Subpoenas issued -- Armstrong's goose is cooked

[Cobblestones]

One thing im stunned by, is these allegations are now daily, new developments every day. A google news search on lance is now just miles and miles of doping stories and fresh allegations, subpoenas etc.

How is he getting up every morning and riding his bike in the tour. I just cant fathom how he is doing it. I dont understand how anyone can be so thick skinned and have such an ego to the point where they can get up and look people in the face and ride. Every rider in the peloton must just be looking at him thinking "youre f'ed mate"

I'd be even more interested in what's going on inside the ASO. They must be looking at this and thinking 'why couldn't all that stay hidden a while longer' or 'why did we invite these guys again?' LA is now a liability. There's little to nothing he brings to the actual race. There's of course plenty of attention but I can't imagine it's mostly of the good kind.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be even more interested in what's going on inside the ASO. They must be looking at this and thinking 'why couldn't all that stay hidden a while longer' or 'why did we invite these guys again?' LA is now a liability. There's little to nothing he brings to the actual race. There's of course plenty of attention but I can't imagine it's mostly of the good kind.

will there come a point when they can throw him out because of the press reports surrounding him. How close is he now to the ecquivalent of footballs "bringing the sport into discrepute"

and why the hell are the french so damn quiet at the moment on the whole thing.. not a peep from them, nothing on the syringes last year, not that much coverage on the landis allegations full stop. what is going on. its all very very strange.

but armstrong.. i seriously fear for his mental health. you can only pretend nothing is wrong for so long, and when the mind gives in, it gives in big time and suddenly

 

[BroDeal]

One thing im stunned by, is these allegations are now daily, new developments every day. A google news search on lance is now just miles and miles of doping stories and fresh allegations, subpoenas etc.

How is he getting up every morning and riding his bike in the tour. I just cant fathom how he is doing it. I dont understand how anyone can be so thick skinned and have such an ego to the point where they can get up and look people in the face and ride. Every rider in the peloton must just be looking at him thinking "youre f'ed mate"

to have all this **** going on and still ride the bike and smile at everyone. I actually fear for his health and mentality. I think at some point he is going to break, and when it happens its going to be massive. It wouldnt surprise me any more to wake up the morning and hear on the news that he'd topped himself. You just cant have all this going on and ignore it like he's doing.

Well, one thing is sure. After stages he is not drinking Chickelob Ultra. He is probably using an Everclear drip in place of saline.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Arbiter,

Who is Kirstin Armstrong?

 

[sartain]

Ego aside that admission would cost him alot. Current endorsement receipts are going away probably as we discuss LA's current situation. I can't see typically risk-adverse corporate marketeer's enjoying this ongoing uncertainty. My guess is the number of Michelob Ultra commercials you'll see after the Tour will be...er, few.
Any future "guaranteed" endorsement income will be in jeopardy. Most importantly (and you'll think this is nothing) he'll become a joke in the US. Letterman and Leno will use him for a cheap bit or two and he'll disappear from the Celebrity circuit. Maitre's de all over the world will no longer hold tables for him; unless he buys the restaurant. He won't like it.

Maybe for L&L, but Charlie R. will no doubt have him back on his show and give him another reach-around job while staring at him like he is the second coming of Jesus. I use to have a lot of respect for CR as an interviewer, but all that got flushed down the bowl when he could not see the forest through the trees when it came to LA.

 

[stephens]

One thing im stunned by, is these allegations are now daily, new developments every day.

Really? I've had the opposite impression. Sure, every day there is a new story, but it's the same thing over and over again. Certain information has been subpoenaed, or unnamed sources say unnamed riders actually provided info, and so on. But nothing solid. There's been less "real news" in these stories than there's been on this forum, and that's saying a lot!

