• The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

Page 580 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

TourOfSardinia said:
aphronesis said:
Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.
Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.

That and the fact that Italy, in the face of an increasingly dominated Anglo market, just can't come to terms with the need for certain appearences. Ma che problema c'è?
 
Re: Re:

TourOfSardinia said:
aphronesis said:
Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.
Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.

Although I haven’t lived there in awhile, I’m aware of the Italian context and things change more slowly.

Italian reception is not really my point, flipping rhub’s post a bit, (and w/o riling anyone) it poses a problem for the new Anglo/Am narrative that wants to repress that decade and how it slots into the overall history of cycling
 
Re: Re:

aphronesis said:
TourOfSardinia said:
aphronesis said:
Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.
Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.

Although I haven’t lived there in awhile, I’m aware of the Italian context and things change more slowly.

Italian reception is not really my point, flipping rhub’s post a bit, (and w/o riling anyone) it poses a problem for the new Anglo/Am narrative that wants to repress that decade and how it slots into the overall history of cycling

Well without Italy having one Wold Tour team, it can only fall back on nostalgia. Italy is no longer a major financal player. Sure it has its World Tour events, its cycling history, but it has largely been relogated to the "picturesque" with Strade Bianche and this sort of Pantani festival. Italy simply couldn't keep up with the corporatization of cycling and its agenda to reach global markets. Practically no pro team is using Campi anymore, its all Dura-Ace. The days of Guido Bontempi are long a thing of the past.

Perhaps more then repressing the decade, as far as the current Anglo dominated narrative is concerned it's about a self-declared ethicalness (with Murdock media sponsorship in tow) to assume a leadership role of a movement in peril. In this sense the cultural parameters dovetale nicely into the business interests,

At any rate, you have to admire the candid sincerity of inviting Armstrong to a Pantani festival.
 
Re: Re:

MarkvW said:
Alpe73 said:
thehog said:
Alpe73 said:
proffate said:
Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.

On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?

Nominated for an Oscar. At least Fogel gets it. It wasn’t just the Russians, which appears to be the Anglo talking point to absolve of sins on earth.

Yep ... I thought it was a great documentary.

Ahhhh, ... yes. The Anglos. Waking up each morning with that Western Canon staring you in the face. What to do? The poor dears.

My comment re Outside Online over on Froome thread. What I meant was ... and FMK grasps this clearly, I must add. Yes, there was the pre-downfall fawning by OO and most everyone else in print, as you point out. Post downfall, OO wants to get their pious kick in and help in crushing Armstrong. Like good soldiers ... being made aware of the of the Livestrong collateral damage that was being perpetrated by them ... their notion ... eg. Gifford and Heard, is ... “war is hell.” TDF 2017 ... they’re best buds with Lance again. Hence the flip flopping observation ... which is not surprising from a publication whose main motivation is to make money. However, it surely does call into question their journalistic credibility/integrity.

In addition, one of their big ticket cycling/Lance items ... the Livestrong investigative article .... was such a weak, pallid, flaccid piece of shyte. Sure ... it was giddiness-inducing cannon fodder for the Clinic hyper-vigilantes (their impacted adenoid-toned voice imploring ... “Negatory ... they don’t do reeeeeeee-search ... reeeee-search.”) FFS. Throw them a fish, someone.

So whenever OO starts preaching the end of days .... don’t lose your mouthful of coffee over your laptop screen.

One good thing about cycling is that very, very few media outlets are dependent upon the sport for revenue. The reporters can therefore cheerily tout the superheroes on their way up as they record superhuman alien efforts, and then cheerily debunk the fraudulent cheaters as they plummet into the abyss.

Websites like this one have to be very careful. They are compelled by their business model to promote the sport, otherwise they'll help kill the goose that lays the (somewhat) golden egg. On the other hand, if they don't cover doping, they lose a lot of viewers to other outlets that give coverage to doping. This website artificially segregates doping talk from the racing talk (as if they were not inextricably intertwined in reality) so that they can maximize viewership.

Coverage of Launce has really illustrated this for me. Dungheads Phil Liggett and Bob Roll are the perfect example. Their economic self-interest had them honoring their hero long after his downfall was readily apparent to everyone else in the world.

