Shleck vs Contador - showdown.

[Baggins27]

The nine minutes was down to not eating enough on the day though wasn't it? He's unlikely to make that mistake again....


I do agree with your overall point though. A Schleck is still young and seems to have a habit of putting in a VERY bad day here and there. You can't afford to do that when up against the likes of Contador.

I do think he will win a Tour one day. Just not this year.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

The nine minutes was down to not eating enough on the day though wasn't it? He's unlikely to make that mistake again....


I do agree with your overall point though. A Schleck is still young and seems to have a habit of putting in a VERY bad day here and there. You can't afford to do that when up against the likes of Contador.

I do think he will win a Tour one day. Just not this year.

I agree, he is a good rider and may be able to win a GT. I also agree with you about the experience. Eating or not eating comes with experience. So the it is not about food compsumption but rather having the experience to know and remember to do it. Until then, he will continue to have a bad 9 minute day every time racing a GT.

 

[Zoncolan]

I agree, he is a good rider and may be able to win a GT. I also agree with you about the experience. Eating or not eating comes with experience. So the it is not about food compsumption but rather having the experience to know and remember to do it. Until then, he will continue to have a bad 9 minute day every time racing a GT.

There is another thread called 'eliminate race radios?'
What I find interesting is, that the DS of Saxo-Riis, or JB of Astana, who are, along with Lefevre generally regarded as the best at what they do today, don't remind their riders to eat during races.
So dropping the ball is on them?

 

[LugHugger]

I agree, he is a good rider and may be able to win a GT. I also agree with you about the experience. Eating or not eating comes with experience. So the it is not about food compsumption but rather having the experience to know and remember to do it. Until then, he will continue to have a bad 9 minute day every time racing a GT.

How about this argument: Riis invests the future in Andy and not Franck. After all, it's the younger who is most likely to win the overall. Do you think that Andy will ever lose 9 minutes again in any mountain stage as a result of not fuelling? Do you think that there is a climber who can put 9 minutes into Andy bearing in mind his performance on the Alpe last year and the speed of his attack at the weekend? For me, atmo, Andy is the future of Saxo Bank and the rider to challenge AC for the forseeable future.

 

[Baggins27]

How about this argument: Riis invests the future in Andy and not Franck. After all, it's the younger who is most likely to win the overall. Do you think that Andy will ever lose 9 minutes again in any mountain stage as a result of not fuelling? Do you think that there is a climber who can put 9 minutes into Andy bearing in mind his performance on the Alpe last year and the speed of his attack at the weekend? For me, atmo, Andy is the future of Saxo Bank and the rider to challenge AC for the forseeable future.

I do actually agree with most of that. It's just that Andy does seem to have those bad days a bit too often at the moment. Having said that, he did finish second in the Giro didn't he? So that proves he can do it.

I suppose this years Tour will reveal all. I have no doubt he's a GT winner in the future though.



An interesting point about the DS and the race radio's earlier though. Is it the DS's job to remind riders to eat/drink enough? Or would they assume the riders know what their own bodies need?

 

[ak-zaaf]

I have to disagree with all of you. In a GT, is not how strong and hard of a beating you can put in the field. Well, probably in a sense it is, but most importantly is about limiting your losses when you are having a bad day. Last year at the Vande Velde had that problem and lost a podium chance. For Schleck on the Hautacam stage he lost 9 minutes.
Now you may say that he was not the leader of the team. Let me ask you, is the young Schleck in a spot where he can be a team leader? If I am Riss, I would bank my buck with the Frank.

At a certain point of the 2007 Giro every next stage was the stage where Andy was gonna have to let the big guys go. Until there was just one flat stage left. I honestly do not think he will have a total off-day at every Tour he's gonna do.


I honestly think Frank is not capable of winning any of the Grand Tours. If Andy can improve his TT a bit, we've got a monster.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

I really enjoyed the comment about DS and radios. whatever your opinion is on it, it is just interesting how they are being used in cycling.... I have no doubt that Riss (pun intended whitetrashboy) was on the radio talking to Andy at L-B-L on the last 10k like a madman.
Now, I am not saying that Andy is not a GC contender. I am saying that he is not a serious threat right now because he has bad days and cannot limit his losses. As for the second position on the Giro you need to put it in perspective. He was not racing Contador, he was racing "The Killer", "The Cobra", "Il Picolo Principe" who are talented riders but they cannot compare to "El Pistolero".
I want to remember you that Cunego won the Giro at 23 and was the new hope of Italian cycling, but since then he has been unable to deliver again.
Schleck is 23, I think, right now and he has a bright future ahead. Hopefully he stays away from drugs. If he gets involved with drugs, that means only more drama to the cycling soap opera. It is nothing but a soap opera.

 

[Baggins27]

"He was not racing Contador, he was racing "The Killer", "The Cobra", "Il Picolo Principe" who are talented riders but they cannot compare to "El Pistolero"."


That's a good point.

 

[patswana]

There is another thread called 'eliminate race radios?'
What I find interesting is, that the DS of Saxo-Riis, or JB of Astana, who are, along with Lefevre generally regarded as the best at what they do today, don't remind their riders to eat during races.
So dropping the ball is on them?

