Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Benotti69]

You guys sure seem to know a lot about Lance Armstrong's personal and financial life.

Not as much as the FDA, FBI and the IRS i bet

 

[Neworld]

This guy must be friggin joking

http://www.mellowjohnnys.com/juan-pelota-cafe/

Kiwi Blend
Named for the Mellow Johnny’s mechanic hailing from the Waikato Region of New Zealand’s North Island, our Kiwi Blend fittingly draws beans from all over the planet.

Well we know that it is not M. Anderson, sorry Mike...or actually, more like lucky you. Wonder if Lance has ever been to Rotorua...it sure smells there, but at least the people are likeable and honest.

I wonder if they have the ...

"Diabolical Decaf"

"You may think this unworldly cup of Java is clean and free of caffeine and other paraxanthines/theophylline but its actually raging with Gironaesk qualities of agression and bullish potential, leaving your palate with a gritty, stored in a fridge, dirty finish on the tongue."

NW

 

[doolols]

He is an inexhaustible source of inspiration to us all.

Funniest thing I've read in ages. He's also an inexhaustible source of gossip and innuendo. When he goes down, who will replace him in The Clinic?

 

[fatandfast]

Funniest thing I've read in ages. He's also an inexhaustible source of gossip and innuendo. When he goes down, who will replace him in The Clinic?

Look at the numbers. CN has nothing that creates page views like anything Armstrong. His positive and negative traits are gold to everybody involved. The guy is a premier Trek dealer and sells 1000's in coffee as a non racer. His name, used an unpaid are a benefit to any cycling website.

Armstrong has created a mystery so deep that as it is unraveled everybody benefits. Who would even talk to Landis or Hamilton if not about Lance? What thread or subject gets both polarized sides to converse? He is gold to the sport,all those involved know it and are afraid of the day when his influence is gone completely . Nobody can replace Lance

 

[thehog]

Nobody can replace Lance

This you are right about about. And we never ever want a replacement for him ever.

 

[VeloCity]

all those involved know it and are afraid of the day when his influence is gone completely

Odd, as a pretty hardcore cycling fan, I'm not afraid of that day whatsoever. Quite looking forward to it, actually.

 

[Velodude]

Look at the numbers. CN has nothing that creates page views like anything Armstrong. His positive and negative traits are gold to everybody involved. The guy is a premier Trek dealer and sells 1000's in coffee as a non racer. His name, used an unpaid are a benefit to any cycling website.

Armstrong has created a mystery so deep that as it is unraveled everybody benefits. Who would even talk to Landis or Hamilton if not about Lance? What thread or subject gets both polarized sides to converse? He is gold to the sport,all those involved know it and are afraid of the day when his influence is gone completely . Nobody can replace Lance

fatandfast, you are only positing the societal effects of Armstrong's increasing infamy.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Look at the numbers. CN has nothing that creates page views like anything Armstrong. His positive and negative traits are gold to everybody involved. The guy is a premier Trek dealer and sells 1000's in coffee as a non racer. His name, used an unpaid are a benefit to any cycling website.

Armstrong has created a mystery so deep that as it is unraveled everybody benefits. Who would even talk to Landis or Hamilton if not about Lance? What thread or subject gets both polarized sides to converse? He is gold to the sport,all those involved know it and are afraid of the day when his influence is gone completely . Nobody can replace Lance

When he's in prison maybe the Bureau of Prisons can sell tickets to see him while he's incarcerated.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...-PHOAg&usg=AFQjCNEVGx2K4g3LXGwjWoQt0hib0318WQ

 

[TexPat]

Kiwi Blend
Named for the Mellow Johnny’s mechanic hailing from the Waikato Region of New Zealand’s North Island, our Kiwi Blend fittingly draws beans from all over the planet.

Well we know that it is not M. Anderson, sorry Mike...or actually, more like lucky you. Wonder if Lance has ever been to Rotorua...it sure smells there, but at least the people are likeable and honest.

I wonder if they have the ...

"Diabolical Decaf"

"You may think this unworldly cup of Java is clean and free of caffeine and other paraxanthines/theophylline but its actually raging with Gironaesk qualities of agression and bullish potential, leaving your palate with a gritty, stored in a fridge, dirty finish on the tongue."

