Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[GJB123]

Maserati, thanks for the link.

http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/147445
This actually implies that Larner told LA about Hamilton's presence as LA was coming into the restaurant, not by telephone. That in turn means that the whole time LA was at the restaurant, he knew Hamilton was in the patio eating--plenty of time to premeditate or fantasize about what he wanted to tell Hamilton. Not quite as damning as if Larner had called him and he had gone to the restaurant specifically to inflict himself on Hamilton. Nevertheless, if LA initiated the contact, it would have to be considered intimidation. The power and money differential between these two people alone would make virtually any contact from Lance intimidating. The guy has $140 million dollars, six lawyers, PR firms, and a reputation for destroying his enemies.

Something that Larner has not addressed is, if she knew already that Armstrong would be there that evening, and her policy is to warn divorcees of their mutual presence, why did she warn only Armstrong and not Hamilton? She could have avoided the whole incident by barring Hamilton from entering in the first place, instead of banning him after the fact. If she didn't orchestrate the event, she certainly had the power to stop it from happening, and didn't.

Granted, English isn't my native language, but as I read it she does say she warned him before he came to the restaurant. This comes from the use of the words "would be coming" as he in he wasn't there yet. Also giving him the heads up (as she does with divorcees), presumably so the divorcee getting the heads up can decide to go to another restaurant in order to avoid causing a scene.

Regards
GJ

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ive seen the Simeoni card pulled out on here about LA a lot, Does anybody on here have proof of what was said between the 2 other than the 2 people that were involved. Just wondering because I don't recall seeing anybody else there to hear the conversation between the 2.

Here you are:

"I was protecting the interests of the peloton" to French TV after the stage and continued by saying, "The story of Simeoni is not a fair story...there's a long history there. All (journalists) want to write about is parts of the story. It's a long history...a guy like (Simeoni), all he wants to do is to destroy cycling...and for me, that's not correct.

Why not just use the search function and try one of the 5 threads dealing with it?
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/search.php?searchid=1422992

 

[thehog]

OK, so Larner admitted "that she had informed the former pro" that Hamilton was in the restaurant ... do we know if this "informing" took place when LA was already in the restaurant for an unrelated reason, or did the "informing" take place by phone, so that LA went out of his way to go to the restaurant just because Hamilton was there? This has been a major point of debate in this thread, it would be nice to know. If the latter, I don't see how a charge of witness tampering could be evaded.

Not many of this forum realise how serious the events in the context of the entire investigation at cache cache were.

The fact that Lance could see Tyler on the patio from the bar area leads to premeditated attack.

And secondary to this that Armstrong referenced "tearing Hamilton apart" on the witness stand. I simple berating would have carried less weight but to theaten any indivdual that if speak on a witness stand carries serious consequences. Very serious. It's added a new dimension to the investigation. It's also links together a lot from the SCA trial.


We'll all be able to read a lot more about the night in question in the upcoming edition of Outside including eyewitness accounts.

 

[Deagol]

Yeah. The Tour will be a lot of fun . . . Watching El Dopador dominate . . .

May miss it this year.

agreed 100% with you here. Assuming, of course you were being sarcastic.

 

[thirteen]

We'll all be able to read a lot more about the night in question in the upcoming edition if Outside including eyewitness accounts.

do you know when it will be out?

 

[Polish]

We'll all be able to read a lot more about the night in question in the upcoming edition of Outside including eyewitness accounts.

Tic ToC Tic lol.

I mentioned in the Floyd Thread yesterday that Floyd was telegraphing this on twitter.

Tweeting about going "Outside" on multiple tweets etc
The tweets have been taken off his twitter account it appears.
Maybe they are still there, but I can not find them anymore.
Kind of weird if they were removed

 

[sniper]

Not many of this forum realise how serious the events in the context of the entire investigation at cache cache were.

The fact that Lance could see Tyler on the patio from the bar area leads to premeditated attack.

And secondary to this that Armstrong referenced "tearing Hamilton apart" on the witness stand. I simple berating would have carried less weight but to theaten any indivdual that if speak on a witness stand carries serious consequences. Very serious. It's added a new dimension to the investigation. It's also links together a lot from the SCA trial.


We'll all be able to read a lot more about the night in question in the upcoming edition of Outside including eyewitness accounts.

How serious?
I was seriously hoping that such trivial events would not be of any relevance, and that other evidence gathered by the FBI would by itself be strong enough to convict armstrong.
The FBI have spent more than a year now gathering evidence around the globe. It would be disappointing if this event at cache cache would become the main point of reference in any indictment coming down.

 

[Benotti69]

How serious?
I was seriously hoping that such trivial events would not be of any relevance, and that other evidence gathered by the FBI would by itself be strong enough to convict armstrong.
The FBI have spent more than a year now gathering evidence around the globe. It would be disappointing if this event at cache cache would become the main point of reference in any indictment coming down.

i think it would be good for Armstrong to be sentenced to 12 months* for witness tampering, It might help him realise the way he is leading his life, the treatment of others, the cheating, lying, bullying and absolute fraud are not gonna do him or anyone else any good. It might help him come clean about his cycling doping and cheating, which in here posters would appreciate as it might help ruin McQ and Verbruggen who are firmly intent on keeping the sport in the gutter.

