Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[blackcat]

fricken great post

This is Armstrong pictured with Yellow Rose owner Don King.

best

post

evvvva

somes up Armstrong in less than one word

 

[Anti-doping]

Just curious anti-me & Frankie people (I'll refrain from calling you "haters"). How do you refer to Frankie when he raced the majority of his races clean? Is he still a "doper" when he didn't dope while others did?

I'm anti-doping, so have nothing to do with you. Quite the opposite, to my knowledge, you are fighting against doping? If that's the case; Chapeau
Keep on fighting!!

Frankie is a doper, no doubt about that. Don't fall for the doping apologist trap and defend or play down use of doping. Frankie probably (or for sure) used less Peds then most of the peloton. But think of, and remember, the clean riders. Frankie cheated. And what's his "excuse"? He was almost 30 year old or something when he started doping?!?

 

[ultimobici]

I'm anti-doping, so have nothing to do with you. Quite the opposite, to my knowledge, you are fighting against doping? If that's the case; Chapeau
Keep on fighting!!

Frankie is a doper, no doubt about that. Don't fall for the doping apologist trap and defend or play down use of doping. Frankie probably (or for sure) used less Peds then most of the peloton. But think of, and remember, the clean riders. Frankie cheated. And what's his "excuse"? He was almost 30 year old or something when he started doping?!?

Love the idea that everything is the same.
Drug use is the same regardless of whether it's Class A or Class B?
Causing another's death is the same whether it is due to a lapse of concentration or a premeditated act?
Theft should be treated the same regardless of whether one steals a loaf of bread or robs a bank?

The majority of us on these forums have no idea of the pressures faced by riders. But we have the luxury of pontificating from our armchairs about the moral fibre or lack of of the peloton. Hope your conscience is clean and you have no skeletons in your closet.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm anti-doping, bla blah blah blah....

Mrs Andreu has done more for the cause of anti-doping than you will ever do in a life time.

Again your posts are tellingly of someone who actually has no idea of pro cycling and you are reading from the Public statalies/livewrong hymn book given to all interns. you have a nice livewrong day sir.

 

[Race Radio]

Really in 2001 (the date of the article) he was screwing around on his wife? He screwed around on her since they were married until they were divorced?

If you can post a link detailing this I would appreciate it. I like reading about that kind of stuff. Thanks.

How about photos? Would that work for you or are you still going to pretend that Wonderboy is not a ladies man?

 

[patricknd]

well if it really is relavent to the Armstrong thread then why not paint us a picture of what it looks like on the inside of Don's place? I can but you can not. If you really have any proof that dude was hitting some pancake lady in San Fran during that time then why not link up or do some real research. Try to do your placation of your forum friends,,,,,, I can do that also (of course I do not have friends )

Your links do not show anything but some 403 ... etc. and STORY / LINK DOES NOT EXIST.

Nice pictures though I really like the fact that hamstrong took his pick with the KING of the Rose.

Have you been inside the Rose? Nahhhh you like La Bare.

not that we're judging lmao

 

[JRTinMA]

Just curious anti-me & Frankie people (I'll refrain from calling you "haters"). How do you refer to Frankie when he raced the majority of his races clean? Is he still a "doper" when he didn't dope while others did?
I guess we're all bowlers then (that was very funny Deogal)

Found this gem:

But if Armstrong turns out to have been morally fallible as well, that will be devastating. As his own agent, Bill Stapleton, put it to Dan Coyle in 2004, "Can you imagine what would happen if Lance tested positive? Can you imagine what would happen if it turns out we're screwing with people on this?"http://www.slate.com/id/2260464/pagenum/2

This has nothing to do with hate, nothing to do with with being "anti-you" or Frankie, this has to do with doping. Frankie doped and that makes him a cheater, so yes he's a doper. It matters little if he was mostly "cleanish" as you say. I'm sure he's a great person and that's all that matters today, I'm completely capable of separating the difference between the quality of an individual and cheating in cycling.

 

[Benotti69]

This has nothing to do with hate, nothing to do with with being "anti-you" or Frankie, this has to do with doping. Frankie doped and that makes him a cheater, so yes he's a doper. It matters little if he was mostly "cleanish" as you say. I'm sure he's a great person and that's all that matters today, I'm completely capable of separating the difference between the quality of an individual and cheating in cycling.

boy it sure is a LA fanboy attack on Frankie these days.

