Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MacRoadie]

Since we are discussing "How EPO caused Lance's Cancer" for the hundredth time over there in the "Lance PeePee" thread, we should probably start the ".org versus .com" debate for the millionth time over here in this thread.

Hey, you opened your mouth with the "Livestrong.com had a record number of hits last month." comment. If you don't like where that goes, then keep quiet.

 

[Dallas_]

Bit of light reading from Spain

http://www.uniradioinforma.com/noticias/articulo44411.html

After google translation

"The request of U.S. authorities in this regard was because the seven-time champion of the Tour de France is involved in a case of fraud and tax evasion in the collection of insurance policies that were rejected for suspicion of doping around athlete"

The way I interpret info, according to this Spanish site, fraud and tax evasion is related to the SCA case. refer to my original post #112

Has LA and/or his cohorts not declared the 7.5m$?

Is Novi treating the SCA case as fraud?

This poster could be barking up the wrong tree!

http://www.uniradioinforma.com/noticias/articulo44411.html

When Novi was at the round table in Europe, he was collaborating as well as digging for info.

Maybe one of the participants got a clue to this angle from Novi's questions!

cheers

 

[BotanyBay]

Apparently Cobblestoned still checks his PMs (LOL).

 

[Oldman]

Sounds like bad news for Ochowicz and maybe Weasel as well.

The tax evasion angle may be some relatively inconsequential element like laundering funds to buy PEDs. Unless, of course, Lance misused Foundation money for his own needs. Or Tailwind Sports, etc. laundered expenses...
All minor business practices that add up to an indictment.
Keep remembering Al Capone...it's the details that are damning.

 

[BotanyBay]

The tax evasion angle may be some relatively inconsequential element like laundering funds to buy PEDs. Unless, of course, Lance misused Foundation money for his own needs. Or Tailwind Sports, etc. laundered expenses...
All minor business practices that add up to an indictment.
Keep remembering Al Capone...it's the details that are damning.

It sounds like the IRS is involved (and perhaps always has been). They'll have a much easier time nailing him on financial impropriety than anything else.

And he already seems to have trouble keeping his story straight on what he owns and what he doesn't own.

 

[BotanyBay]

Andreu / Stapleton / Knaggs conversation transcript here.

 

[Polish]

Hey, you opened your mouth with the "Livestrong.com had a record number of hits last month." comment. If you don't like where that goes, then keep quiet.

Hey, I'm as guilty as the next guy when it comes to joining in on the .org vs .com threads. I wasn't really complaining - that would be a bit hipppocritical. But sometimes it IS hard to come up with new stuff.

BTW, Demand Media stock (DMD) was up 1.6% today.
Google (GOOG) was up 0.2%.

 

[Cloxxki]

Random thought.
Writing contest to list LA's crimes, in 3 categories: 40, 100, and 500 words. Points to be won not leaving out stuff, points deducted for just summing up rather than crafting informative sentences. I bet even with 500 words, some huge issues will need to be left unmentioned.

 

[Polish]

Random thought.
Writing contest to list LA's crimes, in 3 categories: 40, 100, and 500 words. Points to be won not leaving out stuff, points deducted for just summing up rather than crafting informative sentences. I bet even with 500 words, some huge issues will need to be left unmentioned.

How about Haiku...

was lance a donkey
biggest fraud or biggest stud
summertime revealed

 

[Willy_Voet]

Let's do Limericks:

There once was a donkey named Lance
Who had Juan Pelota in his pants
His libito not bothered
He dated chicks like his mother
While winning seven tours in France

 

[BroDeal]

The tax evasion angle may be some relatively inconsequential element like laundering funds to buy PEDs. Unless, of course, Lance misused Foundation money for his own needs. Or Tailwind Sports, etc. laundered expenses...
All minor business practices that add up to an indictment.
Keep remembering Al Capone...it's the details that are damning.

Perhaps, but I have a hard time believing that FLandis was the only person that Ochowicz talked to about hiding income.

Secondly, on many and maybe most teams it is standard procedure for team equipment and property to disappear. People supplement their income by selling it, and none of that gets reported

 

[blackcat]

The tax evasion angle may be some relatively inconsequential element like laundering funds to buy PEDs. Unless, of course, Lance misused Foundation money for his own needs. Or Tailwind Sports, etc. laundered expenses...
All minor business practices that add up to an indictment.
Keep remembering Al Capone...it's the details that are damning.

well he was transporting his PEDs on his plane, and Livestrong were footing the bill for gas.

 

[Oldman]

well he was transporting his PEDs on his plane, and Livestrong were footing the bill for gas.

If he were then that would be bad for him, wouldn't it?

