Motor doping thread

[Parker]

The main advantage of motor doping is exactly what we see here which is applying a slight enhancement of the power while the rider is sitting in the peloton. In that way he can spare his own power till later in the race. Motordoping is probably not suited for high power sprinting.

Riders aren't taking big risks to save energy in the Tour of Denmark. It's not a hard race

 

[topt]

Yeah, do you have any issue with the chest monitor sliding down or losing place? It’s weird because the wrist monitor is usually accurate but oddly goes haywire almost every time I’m on a sustained climb.

no, not really, it has an adjustable strap. I had some chinese monitor (Magene) before and it had kind of the same problems as yours, switched to garmin a few year back and it really works 100%, so i can only recommend it. Also tried to use a Garmin watch with wrist monitor for running and its very unreliable.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Riders aren't taking big risks to save energy in the Tour of Denmark. It's not a hard race

Do we know that it's risky to use a small motor in a bike?

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Do we know that it's risky to use a small motor in a bike?

If you value your career it is.

 

[Ripper]

The Katy Compton case illustrates why mechanical doping in the current professional peloton is so unlikely. Get caught doping, provide excuses, no matter how implausible, and there might be a shadow of a doubt. There is some ability, even if quite low, to deny everything. Explain it as a contaminated supplement or stake!

Get caught with a motor in your bike, your toast. No one anywhere is going to buy any explanation you have.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Weren't there rumors of Wonderboy Motor doping back then too(besides the obvious EPO stuff)?

 

[Bolder]

The Katy Compton case illustrates why mechanical doping in the current professional peloton is so unlikely. Get caught doping, provide excuses, no matter how implausible, and there might be a shadow of a doubt. There is some ability, even if quite low, to deny everything. Explain it as a contaminated supplement or stake!

Get caught with a motor in your bike, your toast. No one anywhere is going to buy any explanation you have.

Yeah, that's what I've long thought. Even if she lost her case, she might have won with froome's lawyers...but a motor? Instant suspension, no chance in the court of public opinion either.

 

[Nick2413]

Yeah, that's what I've long thought. Even if she lost her case, she might have won with froome's lawyers...but a motor? Instant suspension, no chance in the court of public opinion either.

I agree but knowing how things go I’m sure lots of people would buy that the team did it to the rider unknowingly or something along those lines. Never underestimate the gullibility of the average person.

 

[Ripper]

I agree but knowing how things go I’m sure lots of people would buy that the team did it to the rider unknowingly or something along those lines. Never underestimate the gullibility of the average person.

That gullibility, or even some ability to suspend disbelief, is why excuses to doping fly in the first place. But motor doping just makes it magnitudes harder to do. And that includes riders within the peloton. So other riders would completely crucify you or your team. Unless it's pretty widespread, I think you would be completely ostracized if you were caught. So the stakes are much higher than stuff you put into your body!

 

[jmdirt]

Weren't there rumors of Wonderboy Motor doping back then too(besides the obvious EPO stuff)?

I don't remember anyone accusing Greg of using a motor.

 

[Unchained]

I don't remember anyone accusing Greg of using a motor.

Not sure this is allowed..I watched a recent GCN video on the subject of tiny motors, tiny batteries, magnets on or inside wheels and coiled pick ups for induction charging. Even w most pro riders sharing a physique w eating disordered super models..torque looks to always be the issue..at any speed ..not enough torque potential..and fitting all the fixxins in the rear or front hub..talk about a tight fit!!
I have heard that Minnesota is known for moccasins and mini motors..not sure where Wonderboy is located? Aspen and Austin not known for much mechanical

 

[86TDFWinner]

I don't remember anyone accusing Greg of using a motor.

Ummm....Wonderboy is the uniballer, aka, Lanceypoo & yes, there were rumors of him having a motor in his bike(s)

 

[Ripper]

Ummm....Wonderboy is the uniballer, aka, Lanceypoo & yes, there were rumors of him having a motor in his bike(s)

Rumors are rumors. If the likelihood of motors in today's bike is unlikely just based on the technology alone, pretty sure pharmstrong would have had to have quite the obvious motor. Also, I'm pretty sure his ego couldn't have handled needing a motor to win. Rationalizing what you're doing can work with drugs and blood manipulation, less so when you're riding a motorbike in a bicycle race

 

[86TDFWinner]

Rumors are rumors. If the likelihood of motors in today's bike is unlikely just based on the technology alone, pretty sure pharmstrong would have had to have quite the obvious motor. Also, I'm pretty sure his ego couldn't have handled needing a motor to win. Rationalizing what you're doing can work with drugs and blood manipulation, less so when you're riding a motorbike in a bicycle race

Lol! You're probably right. I still think he would do ANYTHING to win(& his past has proven that), so him possibly having a motor in his bike to gain an edge, really isn't all that surprising or out of the realm of possibility.

