Proposal to JV --

[Colm.Murphy]

I just can't fathom why a guy who is so clearly wanting to be a player in THAT game (the UCI), wants to be adored in THIS game (The Clinic).

I'd tell me to go F myself. Why won't he? Why is he so intent on winning our hearts and minds?

It is insecurity. A simple human condition. For whatever reason, he yearns to be liked and aspires to gain the adoration of anyone who will grant it.

I can't fault him for that. He is just a man. We all need the same thing, to varying degrees. But that he blurs this into his profession, given his job responsibility and the workplace he has chose, is a mistake.

You've got to check your feelings, to a large degree, at the door. Especially coming down here, into the dark cellar of the dialogue.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

I wish he WOULD tell me to "whatever". But he's still intent on winning literally everyone over. His ego is so big that he can't handle the fact that a sizable amount of people think he's FOS. I only react to his piety.

Interesting that you know so much about Buckwheat, considering you're so "new" here. He was banned before you came on the scene

Buckwheat got banned in november about when I joined. It doesn't matter I read the forum and saw that soap opera. Please do not imply again I am somebody else, that is getting old. You sound much more like him so maybe you are his sock puppet?

JV - please PM me for some creative ways to tell off Mr. Bay.

 

[BotanyBay]

It is insecurity. A simple human condition. For whatever reason, he yearns to be liked and aspires to gain the adoration of anyone who will grant it.

I can't fault him for that. He is just a man. We all need the same thing, to varying degrees. But that he blurs this into his profession, given his job responsibility and the workplace he has chose, is a mistake.

You've got to check your feelings, to a large degree, at the door. Especially coming down here, into the dark cellar of the dialogue.

I'm not (yet) sure. The man organized an actual "Norma Rae" protest over Race Radios. You know, the kind of thing where you're willing to put your job on the line and actually risk something for what you believe in.

Yet on this topic, he's willing to risk very little.

So we've seen that JV is not just some timid "aw shucks" kind of guy who just wants to win races with clean racers. The guy has huévos when he chooses to have them.

 

[BroDeal]

It is insecurity. A simple human condition. For whatever reason, he yearns to be liked and aspires to gain the adoration of anyone who will grant it.

Reminds me of Melvin Smiley from the movie "The Big Hit." Melvin's job,, when he was not trying to get people to like him, was a hitman. Hopefully JV has returned his copy of "King Kong Lives."

Going in front of some Fed agents does not give you the option of protecting the "future", and from what goes on during questioning by Feds, they would pretty much run the gamut inquiring as to what he knows and experienced. I sense they'd be very thorough with him. He would not have the luxury of giving partial answers, fuzzy memories, or the like.

Bottom line, is they want to ask questions and get answers, he will have to give it to them. There are not many options in that scenario.

Sure there are. There is an entire range of what constitutes cooperation. JV strikes me as someone who is too clever by half. Every question he will be asking himself what they can prove that he knows, how much truth has to be told, and how it will affect him and his team.

 

[BotanyBay]

Buckwheat got banned in november about when I joined. It doesn't matter I read the forum and saw that soap opera. Please do not imply again I am somebody else, that is getting old. You sound much more like him so maybe you are his sock puppet?

JV - please PM me for some creative ways to tell off Mr. Bay.

When you become a mod, you can ban me yourself.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Yes. I agree with this.

And, btw, my name is my name. What's yours "Skandar"?

I had never heard of a name colm before so I didn't know what it was. Sorry if I offended you.

Skandar is my real name. I was almost named Seargent Slaughter but my parents thought better of it. Ok bye.

 

[Elagabalus]

I think that people waiting for JV to tell the truth during and/or after the federal investigation will be sorely disappointed. We have two data points. One is the SCA arbitration where JV used an artful affidavit to distance himself as far away as possible from the case. The second is FLandis' interview where Landis says that JV told him to keep quiet about others. Those are not the actions of a man who will stand before the bar of justice and tell the whole truth.

I agree that they'll be disappointed in JV, certainly. However, I believe in the SCA trial JV signed an affidavit saying that the conversation (between JV and Frankie) was based on hearsay. From the Flandis interview with Kimmage we now know that that was essentially the case-with Floyd himself wondering where JV had heard these stories from.