When did Frankie A fail a dope test? He's up above Armstrong! no positive test unlike Lance in 99 and his quick back dated TUE. But Frankie admitted his cheating and therefore has washed his sins away. End of. He is not lying to the world that he never cheated, he rose above the parapet and told the TRUTH and for that deserves RESPECT.

 

[skippythepinhead]

This has nothing to do with hate, nothing to do with with being "anti-you" or Frankie, this has to do with doping. Frankie doped and that makes him a cheater, so yes he's a doper. It matters little if he was mostly "cleanish" as you say. I'm sure he's a great person and that's all that matters today, I'm completely capable of separating the difference between the quality of an individual and cheating in cycling.

SSDD. Another slow news day, I suppose.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Several posts were moved from this thread to the About-the-Forum area. They all dealt with the conflict between Lance trading on a public image as a family man, and how to scrutinize that, when the site also protects the entitlement to privacy of the other people involved [or how we deal with speculation about their possible involvement].

That strand starts here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14136

Please continue that particular discussion there.

This is not a move to obfuscate the fact that Lance's own image projection doesn't quite stack up to what is (also) know about it in the public domain.

 

[Willy_Voet]

When did Frankie A fail a dope test? He's up above Armstrong! no positive test unlike Lance in 99 and his quick back dated TUE. But Frankie admitted his cheating and therefore has washed his sins away. End of. He is not lying to the world that he never cheated, he rose above the parapet and told the TRUTH and for that deserves RESPECT.

That's a point that should be emphasized as people try to elevate Armstrong to a morally superior position for "never having failed a test". Frankie didn't either.

Frankie didn't have a backdated TUE or a 6 "abnormal" samples either.

 

[Topangarider]

How about photos? Would that work for you or are you still going to pretend that Wonderboy is not a ladies man?

Sure, would love to see some photos. Not that I don't believe it

 

[Topangarider]

Keker, Peters, Fabiani, Herman, Luskin & Daily. That is a lot of money ($400,000 per month) for an investigation that is going nowhere.

Some of these guy's job is to impede. Lobby the justice department to drop the case etc. So far they have had little luck. Once the charges are filed they will spend considerable effort trying to take apart the case.

In the end he will spend $10-15 million on the case. Will have to pay SCA $15 million. Times of london, $1 million. The qui Tam case? Maybe another $10 million.

The smartest thing to do is to start working on a plea deal. It will save him Millions

Just curious how you are arriving at the 400k a month figure. I would guess that senior partners bill at $1000 per hr. But 400 billable hours per month? That's ten partners working 40hrs a week on this at point when there are not even charges filed?

Also, I keep asking the same question but maybe there is no public info on this - when does the grand jury term expire? That will give a pretty strong indication of when indictments could come.

 

[thehog]

It's not about money anymore. It's about spending enough not to go to jail.

I have heard very small noises about Lance already receiving a letter in regards to CacheCache-gate.

A please explain if you will. They've got him now.

Lets see what comes and if this plays out.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The Hog Returns From the Safe House

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a09hR4CtJvA

 

[Race Radio]

Just curious how you are arriving at the 400k a month figure. I would guess that senior partners bill at $1000 per hr. But 400 billable hours per month? That's ten partners working 40hrs a week on this at point when there are not even charges filed?

Also, I keep asking the same question but maybe there is no public info on this - when does the grand jury term expire? That will give a pretty strong indication of when indictments could come.

there are 6 legal teams working on the various cases. Fabiani alone is $30k+ per month. It is not just the name lawyers but also their teams working this. Lobbying the justice department is Luskins job. Two others focus on taking apart or weakening any potential charges. Daily focuses on the Qui Tam case. Qui Tam cases are often confidential during much of the process. Armstrong, and others, have already been given their target letters for the Qui Tam case months ago so it is likely their legal has been working it for months.

Given this level of activity $400k per month would be a good estimate

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

there are 6 legal teams working on the various cases. Fabiani alone is $30k+ per month. It is not just the name lawyers but also their teams working this. Lobbying the justice department is Luskins job. Two others focus on taking apart or weakening any potential charges. Daily focuses on the Qui Tam case. Qui Tam cases are often confidential during much of the process. Armstrong, and others, have already been given their target letters for the Qui Tam case months ago so it is likely their legal has been working it for months.

