Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[ebandit]

hollywood

Yea, he would only be welcomed under these circumstances if he were from the UK. Then, he'd be golden..........................................(..............................)

chewie.......lance was always the all american hero....................

...product of wall street , hollywood ..and p!ss poor beer

Mark L

 

[ChewbaccaD]

chewie.......lance was always the all american hero....................

...product of wall street , hollywood ..and p!ss poor beer

Mark L

And he would have been equally worshiped in the UK if he'd been a product of The City, Borehamwood ..and p!ss poor teeth

 

[ultimobici]

Yes the British have no time for dopers, which is why Tom Simpson is so reviled.....................oh wait!

If you look at virtually every reference to Simpson in the press, he is never separated from the contents of his bloodstream & pockets at the time of his death. The only exception is Chris Sidwells, Tom Simpson's nephew.

 

[The Hitch]

Good find. So LA was tested five times during the TdS that year, including three times for EPO. All three tests were reported negative, but two were further described as strongly suspicious. At that time, and at that lab, 80% of the bands had to be in the basic area for a test to be considered positive. One of LA's tests exhibited 75% basic, which is in the strongly suspicious area, whereas another was 70%, just below the cutoff for strongly suspicious (though it was still described as such in the report).

Since LA's confession, the whole significance of this report, of course, is whether it supports the charge that UCI covered up a positive. UCI is using this report to argue that it shows that it didn't, since there was no official positive. Based on these documents, it's pretty hard to argue against them.

However, the article also notes that LA was tested ten times at the TDF that year, five of them for EPO, all of them of course reported at the time as negative. The most suspicious of his samples registered at 72, though apparently the French used a different criterion and this was not reported as strongly suspicious. Taken together, though, this shows that at least 3/8 EPO tests LA had at that time were strongly suspicious, by the Swiss standards, including the one at the lower bounds of the criterion.

Though it doesn't matter now, results like this would be pretty strong evidence of EPO use. I'm pretty sure a large majority of samples with over 70% of the bands in the basic area are positive, but are scored negative to avoid occasional false positives. The odds of getting 3/8 tests like this from a clean rider would have to be pretty low. UCI certainly should have been suspicious of LA, but without a legitimate positive, they couldn't have sanctioned him.

Thanks for this great summary

 

[ebandit]

but................

And he would have been equally worshiped in the UK if he'd been a product of The City, Borehamwood ..and p!ss poor teeth

but he is not british.........................enjoy the hollywood movie

Mark L

 

[ChewbaccaD]

but he is not british.........................enjoy the hollywood movie

Mark L

Pity that, right? (that was not the premise of the comment........................................................................try to keep up)

Enjoy the Wiggins Borehamwood movie....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................. ........................ ....................................................

...

 

[Cloxxki]

Thanks for this great summary

Hamilton got a talk when he was snitched by Lance. Did Lance get a talk when he pee'd friggin' suspiciously all over the TdF? Or increased OOC coverage?

 

[ebandit]

keeping up

Pity that, right? (that was not the premise of the comment........................................................................try to keep up)

Enjoy the Wiggins Borehamwood movie

you write 'try to keep up' but fail to notice that this is not the wiggo thread

...............to most observers it's lance that is the bad guy

Mark L

 

[ChewbaccaD]

you write 'try to keep up' but fail to notice that this is not the wiggo thread

...............to most observers it's lance that is the bad guy

Mark L

The reference to Armstrong being welcomed with open arms if he were from the UK is a direct reference/comparison to the way Sir Bradley Wiggins is treated with unquestioning acceptance in the UK...try to keep up.

.................................................................................many observers question Wiggin's meteoric rise in GT prowess...

You Sky fanboys have all the quality of the USPS fanboys of old.................................................only the whole premise of "Brits don't dope because cheating isn't part of their sociological make-up" or whatever excuse you guys use to cover your eyes and ears is quite funny really.

The funnier thing will be to see if their dominance drops because of the new HWFDLKPEIHPEBEr3urEOIFH*OG test........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................if not, we can be sure they are on something else because the idea (USPS used this excuse a lot too) that they have revolutionized the way people train for cycling so much that donkey riders like Porte can now ride the best climbers off his wheel is pretty ludicrous. Sorry, but Sky doesn't pass the smell test in the same way that USPS and Armstrong didn't.....................................see how I did that..........................combining Armstrong content with other ideas to create a unified post.................................................................try to keep up........................................................