NW

No offense taken. Perhaps if they served a cup named after me it would be bitter and cold. And more ironic than any hipster roaming the streets of Mellowjohnnyville.
Last I checked there are no coffee plantations in NZ, but we sure can serve a good brew and without a hint of irony.

 

[Benotti69]

Look at the numbers. CN has nothing that creates page views like anything Armstrong. His positive and negative traits are gold to everybody involved. The guy is a premier Trek dealer and sells 1000's in coffee as a non racer. His name, used an unpaid are a benefit to any cycling website.

Armstrong has created a mystery so deep that as it is unraveled everybody benefits. Who would even talk to Landis or Hamilton if not about Lance? What thread or subject gets both polarized sides to converse? He is gold to the sport,all those involved know it and are afraid of the day when his influence is gone completely . Nobody can replace Lance

Ooh i'm looking forward to his tweets about him being the new 'girl' on whatever wing he gets sent too

 

[skidmark]

No offense taken. Perhaps if they served a cup named after me it would be bitter and cold. And more ironic than any hipster roaming the streets of Mellowjohnnyville.

Hahaha! Thanks for (coincidentally enough) making me almost spit out my coffee when I read that.

 

[Cobblestoned]

You guys sure seem to know a lot about Lance Armstrong's personal and financial life.

One could think and it seems selfevident, that a multimultimillion superstar and brand, a solid and serious one, like of Armstrong's caliber, will pay those lawyers just from the Portokasse (petty cash), or just from his interest income during having a good masculine sh**.

Of course, Lance is broke as a joke now and has to sell his ****ing 16! year old rusty jet and everything.....
Yes, must be this, if your believe is strong enough.

One of my Maths teachers ( "the grey eminence" he was called) always used to say "If you want to believe, you have to go to church !"

 

[MarkvW]

This you are right about about. And we never ever want a replacement for him ever.

A forlorn hope. Lance was the product of the filthy culture of pro cycling. That filthy culture will spawn many more Lances. Sad, but true.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

A forlorn hope. Lance was the product of the filthy culture of pro cycling. That filthy culture will spawn many more Lances. Sad, but true.

Armstrong was not a product he was a (the ultimate) benefactor.

Whats strange is you acknowledge the "filthy culture", yet you do not want to see LA and the associated fraud exposed and sanctions to apply.
The only way to change the culture is to punish those that benefited from it.

 

[MarkvW]

Armstrong was not a product he was a (the ultimate) benefactor.

Whats strange is you acknowledge the "filthy culture", yet you do not want to see LA and the associated fraud exposed and sanctions to apply.
The only way to change the culture is to punish those that benefited from it.

Of course Lance is both a benefactor and a beneficiary. If you haven't been paying attention, Lance and his fraud have already been exposed pretty well. As far as sanctions go, you really have no idea what I want. You confuse my speculation on what will happen with what I want (or wanted) to happen. Maybe for you the two concepts are indistinguishable, but for me they are not. It's just a fact that with each tick of the clock, without charges or sanctions, Lance gets closer and closer to avoiding responsibility.

And change the pro cycling culture? Are you kidding me? Doping has always been pervasive in pro cycling. Are you asserting that pro cycling has ever, in any way been "clean?" It's a circus (and the animals aren't treated all that well). As if "taking away" Lance's palmares and suspending the retired rider is going to change the filthy culture of pro cycling . . . Like Kimmage said, pro cycling got the champion it deserved!

We differ in our fundamental outlook on pro cycling. You look at it as something that can be cleaned up. I look it as something that will perpetually be filthy. Pro cycling will always spawn new doped-up stars, and superstars. Not good. Not something I like. But it's the reality. Think about it the next time you watch Valverde and Basso dueling up a mountainside, trying to contain a Vinokourov breakaway!

 

[Cobblestoned]

A forlorn hope. Lance was the product of the filthy culture of pro cycling. That filthy culture will spawn many more Lances. Sad, but true.

And when you think one step further, pro cycling (and other sports) is just a product or reproduction of filthy society and mankind.
As for Lance, is there a better way of beeing 100 % US American ?


Still waiting for the day when aliens come to pick up that selected group of perfectly healed and cleaned ( in body and mind) pro cyclists, to represent mankind.