*12 months out of a possible 20 years is ok for me.

 

[Polish]

True.

LA could have asked Ty about his dog, spoke about the weather, wished him luck in dealing with depression....

But, true to form, Lance pull the Simeoni card from the bottom of the deck. Some things just are... no further explaination necessary.

Simeoni card?

Did Lance wait for Simeoni to take a pee break?
No, he charged "out to the patio" to chase Simeoni down.

Maybe THAT is what Outside Mag was expecting.
Lance charging out onto the patio.

Didn't happen.
Tyler had approach Lance in the bar.

If this "meeting" between Lance and Tyler was in anyway premeditated by Outside magazine in order to sell magazines - it will come out in trial.

"Tyler, did you know that Lance was in the bar?"
*** edited by mod ****

Maybe Lance WAS giving Tyler some friendly advice when he said his lawyers would be pretty tough on him lol.

 

[Deagol]

I wonder how Phil & Paul & Bob will spin this?
I would hardly call them unbiased reporters, but the casual fans I have watched the TDF with seem to take their word as gospel. I remember that a link from LA to Bob Roll very early-on in the Lance saga was mentioned in this thread. I also remember that someone mentioned a long while ago that there may be financial link between LA and Phil & Paul (this I have no specific details on, just a vague memory). Can anyone clarify if they are aware of such a link? If it really does exist, it would explain the commentary bias that you hear when watching the coverage of the TDF.

 

[Benotti69]

<blah snip blah>

Tyler had approach Lance in the bar.

<blah snip blah>

nothing like a fanboy to distort the facts

 

[Anonymous]

Simeoni card?

Maybe Lance WAS giving Tyler some friendly advice when he said his lawyers would be pretty tough on him lol.

Yeah, given Lance's temperament this seems the most likely scenario. Friendly advice normally "rattles" people, no?

Simeoni card? Yep. The only thing Lance was missing was Eki spitting on Tyler when he left the restaurant.

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah, given Lance's temperament this seems the most likely scenario. Friendly advice normally "rattles" people, no?

Simeoni card? Yep. The only thing Lance was missing was Eki spitting on Tyler when he left the restaurant.

I bet Eki was fuming he wasn't there that night waiting outside the restaurant.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I wonder how Phil & Paul & Bob will spin this?
I would hardly call them unbiased reporters, but the casual fans I have watched the TDF with seem to take their word as gospel. I remember that a link from LA to Bob Roll very early-on in the Lance saga was mentioned in this thread. I also remember that someone mentioned a long while ago that there may be financial link between LA and Phil & Paul (this I have no specific details on, just a vague memory). Can anyone clarify if they are aware of such a link? If it really does exist, it would explain the commentary bias that you hear when watching the coverage of the TDF.

Total 'commentary bias' has always existed. Read some of LA's history, as he was recovering from cancer Bob Roll was enlisted to ride with him and inspire him to come back to racing. All 3 of the Vs triplets have Lance attached to them. ...and Vs is the "lance channel".

 

[cat6cx]

How serious?
I was seriously hoping that such trivial events would not be of any relevance, and that other evidence gathered by the FBI would by itself be strong enough to convict armstrong.
The FBI have spent more than a year now gathering evidence around the globe. It would be disappointing if this event at cache cache would become the main point of reference in any indictment coming down.

I agree with Hog, as trivial as this seems (2 guys arguing in a bar), in the context of this investigation, this is very, very serious. Witness intimidation and tampering can carry a max 20 year prison sentence. The US justice system places a huge importance on protecting a witness' right to speak the truth safely. If the language being reported by TH's lawyers is true, it is clearly an effort to prevent TH from testifying. It is ironic, but if this charge sticks, it may have more incarceration implications than any of the other charges.

I think LA was just clueless as to the crime he was committing (if it actually occurred). I think he wishes he never stepped foot into cash cash that night.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I agree with Hog, as trivial as this seems (2 guys arguing in a bar), in the context of this investigation, this is very, very serious. Witness intimidation and tampering can carry a max 20 year prison sentence. The US justice system places a huge importance on protecting a witness' right to speak the truth safely. If the language being reported by TH's lawyers is true, it is clearly an effort to prevent TH from testifying. It is ironic, but if this charge sticks, it may have more incarceration implications than any of the other charges.

I think LA was just clueless as to the crime he was committing (if it actually occurred). I think he wishes he never stepped foot into cash cash that night.

But knowing LA and his MO..don't you think there may actually be other incidents similar to this that have occurred?

 

[Angliru]

I wonder how Phil & Paul & Bob will spin this?
I would hardly call them unbiased reporters, but the casual fans I have watched the TDF with seem to take their word as gospel. I remember that a link from LA to Bob Roll very early-on in the Lance saga was mentioned in this thread. I also remember that someone mentioned a long while ago that there may be financial link between LA and Phil & Paul (this I have no specific details on, just a vague memory). Can anyone clarify if they are aware of such a link? If it really does exist, it would explain the commentary bias that you hear when watching the coverage of the TDF.

