3/10.
The lowest I ever rated a GT (but I didn't rate al GT's the last couple of years). From recent tours only the 2009 one had a worse course (but better final week).
The first few days are good enough.
Starting with a ITT (or prologue) is how it should be. Then a flat stage with the possibility of echelon forming. It remains to be seen how hard (and if!!) the wind will blow. In the 3rd stage of the 2010 Giro, the wind created havoc in this area. A few weeks later, in the first stage of the tour, nothing happened.
The combination of a hilly stage follwed by cobbles in the first week has proven its value recently. Finish on the mur de Huy is a cheap solution, though. I expect the usual final uphill sprint, although the côte de Ben-Ahin seems to be included a dozen of km before the finish. They could have designed something more innovative in that area.
The stage to Cambrai, long and with a decent amount of cobbles in the final, seems to be the best stage on paper. Extra thumbs up for the newly found sector to Carnières.
Next are three stages designed for the sprinters, with again possibilities of strong crosswinds to Le Havre. The cliffs of Étretat will provide for some beautiful scenery, in any case.
The stage to Mur de Bretagne will be another uphill sprint finish, with all relevant action packed in the last few km (barring crashes, of course). And the first week will be concluded with a TTT. I don't like TTT's that much, and it's even worse when they are placed that late in the race. It's against the UCI rules (not that ASO bothers what these rules say, they are mightier than those ****s in Aigle), and might disfavor teams who may have lost some riders along the way in the first week, it takes the place from a real ITT, and given the strenght of topteams, it won't create big gaps if it's only 28km long. A TTT at this time, with this course, is a travesty.
The first rest day, is followed by a vuelta special to Arette Pierre-Saint-Martin. On itself, it's an acceptable first mountain stage, but I have the feeling the finish town could be approached better.
The second pyrenees stage features the perennial Tourmalet in cobination with the long false flat uphill drag to Cauterets. While the Giro has proven that a difficult climb followed by an easier one could provide fireworks, I fear that the 11km valley between the end of the Tourmalet descent and the foot of Cauterets will paralyze any relevant GC action. This stage will be a procession amongst the favorites. I think Marie-Blanque + Aubisque (+Spandelles) + Cauterets would be way better.
The final pyrenees stage goes to Le Plateau de Beille. On itself, that's a very good climb. The major problem is that it is quite isolated from other climbs, it will always be preceded by a lot of valley, and thus making long range attacks by favorites (or even outsiders) highly unlikely. From this point of view it isn't that bad that there aren't more decent climbs (Menté, Latrape, Agnes).
The stage to Rodez leaves me indifferent. It can be flat or very hilly, but at this point of the race, even a quick succesion of a lot of hills probably won't cause too much GC action.
Next is the "modern classic" to Mende. They'll climb the Côte de la Croix Neuve probably from the nothwest once again, which is a shame. The southeastern side is much easier to link with other climbs before. But, no matter which climbs they use before the finish, it probably will come down to another uphill sprint.
The trip through the Massif Central seems to be followed by two flat stages (no mention of climbs in the final to Gap, or I have missed it).
The second rest day is followed by the Alps. The first stage is a tribute to Bernard Thévenet, with a finish in Pra Loup. I have to admit I quite like the Allos-Pra Loup sequence. I know, col de la Cayolle is way more difficult than the south side of Allos, but the descent from Allos to the foot of Pra Loup is more tricky, steeper and shorter than the descent of the Cayolle. Since Pra Loup itself isn't that difficult or long, maybe one of the favorites (why not Nibali himself?) might try something in said descent. Still I think an extra climb (Col de Champs) would have made this stage great instead of good. The likeliness of some action is, in my opinion, even more increased because the next stage is a huge let down. The south side of the Glandon with 40km to go and a 3km hill (although on a spectacular road) with 10km to go won't entice the favorites to significant action.
The penultimate mountain stage, once again with a MTF is a recycled version of the 2nd Alpine stage in 2012. While that stage saw some interesting action and created big time gaps, it was completely suffocated by the pace team sky set. Still I think this can be considered the queen stage. The fact that it's only 138km long is very telling...
The final decisive stage is a very short stage with the classic MTF to l'Alpe d'Huez, and again a recycled version of a recent tour stage. The very same stage was very entertaining in 2011, but I don't think we'll get the same amount of action next year. One can only hope, though.
