Ryder's blood

[Benotti69]

Taking JV at his word in that statement, I hope that was the offer made to everyone who got the 6 month holidays

A life ban for lying under oath during an investigation is a good stick.

But it isn't. Fining them all their ill gotten gains is a good stick. Letting them walk off with all the money doesn't hurt anyone who is near retirement age.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Except there were a bunch of sworn affidavits Ryder could copy er corroborate. And very little likelihood of anyone outing him as a doper without incriminating themselves, given all the fish had apparently already been caught.

What am I missing?

It's like having a Aru up the road setting a time for you. Quintana doesn't have to go full ***, he can just beat him by a few seconds, thanks to race radio and race radio time splits.

Did they get to see what other wrote/confessed to before submitting their own ?

I would guess not, and that puts a very strong "prisoners dilemma" game on

 

[Benotti69]

Did they get to see what other wrote/confessed to before submitting their own ?

I would guess not, and that puts a very strong "prisoners dilemma" game on

Why not? JV was part of the whole process, it was JV who decided on a 6 month ban over the winter for those who talked. My guess was JV and Hesjedal sat down together to decide what the plan was.

 

[Benotti69]

more and more seeing JV the snakeoil salesman that he is...

Scott Mahedy @hibs76
@kristenworley @Digger_forum love the way ryder gives himself praise for telling truth - conveniently forgetting the 11 years it took him

Scott Mahedy ‏@hibs76 2m
always quite liked him and naively assumed clean at garmin. Coulda done a lot of good if spoke out years ago...

but he chose to keep quiet and let others deal with crap. Saw the light and never doped again? My ****.

 

[blackcat]

Did they get to see what other wrote/confessed to before submitting their own ?

I would guess not, and that puts a very strong "prisoners dilemma" game on

i dont mind JV allowing his riders to dope, but stay under the radar and not test positive.

the alternative is, ride with one hand behind your back against all the other teams. that aint fair neither.

but the PR shtick, its a good business model. The UCI need atleast one halo crown clean team. I cant unnerstan why McQuaid fell out. Mighta been when JV and Hein and Armstrong and Bruyneel were looking at buying the sport and making it a league. should have spoken to dana white or bernie ecclestone.

its good for laffs, nothin more. And More Glorious Than Hookers n Blow

#Not Normal.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Did they get to see what other wrote/confessed to before submitting their own ?

I would guess not, and that puts a very strong "prisoners dilemma" game on

Well Ryder's doesn't appear on the site, does it?

Here: http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Can't find it, nor the date it was recorded officially, but sounds like he did his on the 8th of October? Released on the 10th. Sounds like last man in to me?

Which is clearly all conjecture, but having been to court myself, we had directions to not discuss but only after having discussed it. I am sure no such restrictions were place or enforceable on these guys.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

When does JV reckon Ryder coughed up?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Did they get to see what other wrote/confessed to before submitting their own ?

I would guess not, and that puts a very strong "prisoners dilemma" game on

If it were athlete vs. athlete, I'd agree.

But, this is more of Saint JV's excellent work coordinating a strategic reveal of information. He takes Chicken's allegations and just elevates his own team's status. Well played JV.

DW, JV's on message. We'll never know unless Ryder goes Floyd Landis, which doesn't seem likely.

 

[blackcat]

When does JV reckon Ryder coughed up?

fur ball?

<angry cat meme>

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The graph of a rider who only doped in 2003/4:

Now, for the first time, he’s opening up, and here’s what he wants Victorians and cycling fans to know: Yes, he doped from late 2003 to mid-2004. Yes, he regrets doing so. No, he hasn’t done so since. All his road-riding success came drug-free. You can win that way in cycling, now. - See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...on-past-doping-1.1326391#sthash.pPMRobLp.dpuf

 

[D-Queued]

The graph of a rider who only doped in 2003/4:

I wonder, out loud, is this what JV had in mind when he recently stated that it would become very clear (soon?) that Ryder had not doped for the Giro?

Not saying that he did, and hoping that he didn't, I do have a couple of nits to pick based upon this article.

