Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[SeriousSam]

There weren't any long climbs in the first week

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Kruijswijk is pretty much the proof of how much recuperation counts.

5,7w/kg in the first week, dropped by manu
5,7w/kg in the final week, dropped by only Landa

Wasn't he dropped mostly because of bad positioning when the peloton broke into pieces?

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

Kruijswijk is pretty much the proof of how much recuperation counts.

5,7w/kg in the first week, dropped by manu
5,7w/kg in the final week, dropped by only Landa

In the GTs, the riders constantly lose a little bit of weight. Unlikely that he will be at the same p/w ratio

 

[Von Mises]

Re: Re:

Kruijswijk is pretty much the proof of how much recuperation counts.

5,7w/kg in the first week, dropped by manu
5,7w/kg in the final week, dropped by only Landa

In the GTs, the riders constantly lose a little bit of weight. Unlikely that he will be at the same p/w ratio

So-so. It is not always linear. For instance, Tanel Kanger after 2013 Giro told that he gained during Giro 2kg of muscles and lost about 3 kgs of fat. So, his net loss was only 1 kg.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Endurance exercise is catabolic. Racing endurance - in a GT? Placing 13th!? Gained 2kg of muscle? Riding the Giro. For Astana? Seems legit. #notbutter


Holy crap he only lost 4 seconds to Wiggo over 54km in that 2013 Giro.

Haven't seen much of him since?

I appreciate the mention of the rider, but that's about as dodgy as you could look, surely?

 

[meat puppet]

Agreed.

Gotta say that the remark about gaining muscle mass whilst riding a GTs was genuinely priceless. Assuming dear Ludwig (or Kangert) was not taking the piss, maybe teams ought to consider flying this BS as PR excercises. Many will buy it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Speak of the devil.

 

[Von Mises]

Re:

Endurance exercise is catabolic. Racing endurance - in a GT? Placing 13th!? Gained 2kg of muscle? Riding the Giro. For Astana? Seems legit. #notbutter


Holy crap he only lost 4 seconds to Wiggo over 54km in that 2013 Giro.

Haven't seen much of him since?

I appreciate the mention of the rider, but that's about as dodgy as you could look, surely?

My memory was faulty. I had to go back and check what did he say. He said that during Giro he lost his weight (di not say how much) and body fat % dropped under 5. I do not know where from I took 2 and 3 kilos, sorry.

CQ graph - I do not see what is dodgy there?

 

[lenric]

It's impossible to lose fat mass and gain muscle mass at the same time. To win muscle mass, you must be on a caloric surplus, since that's the only way of putting on weight. To loose fat mass, you must be on a caloric deficit.

It is, however, possible to loose fat mass relatively, as in, if you maintain your fat mass and increase your muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down. If, on the other hand, you loose more fat mass than muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down as well.

 

[mihhint]

Re:

Haven't seen much of him since?

I appreciate the mention of the rider, but that's about as dodgy as you could look, surely?

So and so. He has been very strong dom for more than 3 years now, including key rides for Nibali 13 and 14 when he went #1, #2 and #1 in Giro, Vuelta and Tour, usually being his last man. He's one of those very many rides who could have been strong contender in GTs with some better luck and health. Top prospect in youth who ran into serious chronic knee problems. By 2009 Ag2r finally fired him, as his knee problems were deemed career-ending. He recovered for few years off and in 2012 Astana did the high risk/high reward play by taking him in for another go. And it seems to have paid off, he has been a great dom for them despite still the constant struggle with his knees.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

It's impossible to lose fat mass and gain muscle mass at the same time. To win muscle mass, you must be on a caloric surplus, since that's the only way of putting on weight. To loose fat mass, you must be on a caloric deficit.

It is, however, possible to loose fat mass relatively, as in, if you maintain your fat mass and increase your muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down. If, on the other hand, you loose more fat mass than muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down as well.

Agree and i thought the only way to gain that much muscle mass in so short a time is thru bodybuilding(i.e intense anaerobic exercises). Even LA never gave the increase in Muscles theory but rather reduction in weight.

 

[Eagle]

Re:

Endurance exercise is catabolic. Racing endurance - in a GT? Placing 13th!? Gained 2kg of muscle? Riding the Giro. For Astana? Seems legit. #notbutter


Holy crap he only lost 4 seconds to Wiggo over 54km in that 2013 Giro.

Haven't seen much of him since?

I appreciate the mention of the rider, but that's about as dodgy as you could look, surely?

Wiggins had a puncture and needed a bike change, still dodgy of course

 

[del1962]

[url]http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/features/article/53005#yZxuB2z6YwZYclGD.97[/url]

Ian Boswell's data from Cali

 

[del1962]

http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/features/article/53005#yZxuB2z6YwZYclGD.97

Ian Boswell's data from Cali

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

It's impossible to lose fat mass and gain muscle mass at the same time. To win muscle mass, you must be on a caloric surplus, since that's the only way of putting on weight. To loose fat mass, you must be on a caloric deficit.

It is, however, possible to loose fat mass relatively, as in, if you maintain your fat mass and increase your muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down. If, on the other hand, you loose more fat mass than muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down as well.

