Shleck vs Contador - showdown.

[laurentiu46]

Well, it's pretty clear that's what you hope.
As for it being true, we will have to wait until July to find out.
That's unless you are going to loan out your crystal ball.

Last year? I remember the Hautcam stage, too.
Like the Fayence stage in Paris-Nice, perhaps?

I also remember Monte Pora and the Marmolada.

Nothing is set in stone......

Contador was not at his best in the Giro.Apart from Monte Pora and Fedaia,he also lost time on the Pampeago and got beaten by Pellizotti and Simoni on the gravel roads of Plan de Corones.
The difference is that Andy bonked in the Tour while Alberto did it in Paris-Nice. 1-0 for AC.
The Schlecks,and not only them,are lucky that the ITT kms won't be as much as in the previous years.

Hey,we're talking about the two guys' climbing skills,but did somebody mention the TTT? It could create a certain gap.
Probably Garmin will fly over that course,with Astana second and Saxo third. But i don't think the differences between Johan and Bjarne's teams will be big,no matter in favour of who they are.

 

[Christian]

FOLKS,
Remember that you are watching Andy climb in the ARDENNES; these are very very very different climbs than a rider must face in the Tour. Ardennes climbs are about 5 minute long efforts at the most, whereas Tour Cols are 40 minute to an hour long slogs up mountains.

The problem so far for Andy in the Classics was that the climbs were not long enough, because for him it's the longer and the tougher, the better. So I don't think your point is valuable

 

[franciep10]

Here's what I think Contador has a great acceleration he has alson shown he can ride away from people look what he did in paris nice when he just rode away from frank shcleck, now andy he's not going to match contador's acceleration but he's going to ride a hard pace to bring him back basically contador can ride away from schleck, and andy can't drop contador, some are going to differ with this but who cares, and contador is a better ITT so I think Contador wins but it's going to set up a heck of a rivalry

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

This is by comparison a climber's Tour, definitely.

Let's look back to the days of Indurain when the total time trail KM's were near 200km. There would often be a very long TTT - and not with time fixing like today, then usually two very long 50+ km ITT's, sometimes up to 70km in length.

This year's Tour TTT really should favor Astana, even if Kloden isn't riding.

Agree, the Ventoux will tell the tale, but also who wears themselves out beforehand. Recall that last year's ITT should have really favored Evans, but he was done by the time they got there, while Sastre still had something in the tank.

I'd love to see Tour organizers eliminate race radios for riders, or in team cars, for just the Ventoux stage. That would really make things interesting.

 

[Christian]

This year's Tour TTT really should favor Astana, even if Kloden isn't riding.

I'd say it favors Saxo Bank, who have time trialists like Cancellara or Voigt. I think that way A. Schleck will lose less time than in an individual TT

 

[laurentiu46]

I'd say it favors Saxo Bank, who have time trialists like Cancellara or Voigt. I think that way A. Schleck will lose less time than in an individual TT

But you agree that Saxo will lose some time,more or less.
Contador,Levi and Lance should be as good as Cancellara and Voigt in the TTT.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Here's what I think Contador has a great acceleration he has alson shown he can ride away from people look what he did in paris nice when he just rode away from frank shcleck, now andy he's not going to match contador's acceleration but he's going to ride a hard pace to bring him back basically contador can ride away from schleck, and andy can't drop contador, some are going to differ with this but who cares, and contador is a better ITT so I think Contador wins but it's going to set up a heck of a rivalry

Hmmmmm I don't know. I don't think he has that good acceleration. It may look good in the ****y races but he aint going to outrun the Saxo train. I think also Contador overacts when he attacks. Throws the bike side to side but it doesn't really get him anywhere. Still can see the A.Shleck ****ing all over him on the long Alpine climbs. It will come down to how much time Contador can take in the TT's.

 

[franciep10]

Hmmmmm I don't know. I don't think he has that good acceleration. It may look good in the ****y races but he aint going to outrun the Saxo train. I think also Contador overacts when he attacks. Throws the bike side to side but it doesn't really get him anywhere. Still can see the A.Shleck ****ing all over him on the long Alpine climbs. It will come down to how much time Contador can take in the TT's.

