Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Jan the Man]

But lets say Pogi would win Giro and Tour. From that point of view and if there would be anything left in the tank, he indeed could attempt to win Vuelta too. As beating all big rivals at the Tour wouldn't make it harder, to do the same at Vuelta.

But obviously this are hypothetical discussions. As far as the double goes, this season Rogla, Pogi and Jonas will likely attempt it. Lets see if any of them succeeds. Due to the quantity of attempts and quality of riders. I do see a possibility, for it to happen this season. Still, at best, only one could succeed. So lets see if this is the year.

I agree a double is a possibility - Jonas deