Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Cobblestoned]

Lance and Luke arrive in Grenoble

Lance at a post-Tour party in Paris

 

[MarkvW]

I think the investigation is a colossal waste of time money. If you hadnt noticed, the US is in a debt crisis of unparalelled proportion.

I would rather they investigate Wall Street, why CEOs make thousands of times what the base worker does, why the save the banks bailout resulted in huge windfall profits for the money guys.

Ah, you forget the salving balm of restitution. The rich Postie bosses are not judgment proof. If they lose, they will pay.

Is there any indication that the investigation is actively proceeding at this time?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Novitzky works for the Food and Drug Administration, which has nothing to do with Wall Street, finances and so forth. Or are you suggesting the government save money by closing down the FDA?

Susan

 

[mewmewmew13]

Just had a conversation with a friend who is a former Federal prosecutor. He has no information other than what has been published. He thinks that a sealed indictment may well have been handed down. If not, one is imminent as evidenced by Armstrong's counsel's attack on the Grand Jury proceedings and the recent quietness of Armstrong and his PR flacks. He read the filing alleging leaks. Pure, desperate garbage in his view.

The show will be starting very soon.

Yay!
Thanks for a vote of confidence that things are still progressing Cimacoppi. Everyone gets impatient and just because there is silence for a while doesn't indicate that things are amiss.

Sounds like you have had some interesting experiences. I have read some stories and seen pix of some of the NY area racing from those days...a lot of fascinating and fun folks were involved and some great memories.

btw Davis P is a great guy and has a killer sense of humour.

 

[davestoller]

Novitzky works for the Food and Drug Administration, which has nothing to do with Wall Street, finances and so forth. Or are you suggesting the government save money by closing down the FDA?

Susan

Thanks for telling me what I learned in 9th grade (that's fourteen years old to you non US people) civics class.

The point I make, which you may disagree with, is that this investigation is a huge waste of federal resources in a time where they could be better spent pursuing the real criminals. Period. Waste. Of. Money.

The real money and the real crimes were committed on Wall Street and that's where the priorities of the US prosecutors belong. These are federal prosecutors. That's a big big deal. To use the time and money and energy of bigtime federal prosecutors going after some small time supposed doping on a bike team-yes, ten years ago in France-- is (if it werent actually true) laughable.

But maybe you dont keep up with the general views of the runaway federal law jurisdictions. From this week in WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html

Yes, you read my post exactly right--I was suggesting that they shut down the FDA. Brilliant deduction there.

BTW, I am not going to get into it because of my work--but the FDA is an agency in full blown crisis mode. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. When drugs are routinely approved that shouldnt be, devices approved that shouldnt be, food safety issues at an all time high--I think when this whole thing blows over they will have a lot to answer for.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Thanks for telling me what I learned in 9th grade (that's fourteen years old to you non US people) civics class.

The point I make, which you may disagree with, is that this investigation is a huge waste of federal resources in a time where they could be better spent pursuing the real criminals. Period. Waste. Of. Money.

The real money and the real crimes were committed on Wall Street and that's where the priorities of the US prosecutors belong. These are federal prosecutors. That's a big big deal. To use the time and money and energy of bigtime federal prosecutors going after some small time supposed doping on a bike team-yes, ten years ago in France-- is (if it werent actually true) laughable.

But maybe you dont keep up with the general views of the runaway federal law jurisdictions. From this week in WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html

Yes, you read my post exactly right--I was suggesting that they shut down the FDA. Brilliant deduction there.

BTW, I am not going to get into it because of my work--but the FDA is an agency in full blown crisis mode. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. When drugs are routinely approved that shouldnt be, devices approved that shouldnt be, food safety issues at an all time high--I think when this whole thing blows over they will have a lot to answer for.

The US Government is in full blown crisis mode but I don't think it's smart to just 'can' it.

"waste of taxpayers' money" blah blah blah....

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Thanks for telling me what I learned in 9th grade (that's fourteen years old to you non US people) civics class.

The point I make, which you may disagree with, is that this investigation is a huge waste of federal resources in a time where they could be better spent pursuing the real criminals. Period. Waste. Of. Money.

The real money and the real crimes were committed on Wall Street and that's where the priorities of the US prosecutors belong. These are federal prosecutors. That's a big big deal. To use the time and money and energy of bigtime federal prosecutors going after some small time supposed doping on a bike team-yes, ten years ago in France-- is (if it werent actually true) laughable.

But maybe you dont keep up with the general views of the runaway federal law jurisdictions. From this week in WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html

Yes, you read my post exactly right--I was suggesting that they shut down the FDA. Brilliant deduction there.

BTW, I am not going to get into it because of my work--but the FDA is an agency in full blown crisis mode. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. When drugs are routinely approved that shouldnt be, devices approved that shouldnt be, food safety issues at an all time high--I think when this whole thing blows over they will have a lot to answer for.