1. Phonak

“It was the same thing at Phonak. They had their guys who mattered, and everybody else was just filler.

“A lot of people say, ‘You had to dope just to be there.’ That’s not the case. I could do my job.”

Was he really just filler? He gave some pretty impressive support to doping Floyd in the Dauphine.

2. 2003 MTB World's Silver

"Not true — but he was dirty when he won silver at that 2003 world championship. The guys who won gold and bronze later got booted out for doping, too."

WHOA. Hold on a minute.

Ryder's palmares still include that silver medal.

Shouldn't he be apologizing and returning that medal?

That he hasn't returned that medal doesn't add up.

“...Is it significant that I crossed that line and doped? Certainly.”

"But ultimately, he says, it (doping) had no bearing on what he later accomplished.

“Those rides have been done the right way. … I’m proud of that. I hope people understand and believe that.” ..."

It might be easier for people to understand and believe this if he returned tainted or otherwise ill-gotten gains. Otherwise, we are to believe that he remains "proud of that" doping win as well, thus diminishing whatever he says about 'clean' wins.

Just saying.

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

“Those rides have been done the right way. … I’m proud of that. I hope people understand and believe that.” ..."

It might be easier for people to understand and believe this if he returned tainted or otherwise ill-gotten gains. Otherwise, we are to believe that he remains "proud of that" doping win as well, thus diminishing whatever he says about 'clean' wins.

For years after it was known JV had doped, the Slipstream website boasted of
1. his ground breaking training techniques AND
2. his world record Ventoux ascent

To me, these instances of unapologetic pride in doped performances are similar.

The fish rots from the head.

 

[westerner]

The reason for the stopping to dope date also seems a bit odd. Claims to have -stopped doping in 2004 when. "He was going backward on mountain biking’s World Cup circuit, finishing worse than when he rode clean." - See more at: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...on-past-doping-1.1326391#sthash.CQPnDDQw.dpuf

But a month earlier he seemed to have been riding quite well on the EPO regime, supporting George and getting a pretty nice result on the Primavera

Did he forget about this part of spring 2004?

Hesjedal was also preparing his post-Athens career by joining Lance Armstrong’s U.S. Postal Service team in 2004. So he debuted in European pro road racing that spring. I chatted with him in Bruges before the start of his first classic, the Tour of Flanders, where he told me how pleased he was to play a part in helping new teammate George Hincapie win the previous week’s Three Days of De Panne. Hesjedal didn’t finish Flanders, but a week later, in Spain, he got into the winning, eight-man breakaway at the extremely hilly Klasika Primavera in the Basque Country: He placed fifth behind winner Alejandro Valverde, and ahead of the Italian stars Damiano Cunego and Gilberto Simoni.
http://http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/05/tuesdays-with-wilcockson-hesjedal-was-always-a-star-in-the-making/

 

[westerner]

1. Phonak

“It was the same thing at Phonak. They had their guys who mattered, and everybody else was just filler.

Was he really just filler? He gave some pretty impressive support to doping Floyd in the Dauphine.

Ryder did not seem to think he was just filler back in 2006?

Second, the 2003 world championship silver medal mountain bike winner has made a name for himself on the road in a very short time. That's due mostly to pre Tour de France performances in Spain's Volta a Catalunya (fourth overall) and France's Dauphine Libere where he finished 17th overall and was Phonak's top-placed rider. Landis finished in 60th spot, some 43 minutes behind Hesjedal.

Those races just about got him a spot on the Tour team.

"Yeah, I mean there was always a possibility of riding it. I was riding and talking with the team and Floyd every day. It just came down to that point that they decided to go with a bit more experienced guys, but they were definitely pleased with how I was able to ride.

"They said straight up after the Dauphine, 'The Vuelta [Tour of Spain] is for you.' The whole part of being on a team is that they needed someone in the Vuelta.

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=d6894314-eaaa-4b86-a10f-7e219e009e53&sponsor=

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hesjedal was also preparing his post-Athens career by joining Lance Armstrong’s U.S. Postal Service team in 2004. So he debuted in European pro road racing that spring. I chatted with him in Bruges before the start of his first classic, the Tour of Flanders, where he told me how pleased he was to play a part in helping new teammate George Hincapie win the previous week’s Three Days of De Panne. Hesjedal didn’t finish Flanders, but a week later, in Spain, he got into the winning, eight-man breakaway at the extremely hilly Klasika Primavera in the Basque Country: He placed fifth behind winner Alejandro Valverde, and ahead of the Italian stars Damiano Cunego and Gilberto Simoni.
http://http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/05/tuesdays-with-wilcockson-hesjedal-was-always-a-star-in-the-making/

Funny reading that fanboi article with the knowledge now that Ryder has admitted doping during the years of his NORBA wins. All the, "He showed potential" fawning can be thrown out the window.

 

[blackcat]

Funny reading that fanboi article with the knowledge now that Ryder has admitted doping during the years of his NORBA wins. All the, "He showed potential" fawning can be thrown out the window.

jv assured us he won the Giro clean tho DW.

so its all good. cleansed his sins, repented. demonstrated his clean talent. saw the light. did not dope when he won.

 

[Benotti69]

jv assured us he won the Giro clean tho DW.

so its all good. cleansed his sins, repented. demonstrated his clean talent. saw the light. did not dope when he won.

hope your tongue is not hurting your cheek.....

 

[sniper]

hope your tongue is not hurting your cheek.....

not much left to say about ryder and jv.
epic levels of insulting and deliberately wrongfooting the fans.

 

[DirtyWorks]

2. 2003 MTB World's Silver

"Not true — but he was dirty when he won silver at that 2003 world championship. The guys who won gold and bronze later got booted out for doping, too."

WHOA. Hold on a minute.

Ryder's palmares still include that silver medal.

Shouldn't he be apologizing and returning that medal?

Dave, why do you hate winners? Everyone was doping. Blah, blah, blah.

Again, actions tell us everything. He's as apologetic as Levi.

To infuriate everyone, Ryder's Giro power analysis by veloclinic put him in the clean-ish range. JV's squad at least seems to run safely in the 'never tested positive' range.

You have to wonder what the changes at the team management level will be in 2015/16.

 

[D-Queued]

Dave, why do you hate winners? Everyone was doping. Blah, blah, blah.

...

Gosh, for a moment there I thought you might also suggest that I must love cancer.

Dave.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

To infuriate everyone, Ryder's Giro power analysis by veloclinic put him in the clean-ish range. JV's squad at least seems to run safely in the 'never tested positive' range.

And his blood profile matched.

If he did dope it was the most conservative program we have seen so far.

 

[D-Queued]

And his blood profile matched.

If he did dope it was the most conservative program we have seen so far.

Judging by the Vuelta, Garmin is looking more normal by the day.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

And his blood profile matched.

If he did dope it was the most conservative program we have seen so far.

Except his blood rose in the 3rd week of his Giro win, which JV blamed machine error for, same as Wiggins values fro 2009, machine error again.

Judging by the Vuelta, Garmin is looking more normal by the day.

Dave.

How would anyone know what normal looked like in cycling.....just others are on better, riskier, more dope.

 

[Samson777]

How would anyone know what normal looked like in cycling.....just others are on better, riskier, more dope.

It's a fair point obviously. But when you then go on, and arguee that the case is that others are on better, riskier, more dope.
Then you could wonder, how can you know? If you can not know what normal looks like. How can you know, that what Garmin shows at this moment, isn't normal?

I probably wouldn't dissagree with your conclusion, everything taken into consideration. Just the logic behind it, I'm not sure I follow.

 

[D-Queued]

Except his blood rose in the 3rd week of his Giro win, which JV blamed machine error for, same as Wiggins values fro 2009, machine error again.



How would anyone know what normal looked like in cycling.....just others are on better, riskier, more dope.

Fair point.

I can only speak for myself. When folks get spit out early on a climb, there are experiencing what is my normal.



Dave.