 

[ebandit]

right

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ Sky smell Armstrong .........try to keep up........................................................

right........move the whole clinic here...........after all it was lance's fault
all along

Mark L

 

[ChewbaccaD]

right........whole...........it
along

Mark L

Please.....................try................................to......................................................................form..................complete.........................................thoughts...

 

[D-Queued]

Good find. So LA was tested five times during the TdS that year, including three times for EPO. All three tests were reported negative, but two were further described as strongly suspicious. At that time, and at that lab, 80% of the bands had to be in the basic area for a test to be considered positive. One of LA's tests exhibited 75% basic, which is in the strongly suspicious area, whereas another was 70%, just below the cutoff for strongly suspicious (though it was still described as such in the report).

Since LA's confession, the whole significance of this report, of course, is whether it supports the charge that UCI covered up a positive. UCI is using this report to argue that it shows that it didn't, since there was no official positive. Based on these documents, it's pretty hard to argue against them.

However, the article also notes that LA was tested ten times at the TDF that year, five of them for EPO, all of them of course reported at the time as negative. The most suspicious of his samples registered at 72, though apparently the French used a different criterion and this was not reported as strongly suspicious. Taken together, though, this shows that at least 3/8 EPO tests LA had at that time were strongly suspicious, by the Swiss standards, including the one at the lower bounds of the criterion.

Though it doesn't matter now, results like this would be pretty strong evidence of EPO use. I'm pretty sure a large majority of samples with over 70% of the bands in the basic area are positive, but are scored negative to avoid occasional false positives. The odds of getting 3/8 tests like this from a clean rider would have to be pretty low. UCI certainly should have been suspicious of LA, but without a legitimate positive, they couldn't have sanctioned him.

It does expose a UCI cover-up.

Why wasn't this information provided to USADA prior to the reasoned decision?

With so many 'marginal' results, over two Tours, the pattern becomes pretty clear.

Dave.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...Since LA's confession, the whole significance of this report, of course, is whether it supports the charge that UCI covered up a positive. UCI is using this report to argue that it shows that it didn't, since there was no official positive. Based on these documents, it's pretty hard to argue against them.

Except, Pat's changed the allegations to fit the propaganda. The red-hot positive samples were from Wonderboy's 'comeback' 2009 or therabaouts. Ashenden and USADA has seen those and they WERE red-hot positive.

I am impressed at the precision of the doping.

Finally, maybe you can answer this one, pretend the results occurred in the bio-passport era. If results are in suspicious range over time, then why isn't that some kind of positive? Aren't the blood values out of some kind of range in this scenario?

 

[WinterRider]

It does expose a UCI cover-up.

Why wasn't this information provided to USADA prior to the reasoned decision?

With so many 'marginal' results, over two Tours, the pattern becomes pretty clear.

Dave.

Not to mention that immediately after these two tests, the UCI set up a meeting between Saugy and Lance so that Lance could have the test explained to him, after which Lance paid the UCI (and indirectly the lab) a bunch of money.

I can't believe they've been able to last this long. Now that we have proof of just how suspicious those tests were, surely the question of the subsequent meeting and payments must now be clearly visible for what they are.

 

[heart_attack_man]

"There is nothing. I repeat again: Lance Armstrong has never used doping. Never, never, never. I say this not because I am a friend of his, because that is not true. I say it because I'm sure."

One would think that 3/8 highly suspicious tests would not exactly correlate with "Never, never, never"...

I'm not sure how the UCI think releasing this vindicates them of any culpability in the matter, when this is the attitude of the President...

I hold the opposite view - this has just cemented the fact that the UCI have been complicit.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

One would think that 3/8 highly suspicious tests would not exactly correlate with "Never, never, never"...

I'm not sure how the UCI think releasing this vindicates them of any culpability in the matter, when this is the attitude of the President...

I hold the opposite view - this has just cemented the fact that the UCI have been complicit.

This......