 

[flicker]

The never ending hate for Armstrong is astounding,
Where it comes from I can only speculate,
I learn from everyone about Lance, doping USPS,
Mostly I learn about the posters here,
Infatuated by something they know nothing about,
Still my faith in good, sportsmanship and honesty
lives(in the bizarre, ambiguous world of pro cycling)
I realize Lance and Johann have kept the faith in pro cycling
Enjoy these great athletes, and may your dreams come true,
I ride away with my girlfriend, like Napolean Dynamite leaving
you with a gem,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkvnbL18dkE&feature=related

 

[Race Radio]

Perhaps, but I have a hard time believing that FLandis was the only person that Ochowicz talked to about hiding income.

Secondly, on many and maybe most teams it is standard procedure for team equipment and property to disappear. People supplement their income by selling it, and none of that gets reported

Bags of cash......Appearance fees are an excellent way to pay the doctor

 

[Dallas_]

Bags of cash......Appearance fees are an excellent way to pay the doctor

So in that scenario, appearance payments can also be hidden from the IRS?

cheers

 

[andy1234]

So in that scenario, appearance payments can also be hidden from the IRS?

cheers

Anyone know how many days Armstrong spent in the US during those years?
I'm wondering what percentage of his earnings were due to be taxed in in the US and what percentage were due to be taxed in Europe.
I would imagine that a split would create a level of complexity, in a US tax evasion charge.

 

[thehog]

I've commented significantly on the SCA case on this board. I've been close to a couple of people involved in the investigation in relation to SCA.*

The biggest issue stemming from the trial is one of facilitation and "fair play". Arbitration is fundamental to democracy. Law makers look down on any organisation or persons attempting to hijack the process. Arbitration is the core process for people to resolve conflict without the need for full blown court proceedings. Without arbitration our court systems would be weighed down with proceedings such as the SCA case. Arbitration is not governed in the same strict manner as regular court and convention rules its operation. Law makers and governments want parties to resolve differences at an arbitration level before even thinking of sending "I'm going to sue you" type letters. SCA played fair. That wanted to establish if it was reasonable to pay Armstrong his insurance payout considering that he might have cheated in qualifying for the money. Arbitration is absolutely the right way to go - to clarify the law - and to interpret the contract based on law and original intent.

Unfortunately in this case Armstrong & co. hijacked the entire proceedings. SCA were mislead. The law was mislead. The judge was mislead. It is now irrelevant whether the SCA contract had a "drug usage" stipulation - much too late to settle on that basis - what is at stake is the law has been broken *in a very serious way. The lying, the witness tampering, the falsification of evidence and court documents and the blatant disregard for the law will ensure the government will come down extremely hard on Armstrong. The fundamental reason is the integrity of the entire process is at stake. Derail arbitration and your court system becomes bloated and full of meaningless cases which could have easily been settled at a 4 hour meeting.*

Armstrong didn't mess with the SCA, Betsie or anyone else at this trial - he messed with the law and a fundamental government process - he will hang for this. You don't pull this type of *** with law and policy makers.

Another question that comes up in relation to SCA is what recourse do they have to recover the monies. A lot. Arbitration had clearly failed. There was a hatchet job. One side played fair, one side didn't. They will wait to charges are laid against Armstrong and strike. They may even wait for a verdict on the government case before sueing. There is a tremendous amount of testomony they will now have access to once the Feds conclude their investigation. The contrat is irrelevant now. They will sue for reputational damage along with a raft of other claims. Armstrong would have to settle. He can't let all the GJ testomony seep out in a civil trial.*

SCA civil claims aside there will be several criminal charges stemming from this proceedings.*

Taking drug to win a sporting event is one thing - lying to in court and derailing democracy is entirely different set of circumstances.*

The way I interpret info, according to this Spanish site, fraud and tax evasion is related to the SCA case. refer to my original post #112

Has LA and/or his cohorts not declared the 7.5m$?

Is Novi treating the SCA case as fraud?

This poster could be barking up the wrong tree!

http://www.uniradioinforma.com/noticias/articulo44411.html

When Novi was at the round table in Europe, he was collaborating as well as digging for info.

Maybe one of the participants got a clue to this angle from Novi's questions!

cheers

 

[hughmoore]

The never ending hate for Armstrong is astounding,
Where it comes from I can only speculate,
I learn from everyone about Lance, doping USPS,
Mostly I learn about the posters here,
Infatuated by something they know nothing about,
Still my faith in good, sportsmanship and honesty
lives(in the bizarre, ambiguous world of pro cycling)
I realize Lance and Johann have kept the faith in pro cycling
Enjoy these great athletes, and may your dreams come true,
I ride away with my girlfriend, like Napolean Dynamite leaving
you with a gem,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkvnbL18dkE&feature=related

Great win by Di Luca, strong finish.