And then the usual parade to the Champs Elysées. Oh well...
positive:
varied first week, stage to la Toussuire
offers some possibilities:
Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne, Pra Loup
maybe exciting, depending on the exact course:
Rodez, Mende, Gap
Negative:
only one (short!!) TT, TTT, abundance of MTF's not preceded by decent climbs, lack of hard mountain stage(s) with a descent finish, lack of early medium mountain stage (like this year), same finish locations over and over again.
The lowest I ever rated a GT (but I didn't rate al GT's the last couple of years). From recent tours only the 2009 one had a worse course (but better final week).
The first few days are good enough.
Starting with a ITT (or prologue) is how it should be. Then a flat stage with the possibility of echelon forming. It remains to be seen how hard (and if!!) the wind will blow. In the 3rd stage of the 2010 Giro, the wind created havoc in this area. A few weeks later, in the first stage of the tour, nothing happened.
The combination of a hilly stage follwed by cobbles in the first week has proven its value recently. Finish on the mur de Huy is a cheap solution, though. I expect the usual final uphill sprint, although the côte de Ben-Ahin seems to be included a dozen of km before the finish. They could have designed something more innovative in that area.
The stage to Cambrai, long and with a decent amount of cobbles in the final, seems to be the best stage on paper. Extra thumbs up for the newly found sector to Carnières.
Next are three stages designed for the sprinters, with again possibilities of strong crosswinds to Le Havre. The cliffs of Étretat will provide for some beautiful scenery, in any case.
The stage to Mur de Bretagne will be another uphill sprint finish, with all relevant action packed in the last few km (barring crashes, of course). And the first week will be concluded with a TTT. I don't like TTT's that much, and it's even worse when they are placed that late in the race. It's against the UCI rules (not that ASO bothers what these rules say, they are mightier than those ****s in Aigle), and might disfavor teams who may have lost some riders along the way in the first week, it takes the place from a real ITT, and given the strenght of topteams, it won't create big gaps if it's only 28km long. A TTT at this time, with this course, is a travesty.
The first rest day, is followed by a vuelta special to Arette Pierre-Saint-Martin. On itself, it's an acceptable first mountain stage, but I have the feeling the finish town could be approached better.
The second pyrenees stage features the perennial Tourmalet in cobination with the long false flat uphill drag to Cauterets. While the Giro has proven that a difficult climb followed by an easier one could provide fireworks, I fear that the 11km valley between the end of the Tourmalet descent and the foot of Cauterets will paralyze any relevant GC action. This stage will be a procession amongst the favorites. I think Marie-Blanque + Aubisque (+Spandelles) + Cauterets would be way better.
The final pyrenees stage goes to Le Plateau de Beille. On itself, that's a very good climb. The major problem is that it is quite isolated from other climbs, it will always be preceded by a lot of valley, and thus making long range attacks by favorites (or even outsiders) highly unlikely. From this point of view it isn't that bad that there aren't more decent climbs (Menté, Latrape, Agnes).
The stage to Rodez leaves me indifferent. It can be flat or very hilly, but at this point of the race, even a quick succesion of a lot of hills probably won't cause too much GC action.
Next is the "modern classic" to Mende. They'll climb the Côte de la Croix Neuve probably from the nothwest once again, which is a shame. The southeastern side is much easier to link with other climbs before. But, no matter which climbs they use before the finish, it probably will come down to another uphill sprint.
The trip through the Massif Central seems to be followed by two flat stages (no mention of climbs in the final to Gap, or I have missed it).
The second rest day is followed by the Alps. The first stage is a tribute to Bernard Thévenet, with a finish in Pra Loup. I have to admit I quite like the Allos-Pra Loup sequence. I know, col de la Cayolle is way more difficult than the south side of Allos, but the descent from Allos to the foot of Pra Loup is more tricky, steeper and shorter than the descent of the Cayolle. Since Pra Loup itself isn't that difficult or long, maybe one of the favorites (why not Nibali himself?) might try something in said descent. Still I think an extra climb (Col de Champs) would have made this stage great instead of good. The likeliness of some action is, in my opinion, even more increased because the next stage is a huge let down. The south side of the Glandon with 40km to go and a 3km hill (although on a spectacular road) with 10km to go won't entice the favorites to significant action.