 

[fatandfast]

Odd, as a pretty hardcore cycling fan, I'm not afraid of that day whatsoever. Quite looking forward to it, actually.

You can reach out to people at the Tour Of Missouri, Tour Of Gila,NYC Bicycle Classic, and others and ask each what effect Lance has being involved or not. It has not fully effected us yet in the states but I think that Levi and Horner or our national champ Matthew Bushe will not be much of a draw for TV viewers or sponsors. Big races in the US are being reduced or cancelled because of lack of money/interest.

Lance brought along lots of press coverage. Many here think that it's all negative, but those in the business know that any attention is great for bike racing. Armstrong has had a few videos made about different parts of his life and career.
In all the videos there is some mention of his rivals and critics making the accusation of drug use. His message has stayed pretty clear even as lots of circumstantial evidence ebbs and flows. Other countries may have cycling superstars that get press but in the states, without Lance's media exposure the sport is going back underground where it was when pre-Lemond. Lance and Lemond have been the only bike racers that the American public have ever paid any long term attention to period.

Because we already had near death by gunshots and cancer the next US star better come to market with a great story.

 

[MarkvW]

In all the videos there is some mention of his rivals and critics making the accusation of drug use. His message has stayed pretty clear even as lots of circumstantial evidence ebbs and flows. Other countries may have cycling superstars that get press but in the states, without Lance's media exposure the sport is going back underground where it was when pre-Lemond. Lance and Lemond have been the only bike racers that the American public have ever paid any long term attention to period.

Because we already had near death by gunshots and cancer the next US star better come to market with a great story.

Not to be too picky, but there is also direct (not circumstantial) evidence of Lance's doping--like teammates who said they doped with him and teammates who've related Lance's admissions of doping. While Lance's "message" has stayed consistent, the evidence of his doping has not.

The only thing good about Lance is that he got the TdF on US TV. And that is pretty good!

 

[Benotti69]

You can reach out to people at the Tour Of Missouri, Tour Of Gila,NYC Bicycle Classic, and others and ask each what effect Lance has being involved or not. It has not fully effected us yet in the states but I think that Levi and Horner or our national champ Matthew Bushe will not be much of a draw for TV viewers or sponsors. Big races in the US are being reduced or cancelled because of lack of money/interest.

I think most wouldn't want to be involved in the doping brought by Armstrong, Bottle and Horner.

Lance brought along lots of press coverage. Many here think that it's all negative, but those in the business know that any attention is great for bike racing. Armstrong has had a few videos made about different parts of his life and career.

Dont worry he's gonna bring a lot more soon.

In all the videos there is some mention of his rivals and critics making the accusation of drug use. His message has stayed pretty clear even as lots of circumstantial evidence ebbs and flows. Other countries may have cycling superstars that get press but in the states, without Lance's media exposure the sport is going back underground where it was when pre-Lemond. Lance and Lemond have been the only bike racers that the American public have ever paid any long term attention to period.

That evidence has been flowing from Landis, Hamilton, big George et al.

Because we already had near death by gunshots and cancer the next US star better come to market with a great story.

After Armstrong if he is clean it will be a great story and to be the second American to win while clean a la Lemond would be enough.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Of course Lance is both a benefactor and a beneficiary. If you haven't been paying attention, Lance and his fraud have already been exposed pretty well. As far as sanctions go, you really have no idea what I want. You confuse my speculation on what will happen with what I want (or wanted) to happen. Maybe for you the two concepts are indistinguishable, but for me they are not. It's just a fact that with each tick of the clock, without charges or sanctions, Lance gets closer and closer to avoiding responsibility.

The only reason there is "confusion" over your stance is because you have failed to clear it up. I have even invited you to clarify your position.

Your stance is inconsistent and you continually defend Armstrong.

And change the pro cycling culture? Are you kidding me? Doping has always been pervasive in pro cycling. Are you asserting that pro cycling has ever, in any way been "clean?" It's a circus (and the animals aren't treated all that well). As if "taking away" Lance's palmares and suspending the retired rider is going to change the filthy culture of pro cycling . . . Like Kimmage said, pro cycling got the champion it deserved!