Fans are going to love the sport, regardless of the doping. It is fun watching them argue with each other over whose self-delusion is the best. The ones who proclaim that they are not at all deluded are the best!



Amen to that!
 
I've recently watched again each of Armstrong crazy attacks from 1999-2005, most of them fit so well Varjas' story and the "140w for 5 minutes" in Brunel's book, I'm now SURE he did use a motor. Of course, this was on top of EPO/BBs/testosterone who allowed him to be in the front group.

But motor was the way to LEAVE the front group (and make them look like juniors), I'm now sure of that.

Sestriere 1999
Hautacam 2000
Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani
Alpe Huez 2001
Beille 2002
Luz Adiden 2003
etc.
 
Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Collab with Rapha... should make everyone happy. LeMond never had a collaboration with Rapha :cool:

25k1mrq.jpg
 
Mar 11, 2009
748
1
0
Visit site
Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

thehog said:
Collab with Rapha... should make everyone happy. LeMond never had a collaboration with Rapha :cool:

25k1mrq.jpg


They are paying to make their kit with Rapha ( who now offer custom it ) just like Castelli or Champ sys...

There was this Colab with Lemond .. long before Lance went down and while Greg was still out in the cold..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVRDoaIyLs
 
Re:

Gregga said:
I've recently watched again each of Armstrong crazy attacks from 1999-2005, most of them fit so well Varjas' story and the "140w for 5 minutes" in Brunel's book, I'm now SURE he did use a motor. Of course, this was on top of EPO/BBs/testosterone who allowed him to be in the front group.

But motor was the way to LEAVE the front group (and make them look like juniors), I'm now sure of that.

Sestriere 1999
Hautacam 2000
Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani
Alpe Huez 2001
Beille 2002
Luz Adiden 2003
etc.
There's exactly zero chance Phamstrong was using a motor because, if he had, there's exactly zero chance that someone (if not FLandis, Hamilton, or Andreau, then certainly his former mechanic, Mike Anderson [or all of the above]) would not have groused by now.

It simply beggars belief that he might have been using an electric motor but that his own bike mechanic and personal assistant not know about it, or that Anderson would not by now have blown the whistle.

If he had a motor, why didn't he use it in the ITT on Stage 12 in 2003, when he lost 1:36 to Ullrich and very nearly lost the TdF entire because he suffered too much from the heat?** You can't speculate that he would use a motor to create successes without also inquiring why he didn't use the same motor to stave off failures.


Pharmstrong's seeming indomitability in select mountain stages, IMHO, was down to four factors.

#1. Pharmstrong was coddled and his cheating turned a blind eye to by WADA, UCI and ASO. Because when he returned post-cancer to the European circuit, he brought with him something they had all coveted since the days of Jock Boyer: penetration of the American market. Even 3-time winner (and gunshot survivor) Greg Lemond failed to deliver on their hope, but Pharmstrong presented it to them gift-wrapped and tied up with a bow (without even having won his first TdF). Americans in their millions who wouldn't have known a bidon from a bidet or Charly Gaul from Charles de Gaulle were buying every bit of cycling kitsch in sight that bore either Pharmstrong's name or likeness or the Livestrong trademark.

#2. He had a superior doping program in the guise Michele Ferrari, who was -- pardon the pun -- at the "bleeding edge" of doping technology. And whose exclusive services Pharmstrong had retained.

#3. His entire team were better doped than any other team. USADA called it, "...the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen...." They were known as "the Big Blue Train" because when they decided to set the tempo for a stage, they were going to set the tempo for the stage. Period. Full stop. They could not be stopped because they collectively were too powerful. Such events were what Pharmstrong called his "getting out the hurt stick," an American slang reference akin to a jockey's "going to the whip," when he would don his patrón hat and exert his dominance over the peloton.

The fact that everyone on the team was doping not only improved their performance as a unit, it also gave Pharmstrong an added layer of security because their being complicit in the doping made them far less likely to grouse.

#4. The team itself were unusually well-optimised for the benefit of its captain. Yes, I know all the other teams also were "shields on me" around their star, but Motorola/USPS/Disco were setting a new standard.