The penultimate mountain stage, once again with a MTF is a recycled version of the 2nd Alpine stage in 2012. While that stage saw some interesting action and created big time gaps, it was completely suffocated by the pace team sky set. Still I think this can be considered the queen stage. The fact that it's only 138km long is very telling...
The final decisive stage is a very short stage with the classic MTF to l'Alpe d'Huez, and again a recycled version of a recent tour stage. The very same stage was very entertaining in 2011, but I don't think we'll get the same amount of action next year. One can only hope, though.
And then the usual parade to the Champs Elysées. Oh well...
positive:
varied first week, stage to la Toussuire
offers some possibilities:
Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne, Pra Loup
maybe exciting, depending on the exact course:
Rodez, Mende, Gap
Negative:
only one (short!!) TT, TTT, abundance of MTF's not preceded by decent climbs, lack of hard mountain stage(s) with a descent finish, lack of early medium mountain stage (like this year), same finish locations over and over again.
- Aug 3, 2009
- 1,562
- 0
- 0
This is no TDF .... short stages , no time trail... there should be at least some 250 km stages. Not all of course but 3 or so. Endurance is part of a grand tour. And dope has nothing to do with it. They dope to win not because the distance was too long etc.
This is a tour de l,avenir version .....
I think i ll skip the tdf.... In my opinion there should Always be like 100 km ITT( incl MTT) ITT is pure cycling.
This is a tour de l,avenir version .....
I think i ll skip the tdf.... In my opinion there should Always be like 100 km ITT( incl MTT) ITT is pure cycling.
- Jun 7, 2010
- 19,196
- 3,091
- 28,180
Roude Leiw said:
Don't think Pinot likes explosive finishes, cobbles or possible echelons that much
- Aug 4, 2010
- 11,337
- 0
- 0
Aso(s)hit
Easy multiple mountain stages and no tts...and cobbles again.
But I like the PRA loup stage and ttt
Easy multiple mountain stages and no tts...and cobbles again.
But I like the PRA loup stage and ttt
retzko said:
If you have 100 km of ITT, you need a ****load of mountains and MTF to compensate for this. At least 4-5 MTF and a couple of downhill finishes. At least 3 of the mountain stages would have to be 4-5000 altidtude meters and close to or over 200 km.
- Apr 30, 2011
- 45,459
- 27,947
- 28,180
Tour de France 2007:OlavEH said:
120km of ITT. 3 MTFs. 3 other mountain stages, where the first didn't see any action.
Final GC if not for Rabo withdrawal of Chicken:
Rasmussen
Contador
Evans
Strength in ITT:
Evans
Contador
Rasmussen
Strength on climbs:
Rasmussen
Contador
Evans
I rest my case.
If the TT is the 'race of truth', this Tour is the 'race of untruth'.
Fairness: 1/10
Interesting parcours in terms of what I appreciate about cycling (balance, suspense, mix of hard long stages with other kinds of challenges): 1/10
Excitement in terms of the way I watch the TdF: 9/10
Guys I think this is going to be ridiculous to watch. It's hard to say without profiles for everything of course, but the first 9 days are gonna be bananas and full of ridiculous random suspense. I actually like that there in the first 9 days there is a ITT, TTT, Mur finish, cobbles, and two stages where there might be echelons. Not only for excitement and unpredictability, either. While this frantic rush for positioning ahead of the cobbles and Mur (and potential echelons) might be dangerous, my feeling is that crashes always happen in the first week, and happen more at the end of tired sprint stages where everyone is trying to hang on... I wonder if it's possible that there might be fewer crashes as a result of potential smaller groups at the end of the stages. I haven't ridden professionally or anything so my peripheral impressions may be off. But regardless, first week should be suspenseful for all these reasons, and it may have interesting carryover to the rest of the race. Like, if Quintana or someone loses time on the cobbles and has a slightly reduced team by the TTT, he could be fighting back the rest of the way with ballsy attacks since taking back 20 seconds on weak uphill finishes won't be enough. Anyway, the potential for suspense is high, fair or not.
Beyond that, the weak-but-numerous mountains are interesting, and could lead to lots of little gains rather than a knockout punch in the first mountain stage like 2013. For me, that's a bonus, because I'm usually working away from regular internet during the Tour, so I don't have time to pore over 2 hours of racing each day, so youtube cycling is self-serving (not to mention that I'm often super disappointed if there's a multiple mountain stage and I watch for 3 hours only to have someone take off at the 1.5km mark; the unipublic stages are honest about modern cycling if nothing else).
