Ryder's blood

[Master50]

Furtive and dirty?

And perhaps it shows yours is completely trusting.



How about this? Does this sound like another "so what" article?

I have worked hard to have a without evidence there is no offence mindset and I would rather miss convicting any doper if it meant we would convict 1 innocent person. I also despise trials by innuendo. It is the act of a bully and is Lynch mob justice. So if you think this is trusting than I will wear that lable with pride.

I generally avoid clinic subjects but two get under my skin. Articles about people I know and subject about the UCI which I find continually offensive and if they apply to the UCI it is in the clinic? So generally I prefer to read and react to articles on technical subjects, bikes, race tactics, race radios, racing, and rules when I can provide the answer. I have opinions on subjects on doping but I prefer to keep most to myself since these discussions are seldom accompanied with proof.

My inside voice believed LA was a Cheater and a bully. It believed he doped and it believed most of the stories but until I read the reasoned decision I would not call him a cheat out loud so again maybe that is trusting but I prefer to think I am trying to stand up for my principles by example instead of engaging in libellous speculation including those things that pan out true.
In this thread I am sticking to the subject of Ryder and you can have all the fun in the world playing connect the dots but I don't see the connections. Do you have spiders running around in your head to make all these connections or how is it done? you read about lactate testing and the article had a needle in it and off you go?
Later

 

[zachateseverything]

Furtive and dirty?

And perhaps it shows yours is completely trusting.



How about this? Does this sound like another "so what" article?

Do you understand how lactate tests work? They *** your fingertip with a needle or razor and use a handheld device to measure the lactate levels. No blood is drawn and this isn't an injection site. It isn't any different from the cholesterol test many people are given by their doctors as part of an annual physical. Following your logic, every 40 year-old coach potato in the US is going to start doping with EPO because they are no longer afraid of needles.

It must be rough jumping at shadows all the time and being unable to enjoy a simple bike race.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It must be rough jumping at shadows all the time and being unable to enjoy a simple bike race.

I know I have been bested when another poster gets personal.

 

[peterst6906]

I know I have been bested when another poster gets personal.

Don't get carried away. It was only the facts that bested you.

But without any experience with a lactate test it is easy to assume a needle is used.

 

[mtb Dad]

If you learn how to adjust (I was going to say impose) morals and ethics in/upon others, correct greed, corruption, and human ego you best share it. The world has been waiting for you! The same problems are expressed in virtually every human pursuit at this point, you have a big job.

As for me, I do things according to my own criteria. If someone presents a circumstance I don't want to be part of, I leave. If that's being part of the problem so be it. Ultimately it's individuals that make the choices, there are always choices.

Sorry, I went a little hard there. I commend your decision not to. And yes there are choices. There's also a choice about what rules we have in sport and who enforces them.

As for social engineering, what you are suggesting the anti-doping effort is, its not about waving a wand and changing people. It's about just enforcing the basic rules and not being afraid to catch and exclude few few cheaters. The UCI didn't fail at social engineering, it failed at traffic cop 101.

And social engineering isn't that far fetched. Some pretty major social habits have changed through education and enforcement: smoking, littering, recycling, spousal abuse, workplace discrimination, have all taken major turns in the last 50 years.

We all fell for cancer jesus. Who's to say we can't fall for elite athletes as, god forbid, role models? They're pretty talented people. Maybe we should let them be, with a sport system that allows it.

 

[gillan1969]

My inside voice believed LA was a Cheater and a bully. It believed he doped and it believed most of the stories but until I read the reasoned decision I would not call him a cheat out loud so again maybe that is trusting but I prefer to think I am trying to stand up for my principles by example instead of engaging in libellous speculation including those things that pan out true.
In this thread I am sticking to the subject of Ryder and you can have all the fun in the world playing connect the dots but I don't see the connections. Do you have spiders running around in your head to make all these connections or how is it done? you read about lactate testing and the article had a needle in it and off you go?
Later

winners of three week tours are a rare breed, ones you can generally tell might be winners at a young age...rarely do riders such as Lance, Ryder, Wiggo (or Froome) become GT winners late in long careers where such talents may have made themselves apparent....so rarely that when they do, questions are automatically raised.....

