Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[cat6cx]

Let’s run through your “possible” timeline of Tyler’s plan
1) Sat 2pm, Receive message from mole at TN airport that LA’s plane is taking off
2) 2:30pm, Release mole’s kidnapped family member used as leverage to obtain information
3) 3:00pm, Set up police scanner east of Aspen airport
4) 3:30pm, Buy coffee and donuts for guys in truck monitoring scanner
5) 4:00pm, Receive call from scanner truck that LA’s plane is landing in Aspen
6) 4:30pm, Determine that LA will be at Cache Cache (actually BTK, you haven’t explained that yet, so far we just know it may be a 43% chance, oh well, close enough for your argument)
7) 6:00pm, Arrive at Cache Cache and eat meal
8) 8:00pm, Use rest room
9) 8:02pm, (This one is cloudy also BTK….) Convince LA to stop TH and berate him.
10) Sunday, Report events to FBI

Ok that adds up, you got me.

Yes indeed everything there is possible (not saying you said it happened, just saying you said it could happen)

Great analysis of BtK’s theory Cat6cx.

But there is one thing bothering me……

If you go through the trouble of kidnapping someone in TN, why rely on a 43% chance that LA will go to Cache Cache (3/7days week)?

mmmmm……That’s it!!

There’s an insider at Cache Cache and it’s Jodi herself!

She tipped off Tyler to the reservation, she served LA drinks and talked smack from behind the bar to fire him up. It's all there. Right under our noses!

Wow, truth is stranger than fiction.

 

[MacRoadie]

"His client threatened a witness in a federal investigation and he just wants to spin some farcical conspiracy theory? This idiotic allegation has less credibility than the infamous Iraqi information minister (Tarik Aziz)."

Attorney says he's alerted feds of Tyler Hamilton's confrontation with Lance Armstrong in Aspen

 

[breakaway]

(A) There appears to be a factual dispute over what was actually said and done in the restaurant.
(B) If the feds thought they had an intimidation case, they would not wait to charge it because, more than anything else, they'd want the BS to stop so their investigation could proceed unhampered.
(C) There is nothing "largely self evident" about proving intent. First: it is an element of the crime that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Second: it isn't something that is "taken" by the "court"--it is something that must be proven to a jury (unless the defendant elects to try the case to the judge). If one juror believes that Lance's only intention was to express himself about Tyler's TV appearance (and not about the GJ testimony), then there will be no guilty verdict.
(D). As far as I can tell, there is still a factual dispute over whether this was a staged media event, whether Lance was stalking Tyler, or whether it was an accidental encounter.

If this were a strong case Lance would be indicted by now.

Great explanation. This can also be applied to the discussion many pages ago about any videotapes at Cache Cache and "tampering with evidence" if they were erased. As always, it all depends on the factual scenario. Just as one hypothetical example, if for instance it was the business's standard practice to erase the tapes every night, tape over them each day to save money or they had a continuous roll that recorded over itself, one would be hard pressed to establish any sort of evidence-tampering claim. Again, it all goes to intent.

Very rarely, if ever, can you read a statute or case opinion and say that "it's all right here" or it's black and white. The factual scenario unique to any particular case is in fact what makes it all one big shade of gray, and explains why law libraries are made up of so many books.

 

[Deagol]

Attorney says he's alerted feds of Tyler Hamilton's confrontation with Lance Armstrong in Aspen

from the article: "It shows how obsessed Hamilton is with Lance," Fabiani said.



Jeez, Fabiani sounds more like BPC everyday. Kind of like someone else here as well ....

 

[dbrower]

Landis's greatest effect is he is winning fans for his actions and making UCI and LA react to his actions that they are making mistakes because of him, ie allegedly suing Landis in SwissBankLand

Yup. The term is "Asymmetric warfare". Sides with power hate it when parties without won't play on the their own terms.

