Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[tobydawq]

No need to get personal. What are your thoughts on the move? For example, if someone else had done that to Sagan and cost him a chance at going for victory, would you claim it was all fair in sprinting?

What if Sagan's handlebars had tangled with Van Aert's elbow, forcing it go up? Then Van Aert should be expelled judging by what happened in 2017.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Same message, both with a pointed message for Van Aert

the emphasis is different. I mean, either way it’s pretty clearly siding with Sagan but since when has sprinting gone soft isn‘t a direct personal insult to WVA in the way that since when have sprinters gone soft is.

 

[tomorrow]

Van Aert seemed pretty vocal about not accepting what happened.

Well, Van Aert isn't exactly a sprinter, is he. Sagan has be on the others side of these "miniwars" multiple times in previous sprints. E.g. in stages 1 and 3 the fight for the wheel with the ISN sprinter. Actually I'd started to think, he's a little too assertive after the DSQ in 2017. But that was probably not it, the legs apparently weren't there at that time.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re:



I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was the perhaps the most vivid representation I've seen of someone's head being gone. He's clearly an emotional lad but from a pro sportsman you usually expect your blow ups to be articulated in the classic Kevin Keegan style as opposed to looking completely defeated.

What if Sagan's handlebars had tangled with Van Aert's elbow, forcing it go up? Then Van Aert should be expelled judging by what happened in 2017.

Is it inconsistent to say that Sagan was wrongfully disqualified in 2017, as I thought then and think now, but also was rightfully relegated in 2020? He did slightly deviate from his line in 2017 but that was partially forced by Demare and not particularly egregious. I don't think he should have even been relegated. In 2020, he clearly deviated from his line and initiated contact.

 

[Jano]

This is strange, why there are those Leclerc pylons sticking out like this?
To be more visible and so to make more money?

 

[Oldermanish]

This is strange, why there are those Leclerc pylons sticking out like this?
To be more visible and so to make more money?

Those pylons are in plumb alignment with the fence bases and probably would break free if contacted. That's a good point and similar to other dangerous finish zones: you hit either the pylon or the base and you will crash and yes, of course it's for advertising. That pays for the event.
Another reason to not jump into the barrier gap however enticing it may be. As for VanEert as Cyclocross World Champ...he is not unaccustomed to creating space; just not at this speed.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

the emphasis is different. I mean, either way it’s pretty clearly siding with Sagan but since when has sprinting gone soft isn‘t a direct personal insult to WVA in the way that since when have sprinters gone soft is.

Well, since Van Aert is the only sprinter complaining about sprints being "hard", and he was asked specifically about Var Aerts complaint, it's difficult for me to see he should be directing it at anyone else?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Well, since Van Aert is the only sprinter complaining about sprints being "hard", and he was asked specifically about Var Aerts complaint, it's difficult for me to see he should be directing it at anyone else?

oh it’s directed at Wout, but the distinction is like that between “you are expressing a stupid opinion” and “you are stupid”.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

oh it’s directed at Wout, but the distinction is like that between “you are expressing a stupid opinion” and “you are stupid”.

I disagree, I think the implication clearly is, than Bennett thinks Van Aert is "soft"...... stupidity doesn't enter into it

 

[Bonimenier]

I disagree, I think the implication clearly is, than Bennett thinks Van Aert is "soft"

I think the implication is that you think Van Aert is soft because he got your favourite rider relegated.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I think the implication is that you think Van Aert is soft because he got your favourite rider relegated.

I'm not a fanboy, I call them like I see them, irrespective of the rider (to be fair, unless the rider is Danish, that is most definitely my soft spot ).

I didn't bring the word "soft" into this - Bennett did - when asked about Van Aert being upset by Sagan's way of sprinting.

And for the record, I do not think Van Aert is "soft", and I fully understand his apprehension with sprints, given what happened last year.

But, I found Bennetts reply funny, and I still do

By the way I have said repeatedly, that I think Sagan's relegation was right.

However I do not think Sagan was in any way "dangerous" or "dirty", and that is not why I think the relegation was right.

I think the relegation was fair, purely because he impeded Van Aerts sprint and potentially cost him a win.

 

[SKSemtex]

interesting slow-motion

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303816081480364032

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1303816081480364032

 

[joe_papp]

Do you guys think that Sagan will make it to the finish of tomorrow's stage [Stage 14, 12 September, Clermont-Ferrand – Lyon, 197km ] in a position to win? The only points sprint is at 38km...and then I'm wondering if he'll be able to make it over the climbs :/ He does not seem to be the rider of old, but I'm finding that day-to-day it's difficult to gauge his true level.

