armstrong is rumored to have done with his rivals, guys accustomed to winning just sit quietly and watch their careers get stolen from them?...at least with conventional doping in a perverse and bizarre way they all had access to EPO, steroids, HGH etc (the internet is a wonderful thing) if they decided to go down that route, what about the riders who are lacking charisma and aren't well liked in the sport?...are they supposed to have the ability to suddenly change character and conduct an elaborate mechanized doping program that they trust nobody will speak about or are they the ones shut out on the fringes while the rest of the riders enjoy the newfound motor doping?...they seen ideally placed to speak out and level the playing field back in their favor...who decides which rider will be in-form this year and get a pass to motor dope, do they all meet in secret at the beginning of the season and draw straws to divide up the Belgian classics to this rider, the GC tours to this other rider and the second half of the season classics to yet another rider...seems far fetched and again you're relying on ego maniac riders that wantv to win just rolling over and agreeing that Sagan can have it all this season but Kwiat must get a chance next and for 2018?....sorry human nature (and especially the nature off elite sportsmen) doesn't work like communism....and in amongst all this are reporters and journos desperate for a scoop, motorized doping would be a big one (probably the biggest of all, bigger than Lance) but I suppose they're in on it too and are happy to let the biggest story of their careers go by?...again human nature doesn't work like that, one story and one book with the required T.V. appearances after and they're set for life....or they keep quiet and accept an annual wage, the endless traveling and the lack of job security as newer younger journalists come up or the newspaper they write for goes bust...for motorized doping to be viable pretty much the entire sport and those reporting on it have to be in unison and agreement, no dissenting voices, all teams and riders have to be prepared to put aside personal rivalries and work in agreement as to who has motors and who doesn't and if the simple answer is that they all have them they why no pics from paparazzi, reporters, fans etc while snooping around the mechanics and the bikes... I know I'd happily post online (or sell) pics I had taken of a pro cyclists bike with a motor embedded in it's

If one gets detected at an elite level then I'll happily say I was wrong but for this to be 'a thing' that's regularly occurring at a world level too many people have to be involved for it to work smoothly and those that know would then have to be happy setting aside all personal ambition to allow order riders from their team (and other teams!) to take the spoils, I just don't buy it yet...it would take a culture change in both the sport and human nature in general to work.

All well and good except whole teams have been caught cheating and Armstrong's team got caught out years later. They were good at keeping it all secret. I can't believe the mechanics and nutritionists had no idea either.

 

[sniper]

Re:

...
Watch the youtube Cookson interview in the link posted by King Boonen today. Cookson is being asked if the Ipad is the most effective detection method.
In the same link from KB:
Barfield –who previously worked in the world of triathlons in Britain before joining the UCI, explained why he dismissed other forms of technology such as ultrasonic, x-ray and even thermal imaging.

At the time of the I-pad presentation the UCI did not intent to do testing with other methods. iirc it was ASO who anounced they wanted to perform thermal camera testing in the 2016 tour. The UCI then stepped in and decided it was the UCI who was going to do thermal camera and x-ray testing during the tour.

bingo. A bit like when UCI decided it was the UCI who caught Femke with their i-Pad.
A demonstrable lie.
But UCI can and will say what they want to fool the fans, and it usually works because the press won't challenge them on anything, and, as this thread shows time and again, despite the history of the sport, there are plenty of willfully blind fans left who feel comfortable taking everything UCI say at face value.

 

[sniper]

Re:

“We have looked at thermal imaging, X-ray and ultrasonic testing, but by far the most cost-effective, reliable and accurate method has proved to be magnetic resonance testing using software we have created in partnership with a company of specialist developers.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/19/sports/cycling/with-a-discreet-motor-doping-the-bike-instead-of-the-cyclist.html

 

[deviant]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

The guy with the device on the motorbike at the Tour was using thermal imaging, can't remember whether he was UCI or ASO though, the commentary team said the bike had been moving up and down the peleton most of the stage scanning bikes for areas on them that might be emitting heat from a suspicious source.
It seems a more efficient way of doing it than the ipad/magnetic field route as there's no reason to wait for the stage to end and spend 5 hours checking bikes, also suspicious bike swaps can be investigated straight away and riders can be caught red handed so to speak.