Yada, yada, yada. Say hello to Fabiani and the RNC.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Lance and Luke arrive in Grenoble

Lance at a post-Tour party in Paris

Chapeau!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Thanks for telling me what I learned in 9th grade (that's fourteen years old to you non US people) civics class.

The point I make, which you may disagree with, is that this investigation is a huge waste of federal resources in a time where they could be better spent pursuing the real criminals. Period. Waste. Of. Money.

See - it costs money to pay all these people to employ them to do their job, so if they are not doing their job that is a waste of money.

The real money and the real crimes were committed on Wall Street and that's where the priorities of the US prosecutors belong. These are federal prosecutors. That's a big big deal. To use the time and money and energy of bigtime federal prosecutors going after some small time supposed doping on a bike team-yes, ten years ago in France-- is (if it werent actually true) laughable.

Small time? Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure. Whats laughable is that you think these crimes are 10 years old.

But maybe you dont keep up with the general views of the runaway federal law jurisdictions. From this week in WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html

Yes, you read my post exactly right--I was suggesting that they shut down the FDA. Brilliant deduction there.

BTW, I am not going to get into it because of my work--but the FDA is an agency in full blown crisis mode. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. When drugs are routinely approved that shouldnt be, devices approved that shouldnt be, food safety issues at an all time high--I think when this whole thing blows over they will have a lot to answer for.

You do realize that this investigation has extended beyond the FDA? Would you like the DOJ and FBI gone too?

 

[Poursuivant]

So how would one of these secret indictments work? How would it be revealed?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for telling me what I learned in 9th grade (that's fourteen years old to you non US people) civics class.

The point I make, which you may disagree with, is that this investigation is a huge waste of federal resources in a time where they could be better spent pursuing the real criminals. Period. Waste. Of. Money.

The real money and the real crimes were committed on Wall Street and that's where the priorities of the US prosecutors belong. These are federal prosecutors. That's a big big deal. To use the time and money and energy of bigtime federal prosecutors going after some small time supposed doping on a bike team-yes, ten years ago in France-- is (if it werent actually true) laughable.

But maybe you dont keep up with the general views of the runaway federal law jurisdictions. From this week in WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html

Yes, you read my post exactly right--I was suggesting that they shut down the FDA. Brilliant deduction there.

BTW, I am not going to get into it because of my work--but the FDA is an agency in full blown crisis mode. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. When drugs are routinely approved that shouldnt be, devices approved that shouldnt be, food safety issues at an all time high--I think when this whole thing blows over they will have a lot to answer for.

No, real crimes were committed in both places. But you believe in selective justice based on the fact that you hero worship. I understand, it's cool. The good news is that there are plenty of cheap Lance posters on ebay!

 

[Velodude]

See - it costs money to pay all these people to employ them to do their job, so if they are not doing their job that is a waste of money.


Small time? Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure. Whats laughable is that you think these crimes are 10 years old.


You do realize that this investigation has extended beyond the FDA? Would you like the DOJ and FBI gone too?

And the amicable IRS.

 

[MarkvW]

Shut down the FDA?

PLEASE read Upton Sinclair's book "The Jungle!" We need the Pure Food and Drug Act.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Do not feed the troll.

Davestoller obviously has a hard time with functional reality, and an even harder time constructing a sound argument.

Put the ScoobySnax away. There is no winning with these 'tards...

 

[Polish]

Looks like Lance is up to his "old tricks" at RAGBRAI in Iowa:
Maybe Simeoni is riding RAGBRAI?
Or Bassons?

&#8220]

Yikes.
Lance is such a turd

http://www.carrollspaper.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=12444
.
ps.....Lance sure looks fat. And old. Shifty eyes.....
.

 

[yourwelcome]

Novitzky works for the Food and Drug Administration, which has nothing to do with Wall Street, finances and so forth. Or are you suggesting the government save money by closing down the FDA?

Susan

Don't you think that's a petty exaggeration of the comment you're responding to?

Secondly, if they had wrapped this up a few months ago it would be fine, but right now real world events are changing the 'waste of money' commentary from a transparent PR move from LA's camp to a reasonable sounding criticism.

With US political governance and government finances in meltdown right now, with social security heading for massive cuts and infrastructure left crumbling, NASA reduced to hitching rides on Russian rockets due to funding cuts, I can see the 'waste of money' tactic actually getting traction.

For better or worse, the USA's misfortune would be Lance's saviour. He's probably bombarding the Republican congress members on a daily basis urging them to hold the line on forcing the government into default.

 

[Oldman]

Don't you think that's a petty exaggeration of the comment you're responding to?

Secondly, if they had wrapped this up a few months ago it would be fine, but right now real world events are changing the 'waste of money' commentary from a transparent PR move from LA's camp to a reasonable sounding criticism.

With US political governance and government finances in meltdown right now, with social security heading for massive cuts and infrastructure left crumbling, NASA reduced to hitching rides on Russian rockets due to funding cuts, I can see the 'waste of money' tactic actually getting traction.

For better or worse, the USA's misfortune would be Lance's saviour. He's probably bombarding the Republican congress members on a daily basis urging them to hold the line on forcing the government into default.

You're confusing political posturing and brinksmanship with reality. Bill Clinton went through the same thing the last time the Republicans felt they had a "mandate". As for NASA you can chalk some of that up to a policy of encouraging private industry to get into the satellite transport business instead of having the Space Shuttle schlep/repair space garbage. It's not like technological advances have stopped as a result so that's largely an irrelevant argument if any of your posits have merit.
LA's problem is being part of a bigger fraud and you, his PR people and his benefactors all know it. The fact his profile is low should tell you that he's facing this fact.

 

[Polish]

LA's problem is being part of a bigger fraud and you, his PR people and his benefactors all know it. The fact his profile is low should tell you that he's facing this fact.

Many millions do not and will not see fraud.
I for one do not.

From a knowledgeable cycling fan's perspective - no fraud.
Sure, he used PEDs. But probably less than many others.

And the sleeping in a tent and wind tunnel work and watching his diet and reconning courses and and and and and and and and ACTUALLY WORK.

Mocking and denying that reveals foolishness.

And the helping and inspiring of many many many thousands of Cancer survivors - no fraud.
It is REAL. Not imaginary. Not a fraud. REAL. It happened. Its happening.

And the "PR people" or "benefactors" or you have nothing to do with it NOT being a fraud.

When the FEDs finally launch their indictments, drumroll please, there will be a "perfect storm" of backlash imo. Will make the Bond's and Clemen's mistrials seem like gentle summer rains.

 

[Velodude]

Many millions do not and will not see fraud.
I for one do not.

From a knowledgeable cycling fan's perspective - no fraud.
Sure, he used PEDs. But probably less than many others.

Oxymoron? If you concede he took PEDs then he was required to commit numerous frauds and other crimes to access, administer and cover up those PEDs. Breaching USPS contract non doping clause 2002-2004, laundering money to purchase PEDs, likewise income tax evasion relating to funding of PEDs, alleged bribery of UCI, acquiring PEDs without a prescription, being in illegal possession of field trial drugs, carrying out medical procedures whilst unlicensed, etc..

And the sleeping in a tent and wind tunnel work and watching his diet and reconning courses and and and and and and and and ACTUALLY WORK.

Mocking and denying that reveals foolishness.

Can you refer to proper controlled studies where altitude tents provided a beneficial increase in Hct?

FAQ - Wallace Altitude Tent
7Q. Will my Hematocrit level rise? (Results)
A: Not necessarily. In many cases it has, in some cases it has not. We have seen very little correlation between hematocrit change and increase in performance. This was confirmed in a recent independent HYPOXIC ALTITUDE TENT study where, although the "tent group" showed significant gains, there was no change in hematocrit.

And the helping and inspiring of many many many thousands of Cancer survivors - no fraud.
It is REAL. Not imaginary. Not a fraud. REAL. It happened. Its happening.

But there could exist frauds within the LAF "Livestrong" charity to the extent that funds have been deprived from cancer sufferers.

Proper probing questions have been put concerning grossly excessive industry comparative costs in LAF travelling expenses and professional costs including legal costs. These questions remain unanswered when those excessive costs are under suspicion to relate privately to its founder, Mr. Lance Edward Armstrong.

LAF sold its rights to the perpetual use of the trade mark "Livestrong" to a third party. Mr. Armstrong and his company received the same consideration for that arrangement as LAF.

And the "PR people" or "benefactors" or you have nothing to do with it NOT being a fraud.

When the FEDs finally launch their indictments, drumroll please, there will be a "perfect storm" of backlash imo. Will make the Bond's and Clemen's mistrials seem like gentle summer rains.

To have a mistrial the trial must have started. The storm you prophesise will erupt will be after the issue of the indictments. Can you provide a precedent in the US where public opinion have caused a trial to be abandoned before starting?

 

[Velodude]

Many millions do not and will not see fraud.
I for one do not.

From a knowledgeable cycling fan's perspective - no fraud.
Sure, he used PEDs. But probably less than many others.

Oxymoron? If you concede he took PEDs then he was required to commit numerous frauds and other crimes to access, administer and cover up those PEDs. Breaching USPS contract non doping clause 2002-2004, laundering money to purchase PEDs, likewise income tax evasion relating to funding of PEDs, alleged bribery of UCI, acquiring PEDs without a prescription, being in illegal possession of field trial drugs, carrying out medical procedures whilst unlicensed, etc..

And the sleeping in a tent and wind tunnel work and watching his diet and reconning courses and and and and and and and and ACTUALLY WORK.

Mocking and denying that reveals foolishness.

Can you refer to proper controlled studies where altitude tents provided a beneficial increase in Hct?

FAQ - Wallace Altitude Tent
7Q. Will my Hematocrit level rise? (Results)
A: Not necessarily. In many cases it has, in some cases it has not. We have seen very little correlation between hematocrit change and increase in performance. This was confirmed in a recent independent HYPOXIC ALTITUDE TENT study where, although the "tent group" showed significant gains, there was no change in hematocrit.

And the helping and inspiring of many many many thousands of Cancer survivors - no fraud.
It is REAL. Not imaginary. Not a fraud. REAL. It happened. Its happening.

But there could exist frauds within the LAF "Livestrong" charity to the extent that funds have been deprived from cancer sufferers.

Proper probing questions have been put concerning grossly excessive industry comparative costs in LAF travelling expenses and professional costs including legal costs. These questions remain unanswered when those excessive costs are under suspicion to relate privately to its founder, Mr. Lance Edward Armstrong.

LAF sold its rights to the perpetual use of the trade mark "Livestrong" to a third party. Mr. Armstrong and his company received the same consideration for that arrangement as LAF.

And the "PR people" or "benefactors" or you have nothing to do with it NOT being a fraud.

When the FEDs finally launch their indictments, drumroll please, there will be a "perfect storm" of backlash imo. Will make the Bond's and Clemen's mistrials seem like gentle summer rains.

To have a mistrial the trial must have started. The storm you prophesise will erupt will be after the issue of the indictments. Can you provide a precedent in the US where public opinion have caused a trial to be abandoned before starting?

 

[Paco_P]

Thanks for telling me what I learned in 9th grade (that's fourteen years old to you non US people) civics class.

The point I make, which you may disagree with, is that this investigation is a huge waste of federal resources in a time where they could be better spent pursuing the real criminals. Period. Waste. Of. Money.

The real money and the real crimes were committed on Wall Street and that's where the priorities of the US prosecutors belong. These are federal prosecutors. That's a big big deal. To use the time and money and energy of bigtime federal prosecutors going after some small time supposed doping on a bike team-yes, ten years ago in France-- is (if it werent actually true) laughable.

But maybe you dont keep up with the general views of the runaway federal law jurisdictions. From this week in WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html

Yes, you read my post exactly right--I was suggesting that they shut down the FDA. Brilliant deduction there.

BTW, I am not going to get into it because of my work--but the FDA is an agency in full blown crisis mode. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. When drugs are routinely approved that shouldnt be, devices approved that shouldnt be, food safety issues at an all time high--I think when this whole thing blows over they will have a lot to answer for.

So it's too easy to get drugs approved and too expensive to prosecute those who use those few drugs that are not approved, or whose use and traffic is even outright illegal. Moreover, the solution is to eliminate the regulatory agency that does not regulate enough, and focus prosecutorial efforts on behavior which is completely legal under currently inadequate (because of the destruction of regulatory authority) US banking and finance laws?

The real criminals are those who believe the absence of governmental regulation and the free market are the same thing (the absence of governmental regulation leads to monopolistic control, the antithesis of the free market, and something like what the US actually has) and that the profit motive will cause thieves to behave better.

 

[veganrob]

So it's too easy to get drugs approved and too expensive to prosecute those who use those few drugs that are not approved, or whose use and traffic is even outright illegal. Moreover, the solution is to eliminate the regulatory agency that does not regulate enough, and focus prosecutorial efforts on behavior which is completely legal under currently inadequate (because of the destruction of regulatory authority) US banking and finance laws?

The real criminals are those who believe the absence of governmental regulation and the free market are the same thing (the absence of governmental regulation leads to monopolistic control, the antithesis of the free market, and something like what the US actually has) and that the profit motive will cause thieves to behave better.

Bravo, Paco. Very well said.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Bravo, Paco. Very well said.

Well said, indeed. Does this mean that the Fanboys are really Crypto-Anarchists who pray every night to Bakunin? Who would have thought such people were still alive and on the Internet?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Many millions do not and will not see fraud.
I for one do not.
[snip]

Now that's funny. Post of the week.

 

[thehog]

Just had a conversation with a friend who is a former Federal prosecutor. He has no information other than what has been published. He thinks that a sealed indictment may well have been handed down. If not, one is imminent as evidenced by Armstrong's counsel's attack on the Grand Jury proceedings and the recent quietness of Armstrong and his PR flacks. He read the filing alleging leaks. Pure, desperate garbage in his view.

The show will be starting very soon.

I've heard much the same. A letter has already been sent and received.