I like Andy but that throwing the bike side to side has got him three grand tour's andy has 1 major win in his career now you don't think he has a good acceleration tell that to the rider's that have shoeprints on their *** from contador, if you're going to say all of that you better have facts to back you up, in two years time you can maybe be right with this one but not now. on a sidenote I was impressed with his giro win last year yeah he got dropped on some climbs but he was resilient.

 

[BikeCentric]

The problem so far for Andy in the Classics was that the climbs were not long enough, because for him it's the longer and the tougher, the better. So I don't think your point is valuable

Schleck just got 2nd at FL and won LBL yesterday so he's clearly trained himself to be very strong and put out high power on these kinds of short climbs of the Ardennes Classics.

Now I agree that we've also seen him climb fairly well in the Grand Trours but the point I'm making is that I don't think we've yet to see him show that long climbs are a strength of his. And conversely he just proved in the past week that short climbs ARE a strength of his. It is a rare rider that can make both types his strength, but certainly not unheard of. Schleck is certainly on course to be a great rider so I won't dismiss his talents.

 

[Kazistuta]

And another thing that speaks against Andy: His downhill skills. He's clearly better than his older brother, but Frank's almost as untechnical as they come.

AC on the other hand has proven on several occasions that he knows how to descend. Obviously he neither is a Samuel or LL Sanchez, but IMO he's clearly in advantage in this field as well.

I'll rank Andy and Alberto almost as equals reg. the climbing skills (although AC has proven to be climbing superbly this season even when he allegedly "wasn't feeling all that great"), but along with the TT advantage he'll get, I'll say he's in for at least a couple of minutes lead in the overall when arriving at Champs Élysées.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Schleck just got 2nd at FL and won LBL yesterday so he's clearly trained himself to be very strong and put out high power on these kinds of short climbs of the Ardennes Classics.

Now I agree that we've also seen him climb fairly well in the Grand Trours but the point I'm making is that I don't think we've yet to see him show that long climbs are a strength of his. And conversely he just proved in the past week that short climbs ARE a strength of his. It is a rare rider that can make both types his strength, but certainly not unheard of. Schleck is certainly on course to be a great rider so I won't dismiss his talents.

I thought he did pretty well on long climbs when he took third overall in the Giro...

I might be mistaken, but he was hanging with the leaders there, wasn't he? And that was two years ago, I think.

I don't think Schleck will beat Contador this year, but someday the Spaniard will be dethroned, and the younger Schleck isn't a bad bet for that role.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I seem to recall Contador picking up a couple of nasty injuries, a couple of years back, falling on decents.

I think Astana have the edge in the TTT. However, if LA and JB want to mess with Bertie's chances, they'll stick him behind Leipheimer in the line.
Not much protection there!

 

[franciep10]

im just posting something so it will get back to the top of the forum

 

[ingsve]

I'd say it favors Saxo Bank, who have time trialists like Cancellara or Voigt. I think that way A. Schleck will lose less time than in an individual TT

Saxo Bank also has Gustav Larsson to help on TTT if he gets to ride the tour which I think he might. Also Stuart O'Grady is pretty strong as is Kurt Asle Arvesen.

It all depends on what their team will look like for the tour and how much of an hinderance Fränk and Andy would be for a TTT team.

 

[benpounder]

I have to disagree. I think Saxo have a mighty team. Comparable to Astana if not better. Outside of Levi and that other bloke from Texas they're not that strong. I'm assuming Kloden will be pulled by ASO so that’s not a lot of backup. Compare that to Canc, O'Grady, Frank etc. and that’s one mighty team. In addition they will all ride for the young boy Shleck. Astana have there own problems and I can see Contador not obeying team orders. He hates Levi and I'm not sure how he feels about the bloke from Texas America. He will attack outside team orders.

Sounds like wishful thinking more than honest analysis.

 

[benpounder]

I think it's a tougher call than people think.
Two very strong teams......on paper.
I actually believe Contador's climbing is a little over-rated.
To me, he hasn't quite got the punch he had in 2007 and Rasmussen eventually got the better of him on the Aubisque.

Not to dismiss your later point about Andy in last year's TdF, but chickenlegs was pulled just after getting the better of Berto in 07. Sure, there are no "official" charges against Michael R., but if we hold the same standards some hold to "that dude from Texas", then Rasmussen is guilty, guilty, GUILTY!