 

[Race Radio]

Anyone know how many days Armstrong spent in the US during those years?
I'm wondering what percentage of his earnings were due to be taxed in in the US and what percentage were due to be taxed in Europe.
I would imagine that a split would create a level of complexity, in a US tax evasion charge.

As long as he spent less then 182 days in Europe he would owe no tax. He watched this closely and never paid European taxes. The French tried once but it went nowhere.

 

[patricknd]

Still flat.

The .org must not work as hard as the .com. Maybe they have French employees?

Italian, they're lazier




And that is only a joke

 

[Oldman]

I've commented significantly on the SCA case on this board. I've been close to a couple of people involved in the investigation in relation to SCA.*

The biggest issue stemming from the trial is one of facilitation and "fair play". Arbitration is fundamental to democracy. Law makers look down on any organisation or persons attempting to hijack the process. Arbitration is the core process for people to resolve conflict without the need for full blown court proceedings. Without arbitration our court systems would be weighed down with proceedings such as the SCA case. Arbitration is not governed in the same strict manner as regular court and convention rules its operation. Law makers and governments want parties to resolve differences at an arbitration level before even thinking of sending "I'm going to sue you" type letters. SCA played fair. That wanted to establish if it was reasonable to pay Armstrong his insurance payout considering that he might have cheated in qualifying for the money. Arbitration is absolutely the right way to go - to clarify the law - and to interpret the contract based on law and original intent.

Unfortunately in this case Armstrong & co. hijacked the entire proceedings. SCA were mislead. The law was mislead. The judge was mislead. It is now irrelevant whether the SCA contract had a "drug usage" stipulation - much too late to settle on that basis - what is at stake is the law has been broken *in a very serious way. The lying, the witness tampering, the falsification of evidence and court documents and the blatant disregard for the law will ensure the government will come down extremely hard on Armstrong. The fundamental reason is the integrity of the entire process is at stake. Derail arbitration and your court system becomes bloated and full of meaningless cases which could have easily been settled at a 4 hour meeting.*

Armstrong didn't mess with the SCA, Betsie or anyone else at this trial - he messed with the law and a fundamental government process - he will hang for this. You don't pull this type of *** with law and policy makers.

Another question that comes up in relation to SCA is what recourse do they have to recover the monies. A lot. Arbitration had clearly failed. There was a hatchet job. One side played fair, one side didn't. They will wait to charges are laid against Armstrong and strike. They may even wait for a verdict on the government case before sueing. There is a tremendous amount of testomony they will now have access to once the Feds conclude their investigation. The contrat is irrelevant now. They will sue for reputational damage along with a raft of other claims. Armstrong would have to settle. He can't let all the GJ testomony seep out in a civil trial.*SCA civil claims aside there will be several criminal charges stemming from this proceedings.*

Taking drug to win a sporting event is one thing - lying to in court and derailing democracy is entirely different set of circumstances.*

IMO the Feds would use contradictory testimony in their USADA case to establish the perjury element based on the SCA case, not pursue that case as a criminal matter. As noted before; that would leave the aggreived party to pursue Armstrong and the scenario would probably play out as you have stated-Lance would settle (or should). Ultimately I think the USADA case will have it's political focus and element on controlled substance distribution, illegal transfer of funds and perhaps some fraud. They are partially seeking a message(s); don't mess with the legal drug supply and don't expect celebrity to save you. Martha Stewart's skin tone is similar to Lance's in that neither looks good in Orange.

 

[Deagol]

The full quote is in from Lance to Landis which I gave to a friend. From memory it's 'because the other option is all out war in a french court room and everybody's gonna testify and it could rip rip the whole sport apart.'

Thanks ....

 

[Dallas_]

Perhaps it is time to re-post some revealing links about miracle boy.

The following link includes a very informative 50 page report "LANCE ARMSTRONG'S DOPING HISTORY"

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/11/8-things-on-lance-armstrong-from-other.html

have a good day

 

[Granville57]

The next agenda

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0228-lance-armstrong-ballot-20110228,0,880722.story

Lance Armstrong the seven-time Tour de France winner who announced his retirement earlier this month, will kick off a state ballot initiative campaign in Los Angeles on Monday for a measure that would direct hundreds of millions of dollars toward cancer research by levying an additional $1 tax on cigarettes and other tobacco products.

I expect to see an awful lot more of this in the coming weeks.
"He's too valuable to prosecute!" will be the mantra.