-dB

 

[Cimacoppi49]

(A) There appears to be a factual dispute over what was actually said and done in the restaurant.
(B) If the feds thought they had an intimidation case, they would not wait to charge it because, more than anything else, they'd want the BS to stop so their investigation could proceed unhampered.
(C) There is nothing "largely self evident" about proving intent. First: it is an element of the crime that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Second: it isn't something that is "taken" by the "court"--it is something that must be proven to a jury (unless the defendant elects to try the case to the judge). If one juror believes that Lance's only intention was to express himself about Tyler's TV appearance (and not about the GJ testimony), then there will be no guilty verdict.
(D). As far as I can tell, there is still a factual dispute over whether this was a staged media event, whether Lance was stalking Tyler, or whether it was an accidental encounter.

If this were a strong case Lance would be indicted by now.

Of course there is a factual dispute. Armstrong isn't admitting to doing anything improper. That's what juries are for--resolving issues of fact.

I'm not certain what you are basing your assertions on, but I can tell you that it will be more probable that the witness intimidation offense will be added to the indictment that is expected. It will likely be one of the underlying felonies of a RICO count. The letter apparently sent to Armstrong's counsel will have made clear that tampering is a serious felony.

The jury will decide whether the government has proved all the elements of the alleged crime as they do with all criminal charges. If tampering is added to an indictment, rest assured that the government will be of the position that it can prove the crime alleged beyond a reasonable doubt.

What facts do you have to support the assertion that this was a media set up? Assuming that it was, please explain how/why you feel that gives rise to a defense for Armstrong. Reminder--it isn't entrapment because the government was not involved in the set up, if in fact there was one.

Your conclusion about being indicted by now if there were a strong case tells me one very definite thing. You have very little knowledge of how the criminal justice system actually works.

 

[Polish]

Manderson said it best: "Fabiani's allegation is utter horse----,"

You can believe whoever you want.
I Believe Tyler dot org.

But Fabiani says he has a video.
Saving that video for later?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I thought that the most interesting part of the Outside article was that Floyd is being investigated for the Floyd Fairness Fund. Floyd could go to prison while Lance skates free. In the tax evasion case against UBS the only person who went to prison was the executive who blew the whistle. The bank settled with a large monetary payment to make the criminal charges go away.

 

[hrotha]

I thought that the most interesting part of the Outside article was that Floyd is being investigated for the Floyd Fairness Fund. Floyd could go to prison while Lance skates free.

I don't think the two issues should be linked, and to be completely honest I wouldn't say Landis won't deserve whatever he gets for that scam.

 

[dbrower]

You can believe whoever you want.
I Believe Tyler dot org.

But Fabiani says he has a video.

Where did he say that? I can't recall seeing that claim before.

-dB

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Just heard Peter Falk (Columbo) died. Damn! I know some clinicians were hoping for a retread of him interviewing Cache Cache. Hopefully Novitzky et al will do....

 

[Race Radio]

Where did he say that? I can't recall seeing that claim before.

-dB

That is because Polish made it up

 

[thehog]

I thought that the most interesting part of the Outside article was that Floyd is being investigated for the Floyd Fairness Fund. Floyd could go to prison while Lance skates free. In the tax evasion case against UBS the only person who went to prison was the executive who blew the whistle. The bank settled with a large monetary payment to make the criminal charges go away.

Armstrong helped Floyd set up the FFF. Armstrong even asked members of the Century Tailwind club to donate. The money in the FFF barely came from Joe Smoes like us. It came from big time investors who thought they'd help Floyd out because Lance said so. Floyd won't be going down for this.

 

[Race Radio]

I thought that the most interesting part of the Outside article was that Floyd is being investigated for the Floyd Fairness Fund. Floyd could go to prison while Lance skates free. In the tax evasion case against UBS the only person who went to prison was the executive who blew the whistle. The bank settled with a large monetary payment to make the criminal charges go away.