For instance, Pharmstrong's teams were unusual in that they never carried a sprint specialist. Sprinters are useless in the mountains and so did nothing to enhance his chances of a GC win, so they simply didn't have one. Which means that when the mountains came and all the "Danger Men" began expending pawns in pursuit of the stage win, Pharmstrong essentially/potentially had 14% more pawns at his disposal than any opponent on a team that did have a sprinter. Plus, he enjoyed better protection in those dangerous final kilometers of a sprint finish because none of his eight teammates were excused duty from his protective phalanx.

And on any TdF featuring a TTT, Motorola/USPS/Disco were known to have invested more training time on team time trialing. Because Pharmstrong was one of the best ITTers and so sought to minimize how much time his less proficient teammates would cost him in the TTT.


Taken together, the latter two points meant that Pharmstrong was cosseted within the most powerful and best disciplined team in the peloton. It cannot be overestimated how much of his success was owed to the strength (and willingness to suffer) of his supporting teammembers, because that afforded him the greatest opportunity to "sit in" and expend minimum energies when the conduct of the race was business as usual.


Speaking specifically to "Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani," in 1999, Il Elefantino had been tossed out of the Giro (while wearing the pink jersey) because he was caught with an Hct of 52. He only just had come off of an 11-month suspension for that doping infraction at the start of the 2000 Tour.

OTOH, in the 1999 TdF, Pharmstrong had been caught using corticosteroids. And on several different stages, possibly as many as six. Yet all his indiscretions were swept under the rug.

So what you are seeing on that stage on the Ventoux in 2000 is not a contest among equals, it is a contest between a man who doped with impunity because the sport's overlords protected him versus a man who doped with circumspection because he was under elevated scrutiny.



Most days, Pharmstrong cruised in the luxury of the Big Blue Train's first-class cabin. But whenever circumstance or strategy dictated that he personally lead the attack, Pharmstrong was not just the best-doped rider in the contest, he almost without exception also the best-rested. His seemingly superhuman performances weren't down to one motor that ran on electricity, they were down to nine motors powered by EPO.



** It bears mention that FLandis was there on that day in 2003. And I can't help but think that might have been the spark of the idea to use the heat to his advantage on the occasion of 2006's infamous Stage 17, which he gambled he could overcome by spending the entire stage "off the front," where he would have near unlimited access to water.
 
Re: Re:

StyrbjornSterki said:
Gregga said:
I've recently watched again each of Armstrong crazy attacks from 1999-2005, most of them fit so well Varjas' story and the "140w for 5 minutes" in Brunel's book, I'm now SURE he did use a motor. Of course, this was on top of EPO/BBs/testosterone who allowed him to be in the front group.

But motor was the way to LEAVE the front group (and make them look like juniors), I'm now sure of that.

Sestriere 1999
Hautacam 2000
Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani
Alpe Huez 2001
Beille 2002
Luz Adiden 2003
etc.
There's exactly zero chance Phamstrong was using a motor because, if he had, there's exactly zero chance that someone (if not FLandis, Hamilton, or Andreau, then certainly his former mechanic, Mike Anderson [or all of the above]) would not have groused by now.

It simply beggars belief that he might have been using an electric motor but that his own bike mechanic and personal assistant not know about it, or that Anderson would not by now have blown the whistle.

If he had a motor, why didn't he use it in the ITT on Stage 12 in 2003, when he lost 1:36 to Ullrich and very nearly lost the TdF entire because he suffered too much from the heat?** You can't speculate that he would use a motor to create successes without also inquiring why he didn't use the same motor to stave off failures.


Pharmstrong's seeming indomitability in select mountain stages, IMHO, was down to four factors.

#1. Pharmstrong was coddled and his cheating turned a blind eye to by WADA, UCI and ASO. Because when he returned post-cancer to the European circuit, he brought with him something they had all coveted since the days of Jock Boyer: penetration of the American market. Even 3-time winner (and gunshot survivor) Greg Lemond failed to deliver on their hope, but Pharmstrong presented it to them gift-wrapped and tied up with a bow (without even having won his first TdF). Americans in their millions who wouldn't have known a bidon from a bidet or Charly Gaul from Charles de Gaulle were buying every bit of cycling kitsch in sight that bore either Pharmstrong's name or likeness or the Livestrong trademark.