 

[Master50]

winners of three week tours are a rare breed, ones you can generally tell might be winners at a young age...rarely do riders such as Lance, Ryder, Wiggo (or Froome) become GT winners late in long careers where such talents may have made themselves apparent....so rarely that when they do, questions are automatically raised.....

Ryder is a late Starter but I get the association but remember I see the world through rose colored glasses relative to the regulars in the clinic and I am also taking it personal as I said I know the subject for 1/2 his life. Based on all I know of him including anything I have heard locally says Ryder won clean. His closest friends say it straight. Maybe it is better evidence the race is getting honest. Watch him this year, With good luck I think he will show he is a top GC rider. I'll be watching
It used to be that a lot of GT winners won late in life relative to athlete years. Ryder is what 33 this year? Might be his peak years are now?

 

[Benotti69]

Ryder is a late Starter but I get the association but remember I see the world through rose colored glasses relative to the regulars in the clinic and I am also taking it personal as I said I know the subject for 1/2 his life. Based on all I know of him including anything I have heard locally says Ryder won clean. His closest friends say it straight. Maybe it is better evidence the race is getting honest. Watch him this year, With good luck I think he will show he is a top GC rider. I'll be watching
It used to be that a lot of GT winners won late in life relative to athlete years. Ryder is what 33 this year? Might be his peak years are now?

Do you think the dopers tell their mates outside of the sport?

Racing is not getting honest. Don't believe the hype!

 

[D-Queued]

Ryder is a late Starter but I get the association but remember I see the world through rose colored glasses relative to the regulars in the clinic and I am also taking it personal as I said I know the subject for 1/2 his life. Based on all I know of him including anything I have heard locally says Ryder won clean. His closest friends say it straight. Maybe it is better evidence the race is getting honest. Watch him this year, With good luck I think he will show he is a top GC rider. I'll be watching
It used to be that a lot of GT winners won late in life relative to athlete years. Ryder is what 33 this year? Might be his peak years are now?

Of course.

You mean cyclists like Merckx, Hinault, LeMond, Andy Schleck, Contador et al? Or even late bloomer Lance (2nd youngest World Champion)?

Admittedly, Indurain doesn't quite make that list as he was a bit old at 27 to win Le Tour. He did, however, have five TdF's and a couple of Giro's by age 32.

Ryder is 33?

Contador had already won all three Grand Tours by age 30.

What is Ryder waiting for?

Dave.

 

[Ferminal]

Dave, haven't you been listening to JV? Only now has the sport cleaned up enough for his superior clean talents to win.

 

[D-Queued]

Dave, haven't you been listening to JV? Only now has the sport cleaned up enough for his superior clean talents to win.

I'm listening.

But, while there may reason for encouragement, I am thinking of moving to Missouri. (the 'Show Me' state)

There is a certain incongruence when you try and juxtapose the success of an athlete who is well past their genetically endowed prime and the supposed lack of artificial enhancement that would normally explain the extension of their prime.

Then again, maybe it is just me and I am too old to believe new tricks.

There is this 'encouraging' evidence from Football:

Four years ago, I asked Dr. Jean-Pierre Meersseman, the Belgian director general of AC Milan’s “Milan Lab,” the best medical team in soccer, what the maximum age was for a top-class player. “I think it’s around 40,” he replied. “It used to be 33, 34 at the most.”

We probably need to observe that it is odd that match-fixing in Football is getting so much attention these days.

Dave.

 

[The Chicken]

.............

 

[sniper]

Ryder,
could hardly win anything whilst on the juice.
But jv made him see the light, so he could win the giro clean.

 

[D-Queued]

.............

Now that the Chicken has spilled the beans on teaching Ryder how to use EPO and Synacthen, perhaps we can have a real discussion about Ryder's 'past'.

Just posted this on the JV thread:

Now that this little secret is out, let me provide some insight into JV's actions and awareness.