Did I miss that? Where is it in the article?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Armstrong helped Floyd set up the FFF. Armstrong even asked members of the Century Tailwind club to donate. The money in the FFF barely came from Joe Smoes like us. It came from big time investors who thought they'd help Floyd out because Lance said so. Floyd won't be going down for this.

Maybe Flandis is 'poking the bear' to be mandated by the Feds to explain where the FFF money came from...

Interesting and interestinger...

 

[fatandfast]

Is there another outsideonline article? The one linked on the first post to the thread has a picture of an unemployed 35 year old bike racer in shorts and a fur coat..? The article goes in and out of what Landis says is humor. When he feels he may be caught up he says gray manrod was really Andy from NYCvelocity.

The outside writer says that Landis's goal is to bring Lance down to earth in court. Landis adds some prison sex humor and how Armstrong is practicing getting in peoples face. Not sure if Novitzky is in touch with Landis or Hamilton but there are some simple rules, anywhere on the planet except where Lance is at, the lawyer quoted in the article thinks even tweets taint things.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Did I miss that? Where is it in the article?

From the article: "Landis also says he’s the subject of an ongoing FBI investigation into fundraising activities by his Floyd Fairness Fund."

 

[MacRoadie]

You can believe whoever you want.
I Believe Tyler dot org.

But Fabiani says he has a video.
Saving that video for later?

Fabiani says a lot of shyte. That facts4lance.com site was full of quality work.

I'm sure Armstrong, being the upstanding citizen that he is, and the hapless victim of this affrontation, was quick to pass this video on to the FBI. Because that's what good people do. If they come across information pertinent to an investigation, especially evidence which may prove to be exculpatroy, they turn it over to the authorities immediately.

 

[Anonymous]

Is there another outsideonline article? The one linked on the first post to the thread has a picture of an unemployed 35 year old bike racer in shorts and a fur coat..? The article goes in and out of what Landis says is humor. When he feels he may be caught up he says gray manrod was really Andy from NYCvelocity.

The outside writer says that Landis's goal is to bring Lance down to earth in court. Landis adds some prison sex humor and how Armstrong is practicing getting in peoples face. Not sure if Novitzky is in touch with Landis or Hamilton but there are some simple rules, anywhere on the planet except where Lance is at, the lawyer quoted in the article thinks even tweets taint things.

You said "tanit"

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

You said "tanit"

No, he said "taint"...

Made me laugh, too....

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Maybe Flandis is 'poking the bear' to be mandated by the Feds to explain where the FFF money came from...

Interesting and interestinger...

This is why I do not feel too bad about the FFF. Most of the money came from Lance's friends. They donated so that Floyd could attack the french lab that found EPO in Lance's 1999 urine samples. I do not see them as victims. It is people like that who led Floyd down a dead end road.

The ordinary people who donated to the FFF were just plain stupid. They probably would have donated to an O.J. Simpson fund to find the real killers.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

This is why I do not feel too bad about the FFF. Most of the money came from Lance's friends. They donated so that Floyd could attack the french lab that found EPO in Lance's 1999 urine samples. I do not see them as victims. It is people like that who led Floyd down a dead end road.

The ordinary people who donated to the FFF were just plain stupid. They probably would have donated to an O.J. Simpson fund to find the real killers.

Exactly.

I can't help but thinking that Flandis is a whole less crazier (and potentially a whole lot craftier) than he's given credit for...

Pardon the butchery of grammar, I don't want Mac coming down on me with a lesson

 

[hrotha]

This is why I do not feel too bad about the FFF. Most of the money came from Lance's friends. They donated so that Floyd could attack the french lab that found EPO in Lance's 1999 urine samples. I do not see them as victims. It is people like that who led Floyd down a dead end road.

The ordinary people who donated to the FFF were just plain stupid. They probably would have donated to an O.J. Simpson fund to find the real killers.

Stupid people and those particularly vulnerable, like the elderly, fall for scams all the time. Doesn't make it any less of a scam.

 

[fatandfast]

taint right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboxu9-qG-E

 

[lancaster]

who is BPC? (genuine question)