#2. He had a superior doping program in the guise Michele Ferrari, who was -- pardon the pun -- at the "bleeding edge" of doping technology. And whose exclusive services Pharmstrong had retained.

#3. His entire team were better doped than any other team. USADA called it, "...the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen...." They were known as "the Big Blue Train" because when they decided to set the tempo for a stage, they were going to set the tempo for the stage. Period. Full stop. They could not be stopped because they collectively were too powerful. Such events were what Pharmstrong called his "getting out the hurt stick," an American slang reference akin to a jockey's "going to the whip," when he would don his patrón hat and exert his dominance over the peloton.

The fact that everyone on the team was doping not only improved their performance as a unit, it also gave Pharmstrong an added layer of security because their being complicit in the doping made them far less likely to grouse.

#4. The team itself were unusually well-optimised for the benefit of its captain. Yes, I know all the other teams also were "shields on me" around their star, but Motorola/USPS/Disco were setting a new standard.

For instance, Pharmstrong's teams were unusual in that they never carried a sprint specialist. Sprinters are useless in the mountains and so did nothing to enhance his chances of a GC win, so they simply didn't have one. Which means that when the mountains came and all the "Danger Men" began expending pawns in pursuit of the stage win, Pharmstrong essentially/potentially had 14% more pawns at his disposal than any opponent on a team that did have a sprinter. Plus, he enjoyed better protection in those dangerous final kilometers of a sprint finish because none of his eight teammates were excused duty from his protective phalanx.

And on any TdF featuring a TTT, Motorola/USPS/Disco were known to have invested more training time on team time trialing. Because Pharmstrong was one of the best ITTers and so sought to minimize how much time his less proficient teammates would cost him in the TTT.


Taken together, the latter two points meant that Pharmstrong was cosseted within the most powerful and best disciplined team in the peloton. It cannot be overestimated how much of his success was owed to the strength (and willingness to suffer) of his supporting teammembers, because that afforded him the greatest opportunity to "sit in" and expend minimum energies when the conduct of the race was business as usual.


Speaking specifically to "Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani," in 1999, Il Elefantino had been tossed out of the Giro (while wearing the pink jersey) because he was caught with an Hct of 52. He only just had come off of an 11-month suspension for that doping infraction at the start of the 2000 Tour.

OTOH, in the 1999 TdF, Pharmstrong had been caught using corticosteroids. And on several different stages, possibly as many as six. Yet all his indiscretions were swept under the rug.

So what you are seeing on that stage on the Ventoux in 2000 is not a contest among equals, it is a contest between a man who doped with impunity because the sport's overlords protected him versus a man who doped with circumspection because he was under elevated scrutiny.



Most days, Pharmstrong cruised in the luxury of the Big Blue Train's first-class cabin. But whenever circumstance or strategy dictated that he personally lead the attack, Pharmstrong was not just the best-doped rider in the contest, he almost without exception also the best-rested. His seemingly superhuman performances weren't down to one motor that ran on electricity, they were down to nine motors powered by EPO.



** It bears mention that FLandis was there on that day in 2003. And I can't help but think that might have been the spark of the idea to use the heat to his advantage on the occasion of 2006's infamous Stage 17, which he gambled he could overcome by spending the entire stage "off the front," where he would have near unlimited access to water.

That is a good, thorough, and (for me) compelling argument. Thanks.
 
Re: Re:

StyrbjornSterki said:
Gregga said:
I've recently watched again each of Armstrong crazy attacks from 1999-2005, most of them fit so well Varjas' story and the "140w for 5 minutes" in Brunel's book, I'm now SURE he did use a motor. Of course, this was on top of EPO/BBs/testosterone who allowed him to be in the front group.

But motor was the way to LEAVE the front group (and make them look like juniors), I'm now sure of that.

Sestriere 1999
Hautacam 2000
Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani
Alpe Huez 2001
Beille 2002
Luz Adiden 2003
etc.
There's exactly zero chance Phamstrong was using a motor because, if he had, there's exactly zero chance that someone (if not FLandis, Hamilton, or Andreau, then certainly his former mechanic, Mike Anderson [or all of the above]) would not have groused by now.