Given this level of activity $400k per month would be a good estimate

Is Lance paying the legal bills himself or is Livestrong paying? If Livestrong is paying then it would seem like a good tactic for someone to file an injunction or something to prevent the charity from paying for Lance's personal bills. Either that or a petition should be made to change the name of Livestrong to the Lance Fairness Fund.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

It's not about money anymore. It's about spending enough not to go to jail.

I have heard very small noises about Lance already receiving a letter in regards to CacheCache-gate.

A please explain if you will. They've got him now.

Lets see what comes and if this plays out.

What kind of letter? A target letter relating to witness tampering/obstruction of justice and/or a letter warning him to have no contact with potential trial witnesses?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Is Lance paying the legal bills himself or is Livestrong paying? If Livestrong is paying then it would seem like a good tactic for someone to file an injunction or something to prevent the charity from paying for Lance's personal bills. Either that or a petition should be made to change the name of Livestrong to the Lance Fairness Fund.

I seriously doubt that his counsel and counsel for LiveStrong would be so stupid as to do that. However, one can hope, eh?

 

[Exroadman24902]

Just curious how you are arriving at the 400k a month figure. I would guess that senior partners bill at $1000 per hr. But 400 billable hours per month? That's ten partners working 40hrs a week on this at point when there are not even charges filed?

Also, I keep asking the same question but maybe there is no public info on this - when does the grand jury term expire? That will give a pretty strong indication of when indictments could come.

Good question. If we don't hear anything by November, reckon this case is closed and the clinic will be sad

usually...

"Federal grand juries are of two types—regular and special. Regular grand juries sit for a basic term of 18 months, but that term can be extended up to another 6 months, which means their total possible term is 24 months".

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Good question. if we don't hear anything by November, reckon this case is closed and the clinic will be sad

"Federal grand juries are of two types—regular and special. Regular grand juries sit for a basic term of 18 months, but that term can be extended up to another 6 months, which means their total possible term is 24 months".

The matter can also be turned over to a subsequently seated grand jury, IIRC.

 

[Race Radio]

I seriously doubt that his counsel and counsel for LiveStrong would be so stupid as to do that. However, one can hope, eh?

From the Livestrong annual report

Legal and professional 2005 $3,511,000
Legal and professional 2009 $9,418,840

That is a large increase in legal awareness

 

[Cimacoppi49]

From the Livestrong annual report

Legal and professional 2005 $3,511,000
Legal and professional 2009 $9,418,840

That is a large increase in legal awareness

Very, very interesting. Give me a few moments while I pull their federal 990s.

2009 Form 990 for LAF (no filing for Livestrong that I can find) shows legal expenses of just over $1million.
Other is close to $8million. There is a representation that no funds were expended by LAF for first class or chartered air travel. LIVESTRONG SurvivorCare is noted as an educational arm of LAF that provided discounts on services to cancer victims. Will do more looking into that entity later.

 

[Exroadman24902]

The matter can also be turned over to a subsequently seated grand jury, IIRC.

How long does a grand jury serve?
Federal grand juries are of two types—regular and special. Regular grand juries sit for a basic term of 18 months, but that term can be extended up to another 6 months, which means their total possible term is 24 months. Special grand juries (created in 1970 specifically to investigate organized crime) sit for 18 months, but their term can be extended for up to another 18 months; a court can extend a special grand jury's term for 6 months, and can enter up to three such extensions, totaling 18 months, bringing the total term to 36 months. The term for state grand juries varies widely, but average around a year

 

[VeloMaster]

Good question. If we don't hear anything by November, reckon this case is closed and the clinic will be sad

usually...

"Federal grand juries are of two types—regular and special. Regular grand juries sit for a basic term of 18 months, but that term can be extended up to another 6 months, which means their total possible term is 24 months".

Absolutely, this case -- like any other GJ matter -- can be held over and passed along to a subsequent grand jury panel. Happens all the time. That said, in such a complex matter, I am sure the prosecutors would like to get indictments before that happens. Otherwise, the new jurors will have to listen to endless transcripts of previous testimony read into the official record, just to get up to speed.