This is so NOT true it's not even funny. It IS possible to lose body fat and gain muscle mass.

When I was going to college I put on about 10 pounds of solid muscle, and lost about 10-15 pounds of body fat, in about a year and a half. All I did was work out and a 30-minute dusk stroll through the local park.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Endurance exercise is catabolic. Racing endurance - in a GT? Placing 13th!? Gained 2kg of muscle? Riding the Giro. For Astana? Seems legit. #notbutter


Holy crap he only lost 4 seconds to Wiggo over 54km in that 2013 Giro.

Haven't seen much of him since?

I appreciate the mention of the rider, but that's about as dodgy as you could look, surely?

Wiggins had a puncture and needed a bike change, still dodgy of course

Ah really. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

It's impossible to lose fat mass and gain muscle mass at the same time. To win muscle mass, you must be on a caloric surplus, since that's the only way of putting on weight. To loose fat mass, you must be on a caloric deficit.

It is, however, possible to loose fat mass relatively, as in, if you maintain your fat mass and increase your muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down. If, on the other hand, you loose more fat mass than muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down as well.

This is so NOT true it's not even funny. It IS possible to lose body fat and gain muscle mass.

When I was going to college I put on about 10 pounds of solid muscle, and lost about 10-15 pounds of body fat, in about a year and a half. All I did was work out and a 30-minute dusk stroll through the local park.

lol. It's true and it is scientifically proven. Moreover, I measured myself 26 times a year (every 2 weeks) through bioelectric impedance when in a workout program. I built muscle when I was in a caloric surplus and I lost fat mass (and some muscle mass) when I was in a caloric deficit.

You probably had months where you lost fat mass and other months where you built muscle mass, but it is impossible to do it simultaneously, there's no way around. Period.

 

[SeriousSam]

It's the holy grail of anyone going to the gym but unattainable for most. I've heard obese dudes that did zero exercise for years just starting to work out can do it, with a caloric deficit and resistance training. Elite athletes with very low body fat who have been training for years? lol

Unattainable for most, except if you do roids.

Do we have any numbers for the other Giro stages btw?

 

[roundabout]

63 minutes for Landa on Finestre. Obviously clean according to people who look only at VAM.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

It's impossible to lose fat mass and gain muscle mass at the same time. To win muscle mass, you must be on a caloric surplus, since that's the only way of putting on weight. To loose fat mass, you must be on a caloric deficit.

It is, however, possible to loose fat mass relatively, as in, if you maintain your fat mass and increase your muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down. If, on the other hand, you loose more fat mass than muscle mass, your fat mass % will go down as well.

This is so NOT true it's not even funny. It IS possible to lose body fat and gain muscle mass.

When I was going to college I put on about 10 pounds of solid muscle, and lost about 10-15 pounds of body fat, in about a year and a half. All I did was work out and a 30-minute dusk stroll through the local park.

lol. It's true and it is scientifically proven. Moreover, I measured myself 26 times a year (every 2 weeks) through bioelectric impedance when in a workout program. I built muscle when I was in a caloric surplus and I lost fat mass (and some muscle mass) when I was in a caloric deficit.

You probably had months where you lost fat mass and other months where you built muscle mass, but it is impossible to do it simultaneously, there's no way around. Period.

Mmmm. No. I remember it vividly: Every other workout I would weigh myself and noticed that I wasn't losing weight, but my pants were definitely looser. And my upper body was getting full too, to the point that my shirts were ripping up by the elbows every time I bent them.

Eventually I was introduced to the body fat measuring tool and noticed that my body fat % was going down every week. I don't know if my body was alternating between fat and muscle every day/week/month, but I can contradict what is "scientifically proven" because it happened to me. It may have been a really fine line, but it was there when I did it.

Let's not forget that the scientific community used to say that steroids didn't offer athletes any advantage, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[lenric]

I already said this, but I will repeat.
Dude, just because your body fat % is lowering, it doesn't mean that you're actually losing fat mass. It just means that you're increasing your fat-free mass in a proportion that makes your fat mass % decrease. It's a question of mathematics. Copy that?

And by the way, just for the sake of the argument, after every workout the muscles you worked out will appear, well, "bulked". It's actually called pump and it's nothing more than an increase of blood running through the veins of your exercised muscles. After 3/4 hours they will return to normal. Your muscles don't grow right after exercise, but only after proper nutrition and rest.

 

[Netserk]

63 minutes for Landa on Finestre. Obviously clean according to people who look only at VAM.

Huh? It's the second fastest time ever. I don't think anyone thinks you have to break the records for a climbing time to be impressive...

 

[roundabout]

it works out to a rather unimpressive seeming 1600 m/h VAM and something like 5.5 W/kg though

which is why context matters

 

[Netserk]

Ah, got your point.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

it works out to a rather unimpressive seeming 1600 m/h VAM and something like 5.5 W/kg though

which is why context matters

VAM on a dirtroad is as usefull as, well, uhhhhhh...

Better use the good 'ol eye technique.

Conti stable at around 64 minutes I must say.