 

[sniper]

Pretty ridiculous last three kms of today's TdPologne stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy8tlWxEHVw
Look how long Sagan stays seated compared to the others with no or hardly any upper body movement, on a partially 17% steep climb.
Teuns and Kelderman also being pretty ridiculous there.

 

[Benotti69]

food for thought;

*** the Hypocrisy‏ @Digger_forum 56m56 minutes ago

So far motors have only been used by 19 year olds in cyclocross and 53year olds in masters - these elite are saints! above temptations

local(0)zero‏ @john_stone_john

Replying to @Digger_forum
All that R&D, quality engineering and product testing to sell two motors to Pa and John boy Walton. Varjas needs to do some proper marketing

Been said a few times, but worth repeating.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

The guy with the device on the motorbike at the Tour was using thermal imaging, can't remember whether he was UCI or ASO though, the commentary team said the bike had been moving up and down the peleton most of the stage scanning bikes for areas on them that might be emitting heat from a suspicious source.
It seems a more efficient way of doing it than the ipad/magnetic field route as there's no reason to wait for the stage to end and spend 5 hours checking bikes, also suspicious bike swaps can be investigated straight away and riders can be caught red handed so to speak.

You see a moto with a thermal camera working your group, you:

A - turn on your motor and give him a good look
B - turn off your motor and maybe have a bad day on the bike
C - demand an iPad check of your Di2

John Swanson

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-amateur-denies-using-mechanical-doping/

Andreoli claimed he had bought the bike from someone in Tuscany while on holiday. He has reportedly won several races this season after rarely being in the results. He suggested that his rivals who tipped off the race organisers were simply envious.

“I don’t remember his name or his phone number. We met out on the road, I liked the bike, he asked a great price and so I bought it,” Andreoli said.

“I had a back problem and couldn’t move. I’ve solved the problem and I’ve been training well. It seems I’ve annoyed someone. They’re envious of my excellent lifestyle. I’ve been a tiler for a long time and earn a lot.”

:lol:

Any Astana riders based in Tuscany?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

The guy with the device on the motorbike at the Tour was using thermal imaging, can't remember whether he was UCI or ASO though, the commentary team said the bike had been moving up and down the peleton most of the stage scanning bikes for areas on them that might be emitting heat from a suspicious source.
It seems a more efficient way of doing it than the ipad/magnetic field route as there's no reason to wait for the stage to end and spend 5 hours checking bikes, also suspicious bike swaps can be investigated straight away and riders can be caught red handed so to speak.

If he is UCI, he is not independent, so the thing is probably not switched on.

If he is ASO, well they and the French government ( who give $$$$s to ASO for TdF) will not want their showpiece event and biggest tourist advert sullied with motors in bikes, so not independent.

So a guy on a motorbike might as well be holding an empty shoebox and pointing it at bikes!

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

The guy with the device on the motorbike at the Tour was using thermal imaging, can't remember whether he was UCI or ASO though, the commentary team said the bike had been moving up and down the peleton most of the stage scanning bikes for areas on them that might be emitting heat from a suspicious source.
It seems a more efficient way of doing it than the ipad/magnetic field route as there's no reason to wait for the stage to end and spend 5 hours checking bikes, also suspicious bike swaps can be investigated straight away and riders can be caught red handed so to speak.

If he is UCI, he is not independent, so the thing is probably not switched on.

If he is ASO, well they and the French government ( who give $$$$s to ASO for TdF) will not want their showpiece event and biggest tourist advert sullied with motors in bikes, so not independent.

So a guy on a motorbike might as well be holding an empty shoebox and pointing it at bikes!