Of course the DS's remind the riders to eat & drink.
But when something goes wrong with the drug cocktail and the rider has an off day, then the "forgot to eat" or "stomach bug" excuses are useful.

 

[tashimi76]

I agree with Riis backing Andy as much as possible, he's always favoured the rising star - look at his work with Hamilton, Basso when he also had Sastre in the wings. He could be tricky though and have Frank as the official leader until Andy is ready to surprise.

 

[ak-zaaf]

"He was not racing Contador, he was racing "The Killer", "The Cobra", "Il Picolo Principe" who are talented riders but they cannot compare to "El Pistolero"."


That's a good point.

He also wasn't capable of winning LBL at that point. It's two years ago. Doing something like that at that age is something special no matter who you race.

To put it another way, Contador wasn't as good as Schleck was at that age.


The point being made was about Schleck having a total-off day every grand tour he will do.

 

[unsheath]

Tactically, it'll all depend on the time gaps generated from the ITT and TTT. A 1.30 to 2.00 means Saxo have to be extremely aggressive in the mountains. That's 3-4 minutes they'll need to make up, and given F.Schleck is the only helper on the gradients, it seems very unlikely.

 

[jonjungel]

Just a quickie about climbs in the Ardennes compared to the Alps.

At the top of Roche aux Faucons Andy had 10-15 seconds on the chasing group. He made the difference on the flats and downhill, doing a 20km TT after 240km in the peloton.

 

[Baggins27]

He also wasn't capable of winning LBL at that point. It's two years ago. Doing something like that at that age is something special no matter who you race.

To put it another way, Contador wasn't as good as Schleck was at that age.


The point being made was about Schleck having a total-off day every grand tour he will do.

I don't think he will have an off day on every grand tour ever. I just don't think he will manage to avoid one at this years Tour and therefore won't challenge Contador. He is still young and improving.

As I've said, I think he is a nailed on future GT winner. And he seems a great kid. I was cheering him on at L-B-L and would like nothing better than to see him challenge for this years Tour. I just think it's unlikely.

 

[tashimi76]

Just a quickie about climbs in the Ardennes compared to the Alps.

At the top of Roche aux Faucons Andy had 10-15 seconds on the chasing group. He made the difference on the flats and downhill, doing a 20km TT after 240km in the peloton.

That's a very good point and also quite interesting.

 

[Rob_Roy]

The nine minutes was down to not eating enough on the day though wasn't it? He's unlikely to make that mistake again....


I do agree with your overall point though. A Schleck is still young and seems to have a habit of putting in a VERY bad day here and there. You can't afford to do that when up against the likes of Contador.

I do think he will win a Tour one day. Just not this year.

I remember last year when Contador was on the beach sunbathing when he got the info that he should get on a flight to Italy.

Not even Ricco on CERA could drop him at that time in the Giro,and I seriously doubt that Contador was in full form.

I might cheer a lil extra for Schleck but I have to be a little realistic though about his chances to drop Contador.Give Schleck a few more years and he will gain the needed hardness,but until then I think Contador will be to tough.

 

[Animal]

Not even Ricco on CERA could drop him at that time in the Giro,and I seriously doubt that Contador was in full form.

And you're happy about that?

 

[mr. tibbs]

After reading that journal entry thing from Schleck (where he's sitting on the side of the road w/ a dying laptop and a dead car), I am definitely now firmly in his camp.

Having said that, I also think it'd be nice if one of the other teams got the win. Here's hoping that Menchov, Evans, Vande Velde, or etc manage to mix it up enough that the winner (or even the podium) isn't decided until Ventoux!

 

[Cartesian Centaur]

After reading that journal entry thing from Schleck (where he's sitting on the side of the road w/ a dying laptop and a dead car), I am definitely now firmly in his camp.

Having said that, I also think it'd be nice if one of the other teams got the win. Here's hoping that Menchov, Evans, Vande Velde, or etc manage to mix it up enough that the winner (or even the podium) isn't decided until Ventoux!

Agreed! I was looking forward to reading Andy's thoughts on the win, definitely didn't disappoint. As long as he doesn't now start with the obnoxious victory salutes...

I hope you're right about the race staying open too, not least because if it all comes down to the Ventoux I'll be there to watch the fireworks.

 

[dolophonic]

It will be good for sure, not to forget Basso. He can climb also.

 

[Baggins27]

I hope it does come down to the Ventoux..... I'm not sure it will but I hope it does.

 

[Zoncolan]

It will be good for sure, not to forget Basso. He can climb also.

He'll be climbing allright, only in the Dolomites

 

[peloton]

It will be good for sure, not to forget Basso. He can climb also.[/QUOT

mmm, Basso is not riding the Tour this year because of his doping, err, sorry, intended doping, bust.

 

[biker jk]

Not even Ricco on CERA could drop him at that time in the Giro,and I seriously doubt that Contador was in full form.

Are you really that naive? It wasn't "form" that was propelling Contador.

 

[El Loto]

Are you really that naive? It wasn't "form" that was propelling Contador.

He had to hurry round Italy because he left his gear on the beach. The beach in Madrid............