It simply beggars belief that he might have been using an electric motor but that his own bike mechanic and personal assistant not know about it, or that Anderson would not by now have blown the whistle.

If he had a motor, why didn't he use it in the ITT on Stage 12 in 2003, when he lost 1:36 to Ullrich and very nearly lost the TdF entire because he suffered too much from the heat?** You can't speculate that he would use a motor to create successes without also inquiring why he didn't use the same motor to stave off failures.


Pharmstrong's seeming indomitability in select mountain stages, IMHO, was down to four factors.

#1. Pharmstrong was coddled and his cheating turned a blind eye to by WADA, UCI and ASO. Because when he returned post-cancer to the European circuit, he brought with him something they had all coveted since the days of Jock Boyer: penetration of the American market. Even 3-time winner (and gunshot survivor) Greg Lemond failed to deliver on their hope, but Pharmstrong presented it to them gift-wrapped and tied up with a bow (without even having won his first TdF). Americans in their millions who wouldn't have known a bidon from a bidet or Charly Gaul from Charles de Gaulle were buying every bit of cycling kitsch in sight that bore either Pharmstrong's name or likeness or the Livestrong trademark.

#2. He had a superior doping program in the guise Michele Ferrari, who was -- pardon the pun -- at the "bleeding edge" of doping technology. And whose exclusive services Pharmstrong had retained.

#3. His entire team were better doped than any other team. USADA called it, "...the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen...." They were known as "the Big Blue Train" because when they decided to set the tempo for a stage, they were going to set the tempo for the stage. Period. Full stop. They could not be stopped because they collectively were too powerful. Such events were what Pharmstrong called his "getting out the hurt stick," an American slang reference akin to a jockey's "going to the whip," when he would don his patrón hat and exert his dominance over the peloton.

The fact that everyone on the team was doping not only improved their performance as a unit, it also gave Pharmstrong an added layer of security because their being complicit in the doping made them far less likely to grouse.

#4. The team itself were unusually well-optimised for the benefit of its captain. Yes, I know all the other teams also were "shields on me" around their star, but Motorola/USPS/Disco were setting a new standard.

For instance, Pharmstrong's teams were unusual in that they never carried a sprint specialist. Sprinters are useless in the mountains and so did nothing to enhance his chances of a GC win, so they simply didn't have one. Which means that when the mountains came and all the "Danger Men" began expending pawns in pursuit of the stage win, Pharmstrong essentially/potentially had 14% more pawns at his disposal than any opponent on a team that did have a sprinter. Plus, he enjoyed better protection in those dangerous final kilometers of a sprint finish because none of his eight teammates were excused duty from his protective phalanx.

And on any TdF featuring a TTT, Motorola/USPS/Disco were known to have invested more training time on team time trialing. Because Pharmstrong was one of the best ITTers and so sought to minimize how much time his less proficient teammates would cost him in the TTT.


Taken together, the latter two points meant that Pharmstrong was cosseted within the most powerful and best disciplined team in the peloton. It cannot be overestimated how much of his success was owed to the strength (and willingness to suffer) of his supporting teammembers, because that afforded him the greatest opportunity to "sit in" and expend minimum energies when the conduct of the race was business as usual.


Speaking specifically to "Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani," in 1999, Il Elefantino had been tossed out of the Giro (while wearing the pink jersey) because he was caught with an Hct of 52. He only just had come off of an 11-month suspension for that doping infraction at the start of the 2000 Tour.

OTOH, in the 1999 TdF, Pharmstrong had been caught using corticosteroids. And on several different stages, possibly as many as six. Yet all his indiscretions were swept under the rug.

So what you are seeing on that stage on the Ventoux in 2000 is not a contest among equals, it is a contest between a man who doped with impunity because the sport's overlords protected him versus a man who doped with circumspection because he was under elevated scrutiny.



Most days, Pharmstrong cruised in the luxury of the Big Blue Train's first-class cabin. But whenever circumstance or strategy dictated that he personally lead the attack, Pharmstrong was not just the best-doped rider in the contest, he almost without exception also the best-rested. His seemingly superhuman performances weren't down to one motor that ran on electricity, they were down to nine motors powered by EPO.