 

[King Boonen]

Not sure this is allowed..I watched a recent GCN video on the subject of tiny motors, tiny batteries, magnets on or inside wheels and coiled pick ups for induction charging. Even w most pro riders sharing a physique w eating disordered super models..torque looks to always be the issue..at any speed ..not enough torque potential..and fitting all the fixxins in the rear or front hub..talk about a tight fit!!
I have heard that Minnesota is known for moccasins and mini motors..not sure where Wonderboy is located? Aspen and Austin not known for much mechanical

Not sure why it wouldn't be allowed. I've watched the video and it's pretty much a rehash of the discussions in this thread with less detail. Their conclusion that it's possible because some secret tech new motor might exist that people are using is extremely flimsy and this has been discussed here too. The markets for improved motors are much bigger elsewhere, so the chances of there being something secret in the bike world are tiny. If you could invent it you'd get much more money elsewhere. Also, if there were decent tech to reduce the size and weight of these systems, they'd already be in consumer bikes. E-bike sales growth is enormous and a step change in technology would be worth a fortune compared to the pennies a pro cyclist could pay.

 

[Cloxxki]

Not sure why it wouldn't be allowed. I've watched the video and it's pretty much a rehash of the discussions in this thread with less detail. Their conclusion that it's possible because some secret tech new motor might exist that people are using is extremely flimsy and this has been discussed here too. The markets for improved motors are much bigger elsewhere, so the chances of there being something secret in the bike world are tiny. If you could invent it you'd get much more money elsewhere. Also, if there were decent tech to reduce the size and weight of these systems, they'd already be in consumer bikes. E-bike sales growth is enormous and a step change in technology would be worth a fortune compared to the pennies a pro cyclist could pay.

Well, consumer bikes bikes want to have 150W all the times to appease the ultra lazy delivery boys, and for grannies to make it up decent hills.
A race bike with just 20W would make a nice difference. A 2170 cell can take about 20 kWh. So a whole hour that 20W.
If you consistently do Galibier in similar times, you're gonne set a good PB with that 20W extra. Battery is 70 grams.
I don't know much about motors but for 20W at 110 rpm, torque might be doable. And for a race bike, you can get into silver wire or magnetic wire, whatever helps, price doesn't matter much, only stealthiness at an output that makes a difference.
Of course I'd make it such that that motor would only engage when there is more torque applied than I could maintain for 3 hours. So, it only helps when I'm hurting myself. No hidden switches, just 20W when I need it most.
Now if 50W were doable, that's a friggin moped. That 70 gram cell could do that, for 20 minutes and change.
Oh, the algorithms I'd come up with the produce the ideal power output through a race. Different per stage. No need for uniform power output either. It could be +10% when over 300W for instance, with a max of whatever the system could deliver. You don't pedal 700W because you had an itch. You need the 70W if you can get them. 300W means that the hours hiding in the pack are over.

 

[King Boonen]

Well, consumer bikes bikes want to have 150W all the times to appease the ultra lazy delivery boys, and for grannies to make it up decent hills.
A race bike with just 20W would make a nice difference. A 2170 cell can take about 20 kWh. So a whole hour that 20W.
If you consistently do Galibier in similar times, you're gonne set a good PB with that 20W extra. Battery is 70 grams.
I don't know much about motors but for 20W at 110 rpm, torque might be doable. And for a race bike, you can get into silver wire or magnetic wire, whatever helps, price doesn't matter much, only stealthiness at an output that makes a difference.
Of course I'd make it such that that motor would only engage when there is more torque applied than I could maintain for 3 hours. So, it only helps when I'm hurting myself. No hidden switches, just 20W when I need it most.
Now if 50W were doable, that's a friggin moped. That 70 gram cell could do that, for 20 minutes and change.
Oh, the algorithms I'd come up with the produce the ideal power output through a race. Different per stage. No need for uniform power output either. It could be +10% when over 300W for instance, with a max of whatever the system could deliver. You don't pedal 700W because you had an itch. You need the 70W if you can get them. 300W means that the hours hiding in the pack are over.

Did you watch the video..?

 

[samhocking]

Well, consumer bikes bikes want to have 150W all the times to appease the ultra lazy delivery boys, and for grannies to make it up decent hills.
A race bike with just 20W would make a nice difference. A 2170 cell can take about 20 kWh. So a whole hour that 20W.
If you consistently do Galibier in similar times, you're gonne set a good PB with that 20W extra. Battery is 70 grams.
I don't know much about motors but for 20W at 110 rpm, torque might be doable. And for a race bike, you can get into silver wire or magnetic wire, whatever helps, price doesn't matter much, only stealthiness at an output that makes a difference.
Of course I'd make it such that that motor would only engage when there is more torque applied than I could maintain for 3 hours. So, it only helps when I'm hurting myself. No hidden switches, just 20W when I need it most.
Now if 50W were doable, that's a friggin moped. That 70 gram cell could do that, for 20 minutes and change.
Oh, the algorithms I'd come up with the produce the ideal power output through a race. Different per stage. No need for uniform power output either. It could be +10% when over 300W for instance, with a max of whatever the system could deliver. You don't pedal 700W because you had an itch. You need the 70W if you can get them. 300W means that the hours hiding in the pack are over.

The obvious component any e-bike should have is an inertia switch to cut power above a certain impact load. It's amazing people think motors can be retro-fitted into OEM hubs and frames reliably, yet these clever engineers never thought about cutting the power on impact lol! There's also plenty of frames being broken in two these days, it really would have exposed at least a battery cell, wires, controllers etc before now, yet nothing is ever seen, even by spectators right besides these bikes with their guts open on live TV.

 

[zlev11]

that leadout from quick step today was not normal. dropping the entire peloton off their wheel, wtf? convenient that they had two team cars and their bus parked right outside the 1km barrier, were they in range to active the bluetooth motor?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Lappartient:

We're still looking. We will not give up on the principle. We've also developed new technology. We have our big x-ray machine but it's complicated, it's a trailer, you have to lug it around. Now we have an x-ray system that's portable. It was used for the first time at the Olympic Games. You can take it almost in hand luggage. It is much easier to transport. We will be able to target even more things. The systems work.

I have asked that we go as far as the physical dismantling of the bikes, sometimes. We physically dismantled bicycles as in the Tour de France 2020 on two occasions, in the time trial of the Planche des Belles Filles and the climb of the Loze. We did it this year. We don't rule it out.

So far, we haven't found anything.

 

[King Boonen]

Lappartient:

He does realise we passed the 100-year anniversary of the invention of the portable x-ray machine about 10 years ago doesn't he..?

 

[steffr222]

https://www.velo-club.net/post/des-coureurs-pousses-par-les-motos-sur-un-chrono-en-ouzbekistan

Ffs

This was today’s result related to the article above:

The Tour Oqtosh - Chorvoq - Mountain 2023 Time trial results

Ulugbek Saidov is the winner of The Tour Oqtosh - Chorvoq - Mountain 2023, before Anton Kuzmin and Behzodek Rakhimbaev.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

I know it is going to be inconclusive but today contre la montre double miracle certainly revived sone suspicions I mostly laid to bed (along the lines of the arguments here) with regards to motor.

None of it can be verified and maybe I just lack the expertise but on its face it's hard to imagine that a couple of teams / riders have access to some exclusive medical regimen that is so much more potent than the rest bar some breakthrough comparable to the introduction of EPO ?

Genetics have been invoked. I am too much of a layman to understand those in detail (as in is it realistically applicable and accessible at current Oro sports level)... though I certainly reckon it is happening.

So I suppose I'm re-assessing the potential use of mechanical cheats, in theory.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

I rebrowsed some of the thread to make sure I was superficially up to date.

The question I would have :
There's been at least a couple of amateurs (or semi pro ?), one male and one female from my recollection, that have been busted for rigging their bike with a motor.
Do we have more documents of what it looked like and / or tests to assess how effective (if any) those garage jobs were ?

If it's already been addressed, I'd be glad to follow a link to relevant posts.

 

[ivanic]

I know it is going to be inconclusive but today contre la montre double miracle certainly revived sone suspicions I mostly laid to bed (along the lines of the arguments here) with regards to motor.

None of it can be verified and maybe I just lack the expertise but on its face it's hard to imagine that a couple of teams / riders have access to some exclusive medical regimen that is so much more potent than the rest bar some breakthrough comparable to the introduction of EPO ?

Genetics have been invoked. I am too much of a layman to understand those in detail (as in is it realistically applicable and accessible at current Oro sports level)... though I certainly reckon it is happening.

So I suppose I'm re-assessing the potential use of mechanical cheats, in theory.

mechanical cheats are very risky nowadays but I don't exclude magnetic wheels or similar