If you wish to ask a question at least let me answer it.

No, I do not believe that cycling can ever be "clean", indeed I have stated that before - however the reason cycling has as you called it a "filthy culture" is because the authorities support and protect frauds like Armstrong.

We differ in our fundamental outlook on pro cycling. You look at it as something that can be cleaned up. I look it as something that will perpetually be filthy. Pro cycling will always spawn new doped-up stars, and superstars. Not good. Not something I like. But it's the reality. Think about it the next time you watch Valverde and Basso dueling up a mountainside, trying to contain a Vinokourov breakaway!

Quite simply, if nothing is done then nothing changes.

Strange again that you mention, Valverde, Basso and Vino - all caught, all sanctioned, yet you have a different standard for Armstrong?
So, yes - we do have a fundamental difference.

 

[fatandfast]

Not to be too picky, but there is also direct (not circumstantial) evidence of Lance's doping--like teammates who said they doped with him and teammates who've related Lance's admissions of doping. While Lance's "message" has stayed consistent, the evidence of his doping has not.

The only thing good about Lance is that he got the TdF on US TV. And that is pretty good!

Not to be pickier still none of the hearsay is "direct". I think we agree that cycling became bigger, better funded and better media exposure during the Armstrong era. I welcomed the increased attention to bike racing now and then.
I know I am in the minority but I also thought OJ should have been set free for all the excitement he provided to football fans.
Robert Blake was allowed to remain free in exchange for the TV memories he provided for all. I hope Lance gets a full life assessment and is punished with consideration being given to his TDF highlights and his Leadville results

 

[MarkvW]

Not to be pickier still none of the hearsay is "direct". I think we agree that cycling became bigger, better funded and better media exposure during the Armstrong era. I welcomed the increased attention to bike racing now and then.
I know I am in the minority but I also thought OJ should have been set free for all the excitement he provided to football fans.
Robert Blake was allowed to remain free in exchange for the TV memories he provided for all. I hope Lance gets a full life assessment and is punished with consideration being given to his TDF highlights and his Leadville results

Tyler and Floyd were talking about what they saw and did (dope) with Lance. They also talked about what Lance said to them. That stuff is direct evidence and not hearsay.

I'm not quite ready to compare Lance to accused murderers, but I'm happy comparing him to other dopers.

 

[MarkvW]

The only reason there is "confusion" over your stance is because you have failed to clear it up. I have even invited you to clarify your position.

Your stance is inconsistent and you continually defend Armstrong.




If you wish to ask a question at least let me answer it.

No, I do not believe that cycling can ever be "clean", indeed I have stated that before - however the reason cycling has as you called it a "filthy culture" is because the authorities support and protect frauds like Armstrong.





Quite simply, if nothing is done then nothing changes.

Strange again that you mention, Valverde, Basso and Vino - all caught, all sanctioned, yet you have a different standard for Armstrong?
So, yes - we do have a fundamental difference.

Only in the Clinic can I call Lance a doper and a benefactor and beneficiary of a filthy sport, and end up getting accused of defending him. Is there a specific incantation that I ought to be reciting?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Only in the Clinic can I call Lance a doper and a benefactor and beneficiary of a filthy sport, and end up getting accused of defending him. Is there a specific incantation that I ought to be reciting?

You acknowledge he is all these things and yet hold him to a different standard to others (whom you name) - and constantly see magical ways that this all disappears.

You can recite what you wish - just don't get upset when the hypocrisy is noted.

 

[MarkvW]

You acknowledge he is all these things and yet hold him to a different standard to others (whom you name) - and constantly see magical ways that this all disappears.

You can recite what you wish - just don't get upset when the hypocrisy is noted.

There is nothing inherently wrong with doping. Doping becomes wrong when it is cheating. If you are going to sanction an athlete, you have to follow the rules, just like the athlete is obligated to follow the rules. If and when Lance is sanctioned pursuant to the rules, I'll smile and briefly enjoy the wonderful schadenfreude moment.

There are a lot of ways "this all disappears," Maserati. Prepare yourself for the possibility. And, then again, it all might not disappear. Problem is, nobody has presented a compelling argument that Lance is going to be prosecuted or otherwise sanctioned. And the clock keeps ticking. . . ..