** It bears mention that FLandis was there on that day in 2003. And I can't help but think that might have been the spark of the idea to use the heat to his advantage on the occasion of 2006's infamous Stage 17, which he gambled he could overcome by spending the entire stage "off the front," where he would have near unlimited access to water.

Good analysis. Thanks.
 
Re: Re:

StyrbjornSterki said:
Gregga said:
I've recently watched again each of Armstrong crazy attacks from 1999-2005, most of them fit so well Varjas' story and the "140w for 5 minutes" in Brunel's book, I'm now SURE he did use a motor. Of course, this was on top of EPO/BBs/testosterone who allowed him to be in the front group.

But motor was the way to LEAVE the front group (and make them look like juniors), I'm now sure of that.

Sestriere 1999
Hautacam 2000
Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani
Alpe Huez 2001
Beille 2002
Luz Adiden 2003
etc.
There's exactly zero chance Phamstrong was using a motor because, if he had, there's exactly zero chance that someone (if not FLandis, Hamilton, or Andreau, then certainly his former mechanic, Mike Anderson [or all of the above]) would not have groused by now.

It simply beggars belief that he might have been using an electric motor but that his own bike mechanic and personal assistant not know about it, or that Anderson would not by now have blown the whistle.

If he had a motor, why didn't he use it in the ITT on Stage 12 in 2003, when he lost 1:36 to Ullrich and very nearly lost the TdF entire because he suffered too much from the heat?** You can't speculate that he would use a motor to create successes without also inquiring why he didn't use the same motor to stave off failures.


Pharmstrong's seeming indomitability in select mountain stages, IMHO, was down to four factors.

#1. Pharmstrong was coddled and his cheating turned a blind eye to by WADA, UCI and ASO. Because when he returned post-cancer to the European circuit, he brought with him something they had all coveted since the days of Jock Boyer: penetration of the American market. Even 3-time winner (and gunshot survivor) Greg Lemond failed to deliver on their hope, but Pharmstrong presented it to them gift-wrapped and tied up with a bow (without even having won his first TdF). Americans in their millions who wouldn't have known a bidon from a bidet or Charly Gaul from Charles de Gaulle were buying every bit of cycling kitsch in sight that bore either Pharmstrong's name or likeness or the Livestrong trademark.

#2. He had a superior doping program in the guise Michele Ferrari, who was -- pardon the pun -- at the "bleeding edge" of doping technology. And whose exclusive services Pharmstrong had retained.

#3. His entire team were better doped than any other team. USADA called it, "...the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen...." They were known as "the Big Blue Train" because when they decided to set the tempo for a stage, they were going to set the tempo for the stage. Period. Full stop. They could not be stopped because they collectively were too powerful. Such events were what Pharmstrong called his "getting out the hurt stick," an American slang reference akin to a jockey's "going to the whip," when he would don his patrón hat and exert his dominance over the peloton.

The fact that everyone on the team was doping not only improved their performance as a unit, it also gave Pharmstrong an added layer of security because their being complicit in the doping made them far less likely to grouse.

#4. The team itself were unusually well-optimised for the benefit of its captain. Yes, I know all the other teams also were "shields on me" around their star, but Motorola/USPS/Disco were setting a new standard.

For instance, Pharmstrong's teams were unusual in that they never carried a sprint specialist. Sprinters are useless in the mountains and so did nothing to enhance his chances of a GC win, so they simply didn't have one. Which means that when the mountains came and all the "Danger Men" began expending pawns in pursuit of the stage win, Pharmstrong essentially/potentially had 14% more pawns at his disposal than any opponent on a team that did have a sprinter. Plus, he enjoyed better protection in those dangerous final kilometers of a sprint finish because none of his eight teammates were excused duty from his protective phalanx.

And on any TdF featuring a TTT, Motorola/USPS/Disco were known to have invested more training time on team time trialing. Because Pharmstrong was one of the best ITTers and so sought to minimize how much time his less proficient teammates would cost him in the TTT.


Taken together, the latter two points meant that Pharmstrong was cosseted within the most powerful and best disciplined team in the peloton. It cannot be overestimated how much of his success was owed to the strength (and willingness to suffer) of his supporting teammembers, because that afforded him the greatest opportunity to "sit in" and expend minimum energies when the conduct of the race was business as usual.