I was well aware of Ryder's doping, and it was an open secret within the ranks in Canada. In fact, I was actually approached to start openly communicating this by the manager of a rival team.

This was well before Ryder rode for Phonak, but his exploits in the Dauphine on Phonak were laughable - when you knew what he was up to. Floyd's Tour nonsense provided the complete confirmation of what was going on within Phonak.

Fast forward to Garmin's interest in Ryder, before Ryder was signed, and the team's strong anti-doping stance.

With the help of a mutual friend, I contacted JV directly and advised him that it was a virtual certainty that Ryder had been a doper.

We had an open and frank discussion about the fact that it was well known within certain circles that Ryder was a doper.

To his credit, JV didn't dodge the issue for a moment.

I left that conversation with the strong belief that JV was true to his word.

He confirmed that he was "well aware of Ryder's past", and that they had discussed it. He also confirmed that Ryder had been provided with chapter and verse on the need to adhere to the team's policy.

My sense was that because they had both had an experience with Lance that JV's philosophy was likely to be successful with Ryder.

My guess is that if I spoke to JV about Ryder, I may not have been alone. Thus, he would also be well aware that if Ryder doped at Garmin and was caught, it would be a major embarrassment for him.

While I did parry a bit with JV when he did post on this thread, I am still convinced that he was telling the truth.

Whether Ryder ever resorted to old habits and was able to fool JV, Garmin's screens, and the UCI's testing (easiest of all), I cannot say.

Dave.

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

Can someone please update Wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

Dave.

 

[Michele]

So now Ryder has 3 choices;

-totally ignore the Rasmussen's whole book (kinda old style)
-suddenly retire (kind of the new trend)
-admit everything but that things changed from 2006 onwards and get a 6 winter months ban (this apply only to english speaking riders)

 

[thehog]

So now Ryder has 3 choices;

-totally ignore the Rasmussen's whole book (kinda old style)
-suddenly retire (kind of the new trend)
-admit everything but that things changed from 2006 onwards and get a 6 winter months ban (this apply only to english speaking riders)

Needs to admit now so he can be back racing in March. Although Ryder might have to go through Canada AD and not USADA for the 6 month all exspenses paid holiday.

Maybe might throw out the "Ras has an axe to grind. Bitter ex-doper" ?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Needs to admit now so he can be back racing in March. Although Ryder might have to do through Canada AD and not USADA for the 6 month all exspenses paid holiday.

Maybe might throw out the "Ras has an axe to grind. Bitter ex-doper" ?

How about he never tested positive ?

 

[Alex76]

How about he never tested positive ?

Over 500 tests, most tested Canadian athlete?

 

[BYOP88]

Over 500 tests, most tested Canadian athlete?

This!!!!!

 

[pastronef]

Needs to admit now so he can be back racing in March. Although Ryder might have to go through Canada AD and not USADA for the 6 month all exspenses paid holiday.

are we sure Canada federation will give him the famous 6 months ban, and with decisions about doping talking so long to see an end, will they decide what to do soon? (that IF he decides to admit doping in 2003)

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Needs to admit now so he can be back racing in March. Although Ryder might have to go through Canada AD and not USADA for the 6 month all exspenses paid holiday.

Maybe might throw out the "Ras has an axe to grind. Bitter ex-doper" ?

One would think he needs to deliver something useful for the anti dope guys to get 6 months only. Maybe he can rat on somebody else. That should keep the ball rolling.....

 

[Netserk]

As long as he only admit to things more than 8 years ago, he should be fine and get the same punishment JV got...

 

[thehog]

One would think he needs to deliver something useful for the anti dope guys to get 6 months only. Maybe he can rat on somebody else. That should keep the ball rolling.....

What's with the Canadians and their spines?

Barry, RH?

They're not into confessing are they?

 

[pastronef]

it's always a PR problem. as somebody wrote on the Johan thread, maybe Garmin Sharp sponsors will have something to worry about

anyway, I always wondered why JV and his friends kept on talking about the clean cycling, new era, tramadol policy etc etc.

just shut up and ride