 

[franciep10]

most of saxo bank riders are good to great riders but aren't good climbers, except for frank whos going to be riding for the jersey also compared to Levi, LA, Jani, Horner ,popovych, Haimar,and maybe kloden and the best kazahk rider so who has the better team.

 

[skidmark]

Either way, they're both fantastic young talents. Watching Andy this week got me excited with anticipation of future GT showdowns between the two. I've been worried that racing might get boring with AC dominating every GT he's in, but if AS climbs as beautifully and smoothly as he did this week in the Tour, I don't think that will happen. Those two may have some fantastic showdowns in their future. I hope they do this year, that's for sure.

As for who's better on the climbs, who knows? We've never really seen them go head to head in a race that both were trying seriously to win. But AC's efforts in his 3 GTs, and AS's efforts last year in Liege, the Tour, the Olympics, and this year in the Ardennes, to name a few, show that he has an incredible engine and climbing power. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop each other regularly, depending on the day.

Here's hoping for a fantastic Tour.

 

[benpounder]

After reading the thread, I've got to come back to this:

Generally I would favour the time trialer over the better climber in close GC battles but this tour might be diffrent for one simple reason, Mont Ventoux.

As someone mentioned, a Brunell led team exquisitely focused on the TdF. Horner, Popovych, and Zubeldia should be able to dog any other teams' aggresive domestique. That leaves Rubiera and ___ to protect ___. With the blank filled by Leipheimer, Kloden, Armstrong, or Contador.

Personally I think even if Kloden id cleared of all gossip (and at this point, gossip is all that it is), ASO will refuse his participation. Further, Lance, much to the chagrin of both the lance haters and lance lovers, is just a good PR stunt. IF he finishes the TdF, it will be as superb foil, and OK domestique. That leaves Levi and Alberto at captain, with a host of really strong support, support that isn't playing the wishful thinking game that those outside the team are wont to do.

Now all this is not to say I think Astana will run away with the TdF. Rather, that Brunell will be well aware of who the threats are (as will Riis), and will have riders in a position to mark similar riders on other teams. With Ventoux at the end, all weaknesses will be revealed, so they had better not enter the stage with truly exploitable weaknesses.

Both Astana and Saxo will have someone on the podium I predict (Levi, Alberto, Frank, Carlos, or Andy). Evans and a good host of others are going to get shelled in that battle.

 

[180mmCrank]

One thing is for sure I don't think the racing this year will be boring ... reminds me of the anticipation pre 2006 Tour ... hopefully we will get to see the race this time rather than just feel the disappointment.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Further, Lance, much to the chagrin of both the lance haters and lance lovers, is just a good PR stunt. IF he finishes the TdF, it will be as superb foil, and OK domestique. That leaves Levi and Alberto at captain, with a host of really strong support.

I don't disagree with your statement, but it's peculiar isn't it that Levi said after he won the ToC that he would "repay" Lance by riding for him at the Tour. Very strange, surprising lack of confidence by Levi. Disappointing.

Michael R., but if we hold the same standards some hold to "that dude from Texas", then Rasmussen is guilty, guilty, GUILTY!

Well I do. If I were King, because neither "tested positive", skating by on technicalities, I'd allow them both to race, but only on a domestic, Continential team. This means they could ride for a team like Rock Racing (where they would fit in) for example.

 

[benpounder]

This means they could ride for a team like Rock Racing (where they would fit in) for example.

But Rock Racing hired Cipo...

course if Rock had hired Zabel instead, then them would have been true fightin words...

 

[happygilmore]

I like Schleck, but he can't hold AC's jock much less his wheel. The difference in the time trials will be minutes not seconds. AC will smoke everyone at the Tour this year and for years to come. It will be exciting to watch though unlike last year.

 

[benpounder]

AC will smoke everyone at the Tour this year and for years to come. It will be exciting to watch though unlike last year.

Got to love unintended irony...

...or was that satire?

 

[BigBoat]

The Grand Tour show hasnt started yet. Lance versus Basso. Still my 2 favorites outside of a bust or ban. Lance might not care at all about this Giro and just ride it like Ullrich did in 2006. And then show up at the Tour with all his guns.

Andy/ Frank Schleck 2009 remind me of Iban Mayo/ Haimar Zubeldia of 2003.