Steakgate latest: Contador positive for Clenbuterol in four different tests

[nicholaaaas]

So don't suspend Contador, change the rules? I can't see it happening.

i bet it does

How doesn't matter.

There isn't a floor. People have been suspended for it before in a variety of sports. US swimmer Jessica Hardy was suspended for testing positive for it and missed the olympics. This isn't some new drug or new test or new guidelines. It's been around for a while and the testing standard hasn't ever been changed, despite several people (including Hardy) saying they were positive due to eating contaminated food or supplements.

You're trying to change the rules after the fact because someone you like got busted.

ok so what does your post prove? that maybe it IS flawed. and as much as I dislike Lance or AS; I'd still hate to see either of them popped in such a ridiculous way

 

[Colm.Murphy]

i bet it does



ok so what does your post prove? that maybe it IS flawed. and as much as I dislike Lance or AS; I'd still hate to see either of them popped in such a ridiculous way

Where were your tears and protestations for Fuyu Li?

They give cows plenty of growth hormones, and there is no allowable limit for that. Are you suggesting there should be?

So, in summary, you'd like to give AC a pass due to the fact that clenbuterol shows up in maybe 0.0004% of beef samples? Please tell me this is correct.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Hey, the gods of sport have removed previous limits on caffeine and ephedrine (which are now carte blanche). Why not clen? How about salbutamol while they're at it? Chrystal meth is prevalent in the States, how about that? Since all the EPO-type pharms are 'therapeutic', how about them too?

No one's getting popped for clen from eating some spanish meat. And I thought Tyler's argument was weak...

 

[scribe]

They should definitely test for meth before allowing posting privileges here for some of these guys

 

[kurtinsc]

ok so what does your post prove? that maybe it IS flawed. and as much as I dislike Lance or AS; I'd still hate to see either of them popped in such a ridiculous way

For some reason I've always thought a positive test during or shortly after the event was the best way to be caught doping. It seems much more straight forward then analyzing results against known dopers or retesting samples from 5 years earlier.

Apparently you favor changing the testing rules after a positive test on a rider you like. We'll just have to differ on that. Even if they do change the rules, I don't think it should apply to Contador... just future positives. Everyone else prior to Contador had to pay the price for a positive test. We've had baseball players get 50 game suspensions for taking the stuff, swimmers miss the olympics, a couple of cyclists have beens suspended this year, and a judo champion had to return a world championship medal. Even if the rule changes going forward, I fail to see why Contador should get special treatment based on what the rules were when he tested positive.

 

[TubularBills]

a positive is a positive is a positive... no shades of gray... 'A' positive, rider given option for 'B' test... 'B' positive, accept the consequences.

Excuses are like axxholes, everyone has one.

Great rider to watch though, while it lasted... impressive.

Hope he turns out legitimately clean, but with the evidence... unlikely.

What a shame.

 

[HoustonHammer]

What's even more interesting is the stories I read initially specifically said "Adverse Analytical Finding". Did the UCI wave their magic wand?

You're right - it's really interesting. In fact, the UCI press release of 30 September clearly states that AC returned an "adverse analytical finding" and that he was "provisionally suspended".

The reason it's so interesting is that all of their treatment of the AC case is consistent with how an Atypical Finding is supposed to be managed (i.e. you can tell the athlete but not announce it publicly, do investigation before proceeding, etc.) per the World Anti-Doping Code. But the code doesn't seem to allow for any of these things in respect of an Adverse Analytical Finding. There is no wiggle room for either an exogenous substance or a non-threshold substance (Clen is BOTH); if both the A and B sample contain any quantity of exogenous or non-threshold substances, and the athlete doesn't have a TUE, and the finding wasn't the result of a lab error, then the athlete is judged to have committed a doping violation. Period. And you move to determining the penalty.

So what the heck is going on? Unless there's a suggestion that a mistake was made in the lab work (and there's been nary a whisper of that) then what the UCI is doing appears to be completely outside the bounds of what's prescribed by the Code. It's crazy.

 

[nicholaaaas]

Where were your tears and protestations for Fuyu Li?

They give cows plenty of growth hormones, and there is no allowable limit for that. Are you suggesting there should be?

So, in summary, you'd like to give AC a pass due to the fact that clenbuterol shows up in maybe 0.0004% of beef samples? Please tell me this is correct.

yes i am... ANYTHING THAT IS IN THE FOOD STREAM SHOULD HAVE A FLOOR. I feel bad for Li Fuyu as well. I'm not going to apologise for not looking further into it when he tested "positive" thou. they're humans just like us. and obviously I'm going to take a greater interest in someone prominent

 

[nicholaaaas]

Hey, the gods of sport have removed previous limits on caffeine and ephedrine (which are now carte blanche). Why not clen? How about salbutamol while they're at it? Chrystal meth is prevalent in the States, how about that? Since all the EPO-type pharms are 'therapeutic', how about them too?

No one's getting popped for clen from eating some spanish meat. And I thought Tyler's argument was weak...

meth will just make you ride in circles and think you're doing something

 

[nicholaaaas]

For some reason I've always thought a positive test during or shortly after the event was the best way to be caught doping. It seems much more straight forward then analyzing results against known dopers or retesting samples from 5 years earlier.