 

[DirtyWorks]

One would think that 3/8 highly suspicious tests would not exactly correlate with "Never, never, never"...

I'm not sure how the UCI think releasing this vindicates them of any culpability in the matter, when this is the attitude of the President...

I hold the opposite view - this has just cemented the fact that the UCI have been complicit.

Winner! Winner! Turkey Dinner. Just don't ask the UCI about the "comeback" samples. Don't ask the IOC to investigate other sports doing the same thing either.

The USADA also issued a list of 10 “new concerns” and requested further details relating to Armstong's doping controls from 1999 to 2010. It did, however, say that it was “thankful that the UCI has now belatedly come around to USADA’s position that it is appropriate for the UCI to share with USADA and others in the sports world Mr. Armstrong’s test results.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/two...e-suisse-suspicious-but-not-positive-uci-says

WADA/USADA have no authority, and yet Hein and Pat are being played like a fiddle. More samples please....

 

[DirtyWorks]

Not to mention that immediately after these two tests, the UCI set up a meeting between Saugy and Lance so that Lance could have the test explained to him, after which Lance paid the UCI (and indirectly the lab) a bunch of money.

I can't believe they've been able to last this long. Now that we have proof of just how suspicious those tests were, surely the question of the subsequent meeting and payments must now be clearly visible for what they are.

Not to mention how this was handled versus another American, where the UCI sends the rider's DS a letter suggesting the rider take a break to get the blood parameters in order. I don't remember the names though. Hincapie maybe? Levi??

Not enough has been made of the fact Saugy managed both the testing and test result collections was doing the UCI's bidding.

 

[D-Queued]

One would think that 3/8 highly suspicious tests would not exactly correlate with "Never, never, never"...

I'm not sure how the UCI think releasing this vindicates them of any culpability in the matter, when this is the attitude of the President...

I hold the opposite view - this has just cemented the fact that the UCI have been complicit.

This......

Exactly.

Dave.

 

[TheGame]

This is what LAs house might look like soon.

Meanwhile Lance gets to live here

 

[AngusW]

One would think that 3/8 highly suspicious tests would not exactly correlate with "Never, never, never"...

I'm not sure how the UCI think releasing this vindicates them of any culpability in the matter, when this is the attitude of the President...

I hold the opposite view - this has just cemented the fact that the UCI have been complicit.

Too right! Verbruggen as president must have known about the suspicious results, yet IIRC he and Armstrong were business partners in a small hotel. Has any journalist asked questions about this relationship yet?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Armstrong positive four times for steroids in 1999 Tour

UCI redefines what "act on good faith" means

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-armstrong-positive-four-times-for-steroids-in-1999-tour

 

[BroDeal]

UCI redefines what "act on good faith" means

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-armstrong-positive-four-times-for-steroids-in-1999-tour

July 4, 14, 15 and 21

That is the entire race. The real story is that the UCI looked the other way because riders having bogus TUEs to excuse positives throughout a race was normal.

 

[Morbius]

Does anyone have a link to USADA's ten new concerns? I couldn't find a list on the USADA web site

 

[heart_attack_man]

UCI redefines what "act on good faith" means

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-armstrong-positive-four-times-for-steroids-in-1999-tour

Oh good god - the UCI are just an absurdity. Every little detail that comes out of Aigle these days just makes me *facepalm*. They're in the wrong business - they should be in stand up comedy.

Or perhaps it's more like a tragic comedy. Yes - I think that's more like it. Pure Shakespeare coming out of Verdruggen and McFake.

It bothers me deeply that McQuaid got nominated by Ireland Cycling again. I understand that it's a bit of an old boys club on the Emerald Isle, but allowing him to continue in what is almost certainly an untenable position is not only ridiculous, but bordering on fraudulent/corrupt. I really don't understand why they WOULDN'T want change at the moment (apart from the aforementioned reasons)...

Well, unfortunately, I DO understand why they don't want change - it suits Cycling Ireland to have an Irishman as the head of the UCI (see 2014 Giro d'Italia), but at what cost to cycling generally?

McQuaid, Verbruggen, the UCI and Cycling Ireland should hang their head in shame.

Never, Never, Never???