Sherwin or Ligget used to be, I believe, the pr man for Motorola when Armstrong was there. The Roll connection is well known.

I'd appreciate Versus more if they were to bring back Kristen Gum. Those were the golden years. At least she would take your mind off of Roll's clowning and buffoonery.

 

[Love the Scenery]

@GJB123
The language in the Aspen Daily News article is indeed ambiguous, but my impression is that the following quote

Larner said she knew Armstrong would be coming into the restaurant

does indeed imply that Larner knew Armstrong was coming, and (deeply as it pains me to offer the Paragraphless Wonder any ammunition) that he had, if not an informal reservation, then at least announced his presence.

However, the following quote

gave him a heads up that Hamilton was eating dinner on the patio with a group ... she extends the same courtesy to divorcees when one is coming in and the other is already there.

to me implies that she told Armstrong "when one was coming in," i.e. that she warned Armstrong not in advance but only when he actually showed up at the restaurant. However, it's all very ambiguous and I look forward to Outside magazine's article. (Both quotes from: http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/147445)

Does anyone have a link to the source for Velonation's quote from Abe Streep? I'd like to read Streep's actual words--where did they get the following info from:

Outside magazine editor Abe Streep reported what happened when Hamilton and Armstrong met in Cache Cache. It was initially suggested that the encounter may have been simply down to chance, but the restaurant owner Jodi Larner, a friend of Armstrong, later confirmed that she had informed the former pro that Hamilton was there having meal.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8...-witness-tampering-charges.aspx#ixzz1Q1iz55eQ

Also, it's not my intention to engage with the Paragraphless Derailleur, but the Aspen Daily News article implies that Armstrong was the one who initiated conversation:

Around 10 p.m. on Saturday, Hamilton walked by Armstrong, who was sitting at the bar with Larner. Armstrong greeted Hamilton in a sarcastic manner.

(see link above to Aspen Daily News article by Curtis Wackerle)

Armstrong "greeted" Hamilton, not the other way around--Larner's own description. As I mentioned in a previous post, the mere fact of this guy's stopping you and talking to you would be intimidating. I'm no lawyer but this doesn't look good for LA. I think Venezuela has no extradition treaty with the US, if his bills run too high Lance could trade in his Austin mansion for a Venezuelan cattle ranch. Texas is in the midst of a record-breaking drought and we need the water more than Lance's mansion does.

 

[Polish]

nothing like a fanboy to distort the facts

I do not know the facts. You do not know the facts.
This is an interwebs shoot the bull forum.

However, at the trial, if it comes out that Tyler knew Lance was sitting in the bar area - then yes, Tyler approached Lance.

Tyler will also be asked under oath if he ever had any plans to write a book.
And if he did/does - how is the publisher search going.
We will finally get to the bottom of that too.

I do not know the facts. You do not know the facts
Only Facts4Lance knows the facts lol

 

[Benotti69]

I do <> know <>bull <>.

<blah snip blah>

you really dont need to use so many words. Allow me

Lets see what the FBI does shall we

 

[thirteen]

Does anyone have a link to the source for Velonation's quote from Abe Streep?

here is the Streep blog: http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2011/06/lance-armstrong-and-tyler-hamilton-walk-into-a-bar.html

as for whether LA was forewarned ahead of time or only when he came in, i'm sure we'll find out eventually... do not think that it could only be the latter, merely because of the wording that TH was eating dinner on the patio. when reservations are made, it is usual to specify inside or outside.

 

[Polish]

here is the Streep blog: http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2011/06/lance-armstrong-and-tyler-hamilton-walk-into-a-bar.html

as for whether LA was forewarned ahead of time or only when he came in, i'm sure we'll find out eventually... do not think that it could only be the latter, merely because of the wording that TH was eating dinner on the patio. when reservations are made, it is usual to specify inside or outside.

No suprise they choose to sit OUTSIDE.

 

[thirteen]

No suprise they choose to sit OUTSIDE.

you are obsessed with that, non?

poor Polish, so upset that tweets were taken down before you had a chance to copy them

 

[Granville57]

Sherwin or Ligget used to be, I believe, the pr man for Motorola when Armstrong was there.

It was Paul Sherwen. He also acted as a translator for Lance when the people from Cofidis came to speak to him in the hospital, at the time of his cancer, regarding his future with the team or lack thereof.

 

[Polish]

you are obsessed with that, non?

poor Polish, so upset that tweets were taken down before you had a chance to copy them

I am not upset that the Floyd "OUTSIDE" reference tweets were removed.
Just curious. Who told him to remove them?

Anyway. this is a Win/Win for both Outside Mag and Cache Cache.
Cache Cache will have a very busy month(s) with all the publicity.
And Outside Mag will sell plenty of copies.

The "Lance Effect" in action once again