 

[BotanyBay]

I agree that they'll be disappointed in JV, certainly. However, I believe in the SCA trial JV signed an affidavit saying that the conversation (between JV and Frankie) was based on hearsay. From the Flandis interview with Kimmage we now know that that was essentially the case-with Floyd himself wondering where JV had heard these stories from.

What did Frankie say about the conversation?

 

[SpeedWay]

Lol at botany bay etc demanding JV do this and that to earn his/her respect, or whatever he/she is demanding. If I was him I would tell you to....never mind I don't want to get banned.

Just like Buckwheat's meltdown this is another example of how easy it is to sit on a forum and take potshots. We all seem so pious and are so sure what we would do in the same positions. JV will change nothing by exposing all, and it would surely usher him out of the sport. He has to change it within the parameters the situation provides, and that doesn't include the bull in the china closet approach of Mr. Bay, buckwheat, this colm guy whatever that name means. This forum is a minor player. He should just ignore it and do what he has to do.

Got to admit it is funny watching someone come unglued from lack of meds. Enrolling that great, clean rider in the sky to ride shot gun in his pious argument clearly makes the case that Novitsky has nothing on BB. Mr. Magoo is alive and well and JV will hopefully realize that he's met his master and confess.

 

[BroDeal]

Got to admit it is funny watching someone come unglued from lack of meds. Enrolling that great, clean rider in the sky to ride shot gun in his pious argument clearly makes the case that Novitsky has nothing on BB. Mr. Magoo is alive and well and JV will hopefully realize that he's met his master and confess.

It sounds like Speedway got into fatandfast's stash.

 

[Elagabalus]

What did Frankie say about the conversation?

Frankie said that he saw the words typed before him and believed them to be the words of Jonathan Vaughters. He also stated that the stories, as described to him by JV, were (wait for it) stories told to him by Jonathan Vaughters.

 

[BotanyBay]

Frankie said that he saw the words typed before him and believed them to be the words of Jonathan Vaughters. He also stated that the stories, as described to him by JV, were (wait for it) stories told to him by Jonathan Vaughters.

Then they could not possibly be "heresay". They can only be one thing:

"Frankie Say"

So either JV was a liar then, or (wait for it), a liar now.

 

[NashbarShorts]

Nashbar, I think you missed the bit where Vaughters says no matter what he does, he's screwed....You aren't really addressing his concerns here.

Umm, I took it that he's more concerned about how "'infuriating" it is that we, the "chattering" class, "massacre" him rather than relying on the rose-colored picture that cycling's "journalists" paint for us w/ their "research".

Those were his words, not mine. I figured I'd let him know how easy it would be to alleviate his pain.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

It sounds like Speedway got into fatandfast's stash.

You may be right. I think he is agreeing with me but I have to snort paint to tell.

 

[BotanyBay]

Nashbar, I think you missed the bit where Vaughters says no matter what he does, he's screwed - either by withholding information, or by releasing it and having it analyzed by non-experts and taken out of context. You aren't really addressing his concerns here.

Screwed BY ME?

Last I heard, I did not rank in the poll of most powerful people in cycling. And neither did anyone else here on The Clinic.

I don't even personally dislike the man. I've always found the guy likable. I just wish he'd extrapolate a little bit. And here is what I get upset about.

I ask for more information, and I'm met with "Who the hell are you? You're no one!"

And then I keep up with the criticism and it's like my criticism almost has the guy in tears?

Sorry, but there's no crying in baseball.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Screwed BY ME?

Last I heard, I did not rank in the poll of most powerful people in cycling. And neither did anyone else here on The Clinic.

I don't even personally dislike the man. I've always found the guy likable. I just wish he'd extrapolate a little bit. And here is what I get upset about.

I ask for more information, and I'm met with "Who the hell are you? You're no one!"

And then I keep up with the criticism and it's like my criticism almost has the guy in tears?

Sorry, but there's no crying in baseball.