 

[chambers]

I don't see why so many people seem to think that a grand jury is such a big deal. Only the prosecutor presents his side. The defense does not get to defend. Even if you have nothing as far as evidence other than one persons say so, you can get a case past the grand jury. Don't forget that in the Duke Lacrosse (fake)rape case the three defendants were all indicted by the grand jury in their case. We know how that turned out.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't see why so many people seem to think that a grand jury is such a big deal. Only the prosecutor presents his side. The defense does not get to defend. Even if you have nothing as far as evidence other than one persons say so, you can get a case past the grand jury. Don't forget that in the Duke Lacrosse (fake)rape case the three defendants were all indicted by the grand jury in their case. We know how that turned out.

So you are comparing the testimony of one crack ho with multiple former teammates and support staff?

 

[chambers]

So you are comparing the testimony of one crack ho with multiple former teammates and support staff?

No, I am saying that any prosecutor can get anyone indicted for anything in front of a grand jury. Only the prosecutor gets to present his side of the case. The defense does not get to say anything.

 

[SpartacusRox]

No, I am saying that any prosecutor can get anyone indicted for anything in front of a grand jury. Only the prosecutor gets to present his side of the case. The defense does not get to say anything.

Sorry but that response wouldn't fit with Race's bias in the matter.

I however take your post at face value without putting any slant on it and I totally agree with you.

By the way Race, since you have no idea what the witnesses evidence will be, the veracity of it or otherwise is a bit hard to comment on is it not?

 

[Race Radio]

No, I am saying that any prosecutor can get anyone indicted for anything in front of a grand jury. Only the prosecutor gets to present his side of the case. The defense does not get to say anything.

I can understand why some fans want to try to reduce the case as much as possible. The fact is the grand jury means the case continues to move forward. No matter how you spin it that is not good for Armstrong.

More riders are talking, more subpoenas are issued, more fanboys are getting scared.

 

[Race Radio]

By the way Race, since you have no idea what the witnesses evidence will be, the veracity of it or otherwise is a bit hard to comment on is it not?

Again you assume incorrectly.

I knew about this investigation far before Armstrong was even the target. I was the first person to write about the WSJ article, the Verburggen emails, the other riders talking. I knew about Floyd's emails months ago. I knew about bikes being sold 7 years ago.

Do not assume that just because you do not know anything about the case that everyone else shares your lack of knowledge. Thankfully that is not the case.

Stay tuned, you may learn a few things.

 

[Benotti69]

LeMond got an early Xmas pressie

 

[Anonymous]

LeMond got an early Xmas pressie

Kathy LeMond's quote, "We are overjoyed. I hope the truth will come out."

Overjoyed at receiving a subpoena. I'm guessing that is different than LA's feeling now.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-testify-in-armstrong-probe

 

[trailrunner]

How is he getting up every morning and riding his bike in the tour. I just cant fathom how he is doing it. I dont understand how anyone can be so thick skinned and have such an ego to the point where they can get up and look people in the face and ride.

to have all this **** going on and still ride the bike and smile at everyone.

I used to think that way too, until a about 12 years ago when a US president looked us in the eye and said "I did not have sex with that woman."

 

[Morgazano]

LeMond got an early Xmas pressie

An even better pressie than "Iron Injections"???

 

[Parrot23]

On Lemond being subpoenaed, the following is the really very interesting part:

"LeMond is also ordered to produce materials related to the Trek Bicycle Corporation, a sponsor of Armstrong's teams that has come under federal scrutiny....

LeMond's subpoena orders him to produce documents related to the Trek litigation. Among them will be a deposition of Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin, in which she was represented by her ex-husband's attorney, Tim Herman, who directed her not to answer a series of questions about Armstrong and doping. Herman sought to have the deposition terminated."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...ed_in_growing_doping_probe.html#ixzz0twUhr8K5

Novitzky, evidently, is no fool. He's getting to the heart of these commercial matters and the relationships of commercial entities/sponsors with Armstrong and his principals (including in ways that prejudice/jeopardize** other people).

**And here can be included encouragement or pressures to dope, including distribution, LOL, of PEDs to Landis--and others maybe. If they get corroboration from other riders of the latter, this is going to be legally devastating.