 

[Netserk]

Yes. It’s the easy route up Béal. https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Beal#BealNW

 

[Leinster]

It'll be a tricky needle to thread for Bora, but they have to drop Bennett (and Ewan, Bol, Viviani, etc) over the early climbs, without dropping Sagan, and then reel in as many of the break as possible over the remaining kilometers, probably with very little help from the rest of the peloton, control attacks over the 2 late cat 4s, and then with minimal leadout (and possibly some Quickstep disruption from Alaphilippe and Jungels), set Sagan up to beat Coquard, EBH, Trentin and possibly vanAert in the sprint for whatever points are still on offer.

If they pull back 20 points on Bennett, it'll be a very good day for them. Which shows the size of the task they have.

 

[SHAD0W93]

It'll be a tricky needle to thread for Bora, but they have to drop Bennett (and Ewan, Bol, Viviani, etc) over the early climbs, without dropping Sagan, and then reel in as many of the break as possible over the remaining kilometers, probably with very little help from the rest of the peloton, control attacks over the 2 late cat 4s, and then with minimal leadout (and possibly some Quickstep disruption from Alaphilippe and Jungels), set Sagan up to beat Coquard, EBH, Trentin and possibly vanAert in the sprint for whatever points are still on offer.

If they pull back 20 points on Bennett, it'll be a very good day for them. Which shows the size of the task they have.

Or keep setting high paces to get Bennett OTTL.

 

[Leinster]

Or keep setting high paces to get Bennett OTTL.

I can't see Bora trying it.

Even if they do, I doubt it'll work very well. Bennett is an underrated climber, and is well able to stay with the gruppetto. He gets a lot of last places/bottom 10 finishes, but I've long suspected that he sets out on very hard stages to use as little energy as possible to finish.

 

[happytramp]

Or keep setting high paces to get Bennett OTTL.

He only finished 3min down on Sagan today. If Sam doesn't make the time cut I don't think it'll be BORA's doing.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He only finished 3min down on Sagan today. If Sam doesn't make the time cut I don't think it'll be BORA's doing.

I can't see Bora trying it.

Even if they do, I doubt it'll work very well. Bennett is an underrated climber, and is well able to stay with the gruppetto. He gets a lot of last places/bottom 10 finishes, but I've long suspected that he sets out on very hard stages to use as little energy as possible to finish.

But if the gruppeto finishes OTL he'll lose points. Plus after being dropped Sagan has no reason to ride.

 

[happytramp]

But if the gruppeto finishes OTL he'll lose points.

Interesting. Didn't know that. How does it work?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Interesting. Didn't know that. How does it work?

I only remember Cavendish in 2011 and I believe it was 20 points.

 

[Oldermanish]

Whatever opinion you may have of Sagan, today's stage showed he will fully trash himself and take the daily risks of sprinters to deliver for his team. The run-in to Lyon was nothing but an obstacle course filled with land mines. The energy it takes to stay in the game had to be exhausting mentally as much as physically.

 

[joe_papp]

It'll be a tricky needle to thread for Bora, but they have to drop Bennett (and Ewan, Bol, Viviani, etc) over the early climbs, without dropping Sagan, and then reel in as many of the break as possible over the remaining kilometers, probably with very little help from the rest of the peloton, control attacks over the 2 late cat 4s, and then with minimal leadout (and possibly some Quickstep disruption from Alaphilippe and Jungels), set Sagan up to beat Coquard, EBH, Trentin and possibly vanAert in the sprint for whatever points are still on offer.

If they pull back 20 points on Bennett, it'll be a very good day for them. Which shows the size of the task they have.

Just wanted to acknowledge what an insightful prediction this was, and how helpful I found your post. Thanks for having taken the time to reply to my o.p./question re. Sagan. Cheers.

 

[happytramp]

Just wanted to acknowledge what an insightful prediction this was, and how helpful I found your post. Thanks for having taken the time to reply to my o.p./question re. Sagan. Cheers.

Yeah, pretty much nailed it

 

[CatchyH]

I'm not sure if another green jersey is worth all the effort, i personally thought BORA would give up after stage 11 but it makes the race more exciting so i can't complain.