Well that's just it. Thermal camera, sure. But who interprets the data and flags a positive for possible motor? And then what's the protocol for identifying the rider and the bike? Can you imagine the tribunal that presents a thermal image? Rider says: that's not me. Prove it is. Case dismissed. That's not my bike. Case dismissed,

What if the camera guy flags everything as suspicious? Or nothing? The whole thing is stupid as is evidenced by the latest guy to get popped. All kinds of ridiculous defense, but so far we're lacking of any evidence. Show a picture of the motor at least. Maybe an iPad screenshot?

John Swanson

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

Has UCI ever actually shown a video of how their ipads are supposed to work. I mean showing a clean bike and then one with a motor in it. I don't recall. Only the stupid video of someone waving their ipad over the bike or in the detention tent which shows nothing.

The iPad sensor is a three-axis Hall sensor. A hall sensor detects magnets by passing current through a wire. In a magnetic field, electrons will be pushed to one side of the wire due to fairly simple physics. When that happens, a voltage is created between the side with lots of electrons and the side that has none. Knowing the current in the wire and the voltage across its sides lets you calculate the magnetic field strength. Put three of these Hall sensors in a package and you can measure the magnetic field strength and direction. BTW, Apple uses the AK8973 and AK8974 sensors if you want to look up the specs.

This is all fine and dandy and there are a billion apps out there that will do this for you. Ex: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magnetmeter-3d-vector-magnetometer-accelmeter/id346516607?mt=8

So you can locate magnets. Cool. So can you locate a magnet on a bike? Yes, in certain conditions. First, you need to calibrate your iPad. Place it somewhere there's no magnetic fields, metals, etc. This gives us the baseline magnetic field, which can be subtracted out. Zeroed,if you will. Next, you need to get fairly close to the magnet, since the field drops off quite quickly. For example, a 1 inch Neodynium magnet from 1 inch away has a field of about 50 mT. At three inches, it's about 1mT. At 5 inches, it's roughly 0.3 mT.

Okay, so can the iPad work? This guy tested the limits of the iPad to see if he could turn it into a metal detector. From his data, it looks like the resolution of the sensor is ~0.2 mT if it's been properly calibrated and is being held still. So that being said, I'd approximate that you'd have to be not moving and closer than 6 inches to find a bike motor. http://www.byteworks.us/Byte_Works/Blog/Entries/2011/11/30_Using_techBASIC_to_Turn_Your_iPhone_or_iPad_into_a_Metal_Detector.html

BTW, you need to be still because moving a Hall sensor in a field will add lots of noise.

So, is this what we see when the UCI guys check the bikes? Not really, no. They are mostly closer than 6 inches, but are waving the thing around. I also have no idea if they've been calibrated. Other problems include:

- Are individual iPads calibrated with an external source to ensure accuracy?
- Who provides the UCI with training on how to use them?
- If a race like the Tour has 180 riders, that means there's likely in excess of 300 bikes at the race. Even at 1 minute per bike, that's five man-hours of testing. Do they really do that?
- Given the size of derailleurs, it's almost certain that electronic shifting is done with a magnetic linear actuator.
- That means that every bike with electronic shifting has very strong magnets near the bottom bracket and rear hub - the exact place motors are supposed to be!!
- How does the UCI determine if a bike with electronic shifting has a motor?
- I wonder if the UCI knows about reluctance motors? They don't have magnets at all...

And so on...

John Swanson

Thank you for the clear, concise explanation.

 

[sniper]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

who interprets the data and flags a positive for possible motor?

That would probably be UCI technical director Mark Barfield who warned off Typhoon guy Harry Gibbings when the French police threatened to interfere. Or UCI technical advisor Dimitris Katsanis, who makes a living designing Team GB bikes.