I'm no lawyer, but that would be "curtains" for the "Lance Armstrong Story" (as the public have known it and, by extension, the sponsors).

 

[Anonymous]

I used to think that way too, until a about 12 years ago when a US president looked us in the eye and said "I did not have sex with that woman."

Yea, I felt the same way when I saw the "Mission Accomplished" banner...

 

[D Avoid]

You mean the case in which it was the the Bush administration DoJ that decided not to pursue charges? That decision to downgrade was made before either Obama or Holder took office. Holder had nothing to do with it.

Stop watching FoxNews, it'll rot your brain.

A brain is not a requirement for Watching PoxNews.

 

[Big Doopie]

i think it is in today's times. juliet macur points out that armstrong says he has not been contacted by novitsky.

very important.

it confirms that he (not just the "other people" who were in supposedly in charge) is a target.

so much for "i was just a rider" defense.

i also think the fanboys have really missed the boat here. they keep thinking that no real hard evidence will ever be found, etc. this is simply not what is happening. first, it is very clear that this investigation has been going on for much longer than just since landis' emails became public. it is novitsky against the armstrong mafia. and novitsky will win. people close to the case seem quite sure that armstrong is going down -- i mean, completely. and the only question/hope is whether the uci will go down with him.

 

[saganftw]

and novitsky will win. people close to the case seem quite sure that armstrong is going down

you spoiled my fun,thx

there s always someone in the world who has it all figured out...i wonder why dont you work with investigators

 

[stephens]

And yet he can't even nail down Bonds! The lab is known, the dealers are known, the trainer is known, many other "clients" of Balco known, but...Novitsky hasn't been able to haul the big fish into the boat.

The even have urine samples from Bonds - which the circuit court ruled are inadmissible because trainer Anderson won't testify. That means they are just hearsay and inadmissible. Surely Armstrong will have as much loyalty from his people as Bonds receives from his, and Armstrong will have an easier time defeating Novitsky. Novitsky has lost a lot of credibility from his actions in the Balco case anyway - false testimony, manufactured evidence, etc.

I still think the authorities need to stick to proving the violation itself and stop this crap about charging people with lying about the violation. An individual should never be required to tell the truth about anything he/she has done. They shouldn't even be able to ask us about what we've done. Either there is enough evidence, or there isn't. Perjury charges are ridiculous.

 

[Benotti69]

And yet he can't even nail down Bonds! The lab is known, the dealers are known, the trainer is known, many other "clients" of Balco known, but...Novitsky hasn't been able to haul the big fish into the boat.

Different case. Different circumstances. Different motivations. This might prove to be bigger than doping. LA has been a bold boy in more ways than shooting up EPO, he's been getting a whole team to do it. selling bikes for dope, his charity might come into the equation, asking doctors to disappear and giving money to make it happen, lying in court, paying money to a federation, disappearing positive tests etc......lots to go on not just urine samples

 

[Animal]

you spoiled my fun,thx

there s always someone in the world who has it all figured out...i wonder why dont you work with investigators

s'funny, the US is such a religious country.

If you say something over and over and hope against hope that it's true, and shore up your illusions against the tide of reality, cover your eyes, stuff your ears, you can MAKE it true.

Come into the cold, real world. It's better for you in the long run.

 

[bobs nob]

Really? I've had the opposite impression. Sure, every day there is a new story, but it's the same thing over and over again. Certain information has been subpoenaed, or unnamed sources say unnamed riders actually provided info, and so on. But nothing solid. There's been less "real news" in these stories than there's been on this forum, and that's saying a lot!

Stephens, I think this was addressed yesterday. It is NOT that there is anything new. There isn't. For US.

But it's the frequency and the place where these articles keep showing up. That's what hurts LA&co. He left the cyclists' world behind long ago and entered the cultural icon world. And the voices of the culture (NYT, Wash Post, WSJ, ESPN and numerous other outlets) are turning up the volume on the suspicion and the circumstantial evidence.

Not Good.