While asking for more information you criticize him while not having all the information. I'm not reading that the guy is whining I just see where he can't win here. Look I always like talking truth to the power but he is doing much more than others by coming on here from time to time. To have his words picked apart is alot more than I would tolerate if I was him, along with your rant. Yes he is tossing you a bone by coming on here. Enjoy it, he owes you nothing.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

Sure there are. There is an entire range of what constitutes cooperation. JV strikes me as someone who is too clever by half. Every question he will be asking himself what they can prove that he knows, how much truth has to be told, and how it will affect him and his team.

JV cant be too smart coming on here to post and then getting upset by the replies. Forums are not a new phenomenon so what did he expect, love and devotion???

as for JV up in front of the feds, his father is a lawyer so JV would be well schooled.

 

[Neworld]

I am not sure I understand your question. JV does post here and the username he uses is generally attributed to the person, at minimum, as claimed by that person.

Thanks Barrus and C. Murphy, I didn't know that JV posted here as "JV"

NW

 

[Hugh Januss]

He seems upset that we doubt his word, but how many pro cyclists have ever given us, the fans, any reason to do anything but doubt.

 

[BotanyBay]

While asking for more information you criticize him while not having all the information.

He doesn't say "where" people are uninformed. Nor does he do anything to help inform us. He scoots-in, says we're FOS, scoots-out, and then people like you rave about how you respect him for having had the "guts" to come in here to set the record straight. Only no record ever gets "set straight".

If he's willing to play 20 questions, I'd be happy to play host (or I'd be happy to have Francois act as host).

 

[Benotti69]

He seems upset that we doubt his word, but how many pro cyclists have ever given us, the fans, any reason to do anything but doubt.

it is a mystery how JV can feel that a lot of the fans do not view cyclists as guilty before charged and therefore must prove their innocence. You just have to look at the last 100 years of the sport ferchissake and in modern times the TdF winners going back to Indurain's first win. With the knowledge of the amount of doping going on in the sport, a few words from a DS pushing for clean cycling doesn't hold a lot of weight without some hard questions being answered and some sold evidence.

Maybe he doesn't read the cycling news and missed the last TdF winner tested pos for clen, a supposedly reformed Italian rider submitted to hospital from a botched transfusion etc...

 

[BotanyBay]

I liken his recent visits to drive-by shootings (DBS). He busts in, makes a lot of noise, delivers his point and then drives away (saying he's a busy guy and doesn't have time for this BS).

Yet he made time for the DBS.

 

[Martin318is]

Id be willing to bet that all three of those are information he will not divulge at the moment due to the current federal enquiry.

And rightly so.

We'd all love to know if DZ has said anything to the feds, just as we would love to know if Hincapie etc has, but I think we'd rather not know right now if it jeopordised the case against armstrong in any way.

I also think this thread is a) pointless and b) just rehashing what has already been said and another excuse for the forum to deteriorate into a JV bashing v JV defending session. And the guy wont be able to win, if he says nothing hes "witholding things, not being transparent" etc, if he answers questions his every word gets analysed and used against him.

Thats my input and ONLY input into this thread.

Very, VERY well said, DIM

 

[Skandar Akbar]

He doesn't say "where" people are uninformed. Nor does he do anything to help inform us. He scoots-in, says we're FOS, scoots-out, and then people like you rave about how you respect him for having had the "guts" to come in here to set the record straight. Only no record ever gets "set straight".

If he's willing to play 20 questions, I'd be happy to play host (or I'd be happy to have Francois act as host).

I see what you are saying but you are misrepresenting what I wrote. I say he comes in here and says things, and says things in the public domain, within the confines of his position in the sport and perhaps legally. You say he should come in here and bare all and I say he may be giving all he can. Still it is more than nothing which even then ****es you off. Again he cannot come out and start accusing and exposing as you would like. I'm sorry. I am not 'raving' about anything I just call what I see.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Nevermind all them how could he not connect the dots for Clentador? You know the maybe in Puerto maybe not, came on pretty strong when he hooked up with Bruyneel, climbed with Rasmussen Clentador? That JV tried to sign.

Agree with this....seems like a real 'blip' in the flow of JV's normal path. I do think that some here are demanding with a bit of righteous indignation, and may need to step back and not take everything so personally. Open discussion and differing viewpoints yes, but personal potshots and taunting not necessary to make a valid argument.

JV's human, flawed, but still appreciate some comments coming from him.