Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[DirtyWorks]

The conflicting and confusing statements by Verbruggen, McQuaid, Armstrong and Stapleton make sense

I think your conclusion is one possibility, but the fact that none of the four named persons stories compliment each other suggests to me, like Ashenden leaves it, that there are way more questions raised by the answers given.

If the known payments were part of a stream of payments, then the stories fit together better as all parties to the story are doing the equivalent of whistling past the graveyard.

Given how tightly Wonderboy is **STILL** bound to Pat and Hein, I'd say there's a much larger story still hidden. I don't know if buying the titles is that story, but Ashenden sets the story up right for some journalist to finish.

 

[thehog]

Wow, those were great segments. Good for NBC to be actually reporting the real deal after all these years. CNN is showing the Four Corners piece on StrongArm Saturday evening in the US too. Mainstream media is finally starting to earn their pay...

She's very saucy and smouldering.

I like a strong women. I'm scared of them but find them very alluring!

I just love the Bernie Madoff connection. That really hits home. Thats a message that needs to be repeated.

 

[DirtyWorks]

NOT A SINGLE WORD from LA's lawyers or spokespersons!!! Not one word??

Maybe they cut the billable hours credit account off at 7 figures?
Too busy trying to find other work to do to get the fail stench off their careers?
Maybe Wonderboy's backer Weisel is balking at the legal bills?

What would they say that would make a difference anyway?

 

[Microchip]

Nothing they say will make a difference. It's the silence that is telling. Aren't his still-supportive-fans anticipating a comment?

 

[thirteen]

The delectable Mrs. A on NBC:


http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rock-center/49562651/
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rock-center/49562754/

Well worth watching.

if anybody comes up with a feed of this that can be viewed outside of the U.S., please share.

 

[fatandfast]

Nothing they say will make a difference. It's the silence that is telling. Aren't his still-supportive-fans anticipating a comment?

Probably right. The 15 year anniversary speech was really weak. Armstrong looked shattered and like he downed a bottle of pills and bourbon to calm his shakes. His lawyers are probably staying really,really low key for lots of reasons but one for sure is the federal prosecutor. They are taking lots of heat for not pursuing Lance's case. There is twice as much new material in the case than at the start and there may be a new criminal tact they see. To keep saying that everybody has an axe to grind with Lance may make them mad enough to start sharpening one. Any civil cases against Lance have to be working 24/7 right now before he moves his cash offshore. SCA probably has 10 new witnesses that were not part of his first case.

he is making it a 1000% worse if that is even possible by not coming out with some reasoning that Barry,Julich,White and Kjaergaard would say the things they have at great personal expense. None of them were compelled by courts to do so,all of them were considered friends.

 

[pmcg76]

Probably right. The 15 year anniversary speech was really weak. Armstrong looked shattered and like he downed a bottle of pills and bourbon to calm his shakes. His lawyers are probably staying really,really low key for lots of reasons but one for sure is the federal prosecutor. They are taking lots of heat for not pursuing Lance's case. There is twice as much new material in the case than at the start and there may be a new criminal tact they see. To keep saying that everybody has an axe to grind with Lance may make them mad enough to start sharpening one. Any civil cases against Lance have to be working 24/7 right now before he moves his cash offshore. SCA probably has 10 new witnesses that were not part of his first case.

he is making it a 1000% worse if that is even possible by not coming out with some reasoning that Barry,Julich,White and Kjaergaard would say the things they have at great personal expense. None of them were compelled by courts to do so,all of them were considered friends.

I don't think Armstrong and Julich were ever friends, team-mates maybe but never friends. According to Tyler, Julich was choad No 1 in Lance's eyes and even before that revelation, I think it was well known they were not friends. Might have seen Lance doping at Motorola but where else?

The others I don't know. How much direct contact did Barry and White have with Lance at Postal, they were never on the A team so probably seen very little of what Lance got up, they probably knew and clearly know about doping at Postal but probably short on direct evidence. White did go and work for another choad, JV so probably ended up in Lance's bad book.

Kjaergaard claims ignorance of seeing other's dope but surely he is not telling the full truth. How much does he really know. These guys really just back up the idea that doping was rife at Postal rather than add any more direct evidence against Armstrong.

They do add more fire to the never tested positive means diddly squat argument.

 

[WinterRider]

Removed Twitter on Friday - end of news cycle.

PR til the end.

The 7 time winner tag was removed on Monday, after the UCI press conference, so not quite.

 

[Deagol]

NOT A SINGLE WORD from LA's lawyers or spokespersons!!! Not one word??

It might take them a while to sober up after all this recent news.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Maybe they cut the billable hours credit account off at 7 figures?
Too busy trying to find other work to do to get the fail stench off their careers?
Maybe Wonderboy's backer Weisel is balking at the legal bills?

What would they say that would make a difference anyway?

Que...

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1064631&postcount=203

 

[thirteen]

The 7 time winner tag was removed on Monday, after the UCI press conference, so not quite.

it's still there on his facebook page.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

it's still there on his facebook page.

He was no where near as active on there though, if anything appeared it would only be copied and pasted from twitter. He also never 'liked' anything on Facebook whereas he was quite active re-tweeting things on twitter.

Twitter is for a more selective club so I guess that appealed to Lance more.

 

[Tubeless]

I think your conclusion is one possibility, but the fact that none of the four named persons stories compliment each other suggests to me, like Ashenden leaves it, that there are way more questions raised by the answers given.

If the known payments were part of a stream of payments, then the stories fit together better as all parties to the story are doing the equivalent of whistling past the graveyard.

Given how tightly Wonderboy is **STILL** bound to Pat and Hein, I'd say there's a much larger story still hidden. I don't know if buying the titles is that story, but Ashenden sets the story up right for some journalist to finish.

There's also the alleged payment of $500,000 by Nike to Verbrueggen for help in approving the back-dated TUE at the 1999 TdF. If you think about the times Armstrong needed UCI's help, 3 payments makes sense.

We shall see how independent the commission is that was just ordered by the UCI management committee. Hope they will look at all the allegations but probably lack powers to get at any private funds transfers to Verbrueggen directly. In most organizations these types of allegations would be enough to oust the leadership - just not at UCI.

 

[agagner]

is lance waiting until the US elections to say something publicly? maybe hoping that the other news story will sweep his under the rug??

 

[Amsterhammer]

She's very saucy and smouldering.

I like a strong women. I'm scared of them but find them very alluring!

I just love the Bernie Madoff connection. That really hits home. Thats a message that needs to be repeated.

As author of the Betsy Andreu appreciation, and kinda lusting a bit, topic over in the Cafe, you will understand my frustration at being geo-restricted for the clips you posted. Any chance you could up them to youtube....and then also post the links in 'her' topic?

My appreciation would be huge!

 

[Pain Dane]

NOT A SINGLE WORD from LA's lawyers or spokespersons!!! Not one word??

Spoke too soon: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/...ely-to-withstand-doping-charges.html?_r=1&hpw

From today's NY Times:

"Mr. Herman said he expected many people to try to sue Mr. Armstrong. I imagine this group could include the dozens of cyclists, spouses and trainers whom Mr. Armstrong is said to have bullied into silence. That could chip away at his wealth, too, but Mr. Herman intimated that he did not think these people would have much success because Tailwind, the corporation that owned the team, was “the contracting party.”

This is another way of saying that Mr. Armstrong put a layer of legal protection between himself and the money."

Interesting. No more, "everyone is lying but LA." Now it is LA has been hiding his money for years and no one will ever be able to touch it!

What a bunch of crooks!

 

[DirtyWorks]

There's also the alleged payment of $500,000 by Nike to Verbrueggen for help in approving the back-dated TUE at the 1999 TdF. If you think about the times Armstrong needed UCI's help, 3 payments makes sense.

Again, it gets back to the way Ashenden closes his triangle, none of the actors (Hein, Pat, Bill(??) at CSE and Wonderboy) none of the explanations satisfies all four broken stories and now a third payment.

I'm just fishing for something that I know nothing about...

Meanwhile, Pat and Hein are still bending over backwards to protect Wonderboy. Whatever is not uncovered must be huge. My guess is Team Wonderboy bought the TdF wins.

 

[DirtyWorks]

This is another way of saying that Mr. Armstrong put a layer of legal protection between himself and the money."

Interesting. No more, "everyone is lying but LA." Now it is LA has been hiding his money for years and no one will ever be able to touch it!

What a bunch of crooks!

Welcome to 'merica!

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Anybody know when Bruyneel and co will be heard on appeal??

 

[Berzin]

World Cycling Productions had an advertisement on their homepage-

Lance Armstrong-Hero to Zero. All Lance Armstrong DVD's on sale.

Now they changed it-Hero? Or Zero? All Lance Armstrong DVD's on sale.

Wonder why they did this. Threat of a lawsuit from Wonderboy?

 

[AcademyCC]

Please Johan, please go away. Just drift off into insignificance. Take the hint, we've had enough. Just go away.

 

[Bosco10]

Does Johan still tout himself as "the mastermind"?

 

[Velodude]

Spoke too soon: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/...ely-to-withstand-doping-charges.html?_r=1&hpw

From today's NY Times:

"Mr. Herman said he expected many people to try to sue Mr. Armstrong. I imagine this group could include the dozens of cyclists, spouses and trainers whom Mr. Armstrong is said to have bullied into silence. That could chip away at his wealth, too, but Mr. Herman intimated that he did not think these people would have much success because Tailwind, the corporation that owned the team, was “the contracting party.”

This is another way of saying that Mr. Armstrong put a layer of legal protection between himself and the money."

Interesting. No more, "everyone is lying but LA." Now it is LA has been hiding his money for years and no one will ever be able to touch it!

What a bunch of crooks!

I think Mr Herman is fully aware that director Armstrong is personally liable for his own actions, like bullying.

If he claimed it was (unlikely) company policy endorsed by the Board he could seek indemnification from Tailwind for any claims that succeeded against him.

Problem is that Tailwind was only a shell of a corporation that ran at losses, those losses being funded by the wealthy investors, and Tailwind, I believe, no longer exists.

 

[Oldman]

Again, it gets back to the way Ashenden closes his triangle, none of the actors (Hein, Pat, Bill(??) at CSE and Wonderboy) none of the explanations satisfies all four broken stories and now a third payment.

I'm just fishing for something that I know nothing about...

Meanwhile, Pat and Hein are still bending over backwards to protect Wonderboy. Whatever is not uncovered must be huge. My guess is Team Wonderboy bought the TdF wins.

This is where Silvia Schenck could come in and shed some light on the overall operation. Lance might have been a "star client" but these guys have been running a long term shakedown with plenty of former clients. In the US (as bad as you think our litigation is Mr. & Ms. World sensibility) the RICO act would help disclosure and prosecution of a more widespread conspiracy and probably what the dudes in the Lausane office are scrambling to hide.
A year ago some of us were defending the disclosure of Lance's Big Adventure as beneficial to cycling. Fans said: "why dredge up the past without evidence? It can only hurt sponsorship and how would you tally the real winners...blah de blaheddy blah"...
The real hope was pro cycling would actually regain legitimacy as a sport, rather than a novel media spectacle. Would that hurt profitability and expanson in the current media market? Yes. It also wasn't promoting the sport many of us selfishly idealized into inspiring competition. I'm looking forward to what comes next.

 

[blackcat]

I think Mr Herman is fully aware that director Armstrong is personally liable for his own actions, like bullying.

If he claimed it was (unlikely) company policy endorsed by the Board he could seek indemnification from Tailwind for any claims that succeeded against him.

Problem is that Tailwind was only a shell of a corporation that ran at losses, those losses being funded by the wealthy investors, and Tailwind, I believe, no longer exists.

I see indeminification defaecation deification and indemnity a solid and liquid strategy, pillars and stools of their MO