Speaking specifically to "Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani," in 1999, Il Elefantino had been tossed out of the Giro (while wearing the pink jersey) because he was caught with an Hct of 52. He only just had come off of an 11-month suspension for that doping infraction at the start of the 2000 Tour.

OTOH, in the 1999 TdF, Pharmstrong had been caught using corticosteroids. And on several different stages, possibly as many as six. Yet all his indiscretions were swept under the rug.

So what you are seeing on that stage on the Ventoux in 2000 is not a contest among equals, it is a contest between a man who doped with impunity because the sport's overlords protected him versus a man who doped with circumspection because he was under elevated scrutiny.



Most days, Pharmstrong cruised in the luxury of the Big Blue Train's first-class cabin. But whenever circumstance or strategy dictated that he personally lead the attack, Pharmstrong was not just the best-doped rider in the contest, he almost without exception also the best-rested. His seemingly superhuman performances weren't down to one motor that ran on electricity, they were down to nine motors powered by EPO.



** It bears mention that FLandis was there on that day in 2003. And I can't help but think that might have been the spark of the idea to use the heat to his advantage on the occasion of 2006's infamous Stage 17, which he gambled he could overcome by spending the entire stage "off the front," where he would have near unlimited access to water.

Yeah with his A Grade rocket fuel plus the team he had beside him he never needed a motor. Same with Cancellara to a lesser extent but maybe Riis was giving him advice in other areas ? The CSC team from around 2008 was a pretty formidable team.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,270
2
0
Visit site
I feel sorry for Lance. Breaking news about his lawsuit, and his thread isn't even on the front page of the clinic anymore. Even thehog has abandoned him. Sad face. :(

Imma help a brother out.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/over-50-witnesses-called-in-lance-armstrong-whistleblower-case/

Walsh as a witness should be good for some entertainment value, especially with LA's team on cross.

Think he'll settle?

edit- I did almost click on the Armistead thread. Wrong LA. Poor old irrelevant Lance. Needs to get a Brit passport to get some attention.
 
Re:

Beech Mtn said:
I feel sorry for Lance. Breaking news about his lawsuit, and his thread isn't even on the front page of the clinic anymore. Even thehog has abandoned him. Sad face. :(

Imma help a brother out.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/over-50-witnesses-called-in-lance-armstrong-whistleblower-case/

Walsh as a witness should be good for some entertainment value, especially with LA's team on cross.

Think he'll settle?

edit- I did almost click on the Armistead thread. Wrong LA. Poor old irrelevant Lance. Needs to get a Brit passport to get some attention.

Good to see Betsy and Greg still have skin in the game. How do think the other Posties testimony can be redirected now that it's not a Grand Jury and Tygart hanging over them?

I don't think it's up to him to settle.
 
Re: Re:

aphronesis said:
Beech Mtn said:
I feel sorry for Lance. Breaking news about his lawsuit, and his thread isn't even on the front page of the clinic anymore. Even thehog has abandoned him. Sad face. :(

Imma help a brother out.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/over-50-witnesses-called-in-lance-armstrong-whistleblower-case/

Walsh as a witness should be good for some entertainment value, especially with LA's team on cross.

Think he'll settle?

edit- I did almost click on the Armistead thread. Wrong LA. Poor old irrelevant Lance. Needs to get a Brit passport to get some attention.

Good to see Betsy and Greg still have skin in the game. How do think the other Posties testimony can be redirected now that it's not a Grand Jury and Tygart hanging over them?

I don't think it's up to him to settle.

Please get JV on the stand, please! :cool:
 
Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Sadly Lance is bit of whimp. If this went to trial a cross on Tygart’s 2006 line in the sand of when everyone stopped doping, JVs coaching athletes to dope would make fun viewing. Pity we won’t get to see it.
 
Jul 17, 2009
4,316
2
0
Visit site
Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Regardless of all the shi! In the past or the outcome of this trail, imho his forward podcast is quite good and well intended.
 
He's probably being asked about it so he answers. Doesn't strike me as playing the victim card. Although I don't see what he means with "They both deal in marijuana, that says enough." Whether Zabriske is right or wrong, this doesn't matter.