Apparently you favor changing the testing rules after a positive test on a rider you like. We'll just have to differ on that. Even if they do change the rules, I don't think it should apply to Contador... just future positives. Everyone else prior to Contador had to pay the price for a positive test. We've had baseball players get 50 game suspensions for taking the stuff, swimmers miss the olympics, a couple of cyclists have beens suspended this year, and a judo champion had to return a world championship medal. Even if the rule changes going forward, I fail to see why Contador should get special treatment based on what the rules were when he tested positive.

so you claim I have a bias... then say AC's positive should serve as an example of the flawed methods? get out of here

 

[nicholaaaas]

a positive is a positive is a positive... no shades of gray... 'A' positive, rider given option for 'B' test... 'B' positive, accept the consequences.

Excuses are like axxholes, everyone has one.

Great rider to watch though, while it lasted... impressive.

Hope he turns out legitimately clean, but with the evidence... unlikely.

What a shame.

of course he isn't clean!!! but is this enough to prove it? remember we are talking about fellow human's jobs! if they wanna cheat at their job... let's punish them on something more concrete

 

[HoustonHammer]

to a flawed test. once again there IS an allowable amount of clen in meat. if the test itself is flawed how can you punish him? i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. i dont think it's up to him to prove anything. i think it's up to the labs and the wada to prove that contamination can't result in false positives. maybe their testing methods need another round of peer review

The test is not flawed. Not even AC is denying that his sample contained Clen. How many rounds of peer review are needed for a testing method that works?

Why are you saying that there's an allowable amount of Clen in meat? How can this be the case if dosing livestock with Clen is illegal in the EU?

 

[nicholaaaas]

The test is not flawed. Not even AC is denying that his sample contained Clen. How many rounds of peer review are needed for a testing method that works?

Why are you saying that there's an allowable amount of Clen in meat? How can this be the case if dosing livestock with Clen is illegal in the EU?

because it isn't! because AC has to play the politics. Look I've posted various links in various threads about there being an allowable amount of clen in meat. and if it is remotely true... then the test is inherently flawed


when did I ever claim his sample didn't have clen in it?

and when we are talking about a drug that for all intents and purposes, as it related to cycling, occurs naturally; much more peer review

[note... some/several of the responses are in relation to the post above... but i'm to lazy to change it... figure it out]

 

[TubularBills]

of course he isn't clean!!! but is this enough to prove it? remember we are talking about fellow human's jobs! if they wanna cheat at their job... let's punish them on something more concrete

I see your point... but don't see how A and B positives aren't concrete under the current rules?

If you're saying the rules should be bent because of being contested? How far can or should they be bent? It seems any bend at this point is a break.

Unfortunately for Contador - in context, he takes the penalty under the current rules.

It becomes a case study, and in the future the testing and governing bodies adjust the rules or add a clause, revision or addendum that clarifies and expands legitimate waivers.

Under the current rules, 2 year suspension, possibility for 1 year reduction and forfeit of 2010 Tour victory.

 

[SlowTex]

What's the big deal about a receipt. It's the product bought that matters. Did the carniceria fail to tell the buyer what he bought was horsemeat from Texas or Brazil where Clenbuterol is used on racehorses. By the way, unless AC was eating all the flesh by himself, some of his team mates ought to have tested positive as well.

 

[rolfrae]

By the way, unless AC was eating all the flesh by himself, some of his team mates ought to have tested positive as well.

He was the only one on the team who ate the meat who was tested. Vino was tested but he ate fish that day. This has been known from the start.

 

[El Pistolero]

What's the big deal about a receipt. It's the product bought that matters. Did the carniceria fail to tell the buyer what he bought was horsemeat from Texas or Brazil where Clenbuterol is used on racehorses. By the way, unless AC was eating all the flesh by himself, some of his team mates ought to have tested positive as well.

If only every cyclist got tested every single day. Lol, what a fantasy world you're living in.

 

[scribe]

What's the big deal about a receipt. It's the product bought that matters. Did the carniceria fail to tell the buyer what he bought was horsemeat from Texas or Brazil where Clenbuterol is used on racehorses. By the way, unless AC was eating all the flesh by himself, some of his team mates ought to have tested positive as well.

........they don't call you slowtex for nothing.

 

[hrotha]

The truth about Contador's positive, in Spanish.

 

[OneRaceWonder]

The truth about Contador's positive, in Spanish.

Translation anyone?

 

[thehog]

Translation anyone?

Look at the pictures. Even I see the humor. Should we spell everything out?

 

[OneRaceWonder]

lol...didn't even bother to look at the site...but funny

 

[Animal]

Translation anyone?

You mean you're not using Google Chrome?

That auto-translates forrin pages!

 

[Polyarmour]

So don't suspend Contador, change the rules? I can't see it happening.

i bet it does

After what has happened to Colo are you still willing to take that bet?

While I have sympathy for the view that chemicals in food shouldn't have zero tolerances, WADA are saying that athletes are ultimately responsible for what they eat and drink.

If you want to ensure your meat is clean, make sure you know your supplier, preapprove them, buy organic etc. Certainly never eat meat from a polystyrene cooler that has travelled from Spain in the back of a car.

 

[scribe]

After what has happened to Colo are you still willing to take that bet?

While I have sympathy for the view that chemicals in food shouldn't have zero tolerances, WADA are saying that athletes are ultimately responsible for what they eat and drink.

If you want to ensure your meat is clean, make sure you know your supplier, preapprove them, buy organic etc. Certainly never eat meat from a polystyrene cooler that has travelled from Spain in the back of a car.

Yes. The potential for this positive is well known. A top rider on an experienced top team would obviously avoid this peril.