As for the intangibles, I'm totally cool with the Alpe D'Huez 2011 re-creation - the only way they could do it was on the 2nd last day when a bunch of guys have nothing to lose, no way was something like the 2011 situation going to happen again other than that. If it doesn't work out as a GC showdown, then oh well, you've got a sweet prestige stage on the 2nd last day. No problems with cobbles 2 years in a row, as long as they don't make a habit of it. In general, I appreciate Prudhomme's willingness to tamper with tradition to an extent. But yeah, some kind of balance is important. If he threw in a 70km ITT on stage 15 or something and extended the PdB stage to 245km, I'd be thrilled with this route.
As to Hitch's question as to why, my feeling is possibly that Prudhomme is more of a capitulating consensus-builder in the mode of Acquarone, if the rumours are true about him wanting more ITT and capitulating due to push-back from host towns that wanted to host a road stage. That may have more to do with it than anything. At any rate, Oleg's behind-the-scenes attempt to get a semi-boycott of the Tour to put the screws to them about revenue sharing can only be advanced by this weaksauce course - it's telling that the most risk-averse team that pride themselves on attention to detail thought it was no big deal to snub the ASO by 'planning a team thing' that kept their former champion(s) away when the presentation happened. And that Contador wasn't there either. Interesting times.
Fairness: 1/10
Interesting parcours in terms of what I appreciate about cycling (balance, suspense, mix of hard long stages with other kinds of challenges): 1/10
Excitement in terms of the way I watch the TdF: 9/10
Guys I think this is going to be ridiculous to watch. It's hard to say without profiles for everything of course, but the first 9 days are gonna be bananas and full of ridiculous random suspense. I actually like that there in the first 9 days there is a ITT, TTT, Mur finish, cobbles, and two stages where there might be echelons. Not only for excitement and unpredictability, either. While this frantic rush for positioning ahead of the cobbles and Mur (and potential echelons) might be dangerous, my feeling is that crashes always happen in the first week, and happen more at the end of tired sprint stages where everyone is trying to hang on... I wonder if it's possible that there might be fewer crashes as a result of potential smaller groups at the end of the stages. I haven't ridden professionally or anything so my peripheral impressions may be off. But regardless, first week should be suspenseful for all these reasons, and it may have interesting carryover to the rest of the race. Like, if Quintana or someone loses time on the cobbles and has a slightly reduced team by the TTT, he could be fighting back the rest of the way with ballsy attacks since taking back 20 seconds on weak uphill finishes won't be enough. Anyway, the potential for suspense is high, fair or not.
Beyond that, the weak-but-numerous mountains are interesting, and could lead to lots of little gains rather than a knockout punch in the first mountain stage like 2013. For me, that's a bonus, because I'm usually working away from regular internet during the Tour, so I don't have time to pore over 2 hours of racing each day, so youtube cycling is self-serving (not to mention that I'm often super disappointed if there's a multiple mountain stage and I watch for 3 hours only to have someone take off at the 1.5km mark; the unipublic stages are honest about modern cycling if nothing else).
As for the intangibles, I'm totally cool with the Alpe D'Huez 2011 re-creation - the only way they could do it was on the 2nd last day when a bunch of guys have nothing to lose, no way was something like the 2011 situation going to happen again other than that. If it doesn't work out as a GC showdown, then oh well, you've got a sweet prestige stage on the 2nd last day. No problems with cobbles 2 years in a row, as long as they don't make a habit of it. In general, I appreciate Prudhomme's willingness to tamper with tradition to an extent. But yeah, some kind of balance is important. If he threw in a 70km ITT on stage 15 or something and extended the PdB stage to 245km, I'd be thrilled with this route.
As to Hitch's question as to why, my feeling is possibly that Prudhomme is more of a capitulating consensus-builder in the mode of Acquarone, if the rumours are true about him wanting more ITT and capitulating due to push-back from host towns that wanted to host a road stage. That may have more to do with it than anything. At any rate, Oleg's behind-the-scenes attempt to get a semi-boycott of the Tour to put the screws to them about revenue sharing can only be advanced by this weaksauce course - it's telling that the most risk-averse team that pride themselves on attention to detail thought it was no big deal to snub the ASO by 'planning a team thing' that kept their former champion(s) away when the presentation happened. And that Contador wasn't there either. Interesting times.