All transparent and independent.
No conflicts of interest whatsoever.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It turns out the Italian Andreoli's bike not only had a motor it was in a fake Argon 18 frame made in China
- as reported by http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/01-08-2017/potenziate-falsi-telai-il-caso-bedizzole-ecco-come-dopare-bici-210693985518.shtml
which is in Italian and roughly translated here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gazzetta.it%2FCiclismo%2F01-08-2017%2Fpotenziate-falsi-telai-il-caso-bedizzole-ecco-come-dopare-bici-210693985518.shtml

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

1. So a Junior and Vet have been popped but nobody else is doing it
2. Surely they can fix imaging devices to a number of moto's on the race to record in "real time" from the front to the back of the race?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

1. So a Junior and Vet have been popped but nobody else is doing it
2. Surely they can fix imaging devices to a number of moto's on the race to record in "real time" from the front to the back of the race?

That would certainly be effective but incredibly costly. How many races per year are there? And you'd have to have several motos with thermal cameras to cover all the groups. Let's say that even after fixed costs such as the bikes and cameras, you'd still need to pay for someone to travel to the race and work. Let's say that's ~$2000 per person. Five bikes, each with a rider and cameraman, that works out to roughly $20,000 per race plus things like moto and camera transport, gas, maintenance, etc. So maybe $25,000 per race.

That would be upwards of $500,000 per GT. I'm pretty sure the UCI doesn't have that kind of budget, and I'm pretty sure the organizers aren't going to cough up the dough because they're already organizing for the press bikes. There's just no reason for anyone besides the UCI to pay for it and they probably couldn't even if they wanted to.

And that's why you have iPads. That can be done for a tiny fraction of the cost. Buy 100 iPads and spread them around to the comissaires with the instruction to have someone check the bikes. Probably someone who is already working the race. Effective? Doesn't matter. You've made a visible effort and saved upwards of $10,000,000 per year off your operating costs. Heck you even get good press out of it with photos and videos of guys waving them around! Turns out they're useless? Well, you had all those experts telling you they worked so you've got *plenty* of scapegoats. Plenty. Maybe even get a lawsuit or two out of it for damages.

John Swanson

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

The guy with the device on the motorbike at the Tour was using thermal imaging, can't remember whether he was UCI or ASO though, the commentary team said the bike had been moving up and down the peleton most of the stage scanning bikes for areas on them that might be emitting heat from a suspicious source.
It seems a more efficient way of doing it than the ipad/magnetic field route as there's no reason to wait for the stage to end and spend 5 hours checking bikes, also suspicious bike swaps can be investigated straight away and riders can be caught red handed so to speak.

If he is UCI, he is not independent, so the thing is probably not switched on.

If he is ASO, well they and the French government ( who give $$$$s to ASO for TdF) will not want their showpiece event and biggest tourist advert sullied with motors in bikes, so not independent.

So a guy on a motorbike might as well be holding an empty shoebox and pointing it at bikes!

Well that's just it. Thermal camera, sure. But who interprets the data and flags a positive for possible motor? And then what's the protocol for identifying the rider and the bike? Can you imagine the tribunal that presents a thermal image? Rider says: that's not me. Prove it is. Case dismissed. That's not my bike. Case dismissed,

What if the camera guy flags everything as suspicious? Or nothing? The whole thing is stupid as is evidenced by the latest guy to get popped. All kinds of ridiculous defense, but so far we're lacking of any evidence. Show a picture of the motor at least. Maybe an iPad screenshot?

John Swanson

X-ray

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-uses-x-ray-machine-to-search-for-mechanical-doping-at-the-tour-de-france/

 

[sniper]

From your link:

UCI technical manager Mark Barfield was at the Tour de France and supervised the checks, but he refused to speak on the record about the tests

Please search the thread (or the internet) for Mark Barfield, and you'll realize why his supervision doesn't bode well for the integrity of those checks.
And ask yourself why Barfield is still UCI technical director, despite what we've learned about him.

Plenty of other problems with the testing (e.g. Blem's presence there; the closed tents; etc.) have been pointed out by a variety of posters previously in this thread.

I'm also wondering why the CN article doesn't mention any of this, not even the Barfield controversy.
Unquestioningly lapping up what UCI feeds you, at this point in history, is just silly fanboy-typewriter stuff.