- Jan 27, 2012
- 14,321
- 1,546
- 25,680
roundabout said:
Would agree, but then how far could ASO go?
Entire first week consisting of standard edition flat stages with no cross wind chance?
I think they would lose fans during the first week that way.
- Aug 31, 2012
- 7,550
- 3
- 0
A TTT but almost no ITT, time bonuses, cobbles. How else can we lessen the correlation between the winner and strongest rider?
- May 23, 2009
- 10,245
- 1,436
- 25,680
Terrible route, stale and unimaginative. TTT is too late, no real ITT, only 1 or 2 decent mountain stages, Galibier/Alpe stage is the same as 11, as is the Mur de Bretagne finish, cobbles again, there will be crashes throughout the first week, bad points jersey system - I could go on. I've given it a 2 thanks to the Pra-Loup, La Toussuirre and St Jean de Maurienne stages and the probability of echelons in the first two weeks.
This year's parcours was fairly good, how did we go from that to this
This year's parcours was fairly good, how did we go from that to this
- Oct 9, 2014
- 212
- 0
- 0
+ Good short TT start
+ Mixed first week will sort things out, but maybe not as expected
++ Cobbled stage
+ Suitable penultimate finish
+ Some punchy finishes, which have been lacking the last few years
- Crap penultimate stage
-- Lacks a real epic mountain stage
-- Embarassing lack of TT kms
6+ and 5- from a starting point of 5/10 gets a 6/10.
+ Mixed first week will sort things out, but maybe not as expected
++ Cobbled stage
+ Suitable penultimate finish
+ Some punchy finishes, which have been lacking the last few years
- Crap penultimate stage
-- Lacks a real epic mountain stage
-- Embarassing lack of TT kms
6+ and 5- from a starting point of 5/10 gets a 6/10.
- Mar 11, 2009
- 10,526
- 3,289
- 28,180
Gave it a 6. Was being kind I think.
I like the cobbles and early week being tough. Think the cobbles are too tough for the riders, especially if the weather is bad? Then they should learn how to ride on the cobbles! At least that's how I feel.
I don't like the lack of an early long ITT, and wonder if the TTT comes too late perhaps. We'll find out I guess.
I love Stage 12, and think every Tour needs a long, epic mountain stage, like the good old days. But the final two climbs in the Alps may be too short.
I like the cobbles and early week being tough. Think the cobbles are too tough for the riders, especially if the weather is bad? Then they should learn how to ride on the cobbles! At least that's how I feel.
I don't like the lack of an early long ITT, and wonder if the TTT comes too late perhaps. We'll find out I guess.
I love Stage 12, and think every Tour needs a long, epic mountain stage, like the good old days. But the final two climbs in the Alps may be too short.
Best thing i have ever seen!!! Especially after coming on here after some exams!
I gave it a 9 as the ITT amount is way too low, and I would have loved a longer TTT it does fit in well with the small amount. Maybe a 30 km ITT and an MTT would have helped even more.
Some of the greatest climbs, and in the first 8 stages at least 5 that can shake up the GC. Seems to be exciting!
Now to look through all the previous posts that might change my mind.
I gave it a 9 as the ITT amount is way too low, and I would have loved a longer TTT it does fit in well with the small amount. Maybe a 30 km ITT and an MTT would have helped even more.
Some of the greatest climbs, and in the first 8 stages at least 5 that can shake up the GC. Seems to be exciting!
Now to look through all the previous posts that might change my mind.
Well, I freely admit that I am more of a casual fan then the experts here (not being sarcastic: being humble and honest), so my view may not be worth much. I find time trials unbelievably dull so I won't miss them. The very short ITT will lead to different tactics I'd think. Also having it first means that right away we'll have separation among the riders, if only a few seconds. This might mean that on the following early stages we'll see more jockeying for gaining a few seconds to take the yellow jersey. So maybe some sprinters will be in yellow for the first week.
I live for the mountain stages, so I'll have to wait for week two. I do like to see new climbs, or at least not seeing the same few over and over, so always look forward to a new one or two.
Anyway, just my view.
I live for the mountain stages, so I'll have to wait for week two. I do like to see new climbs, or at least not seeing the same few over and over, so always look forward to a new one or two.
Anyway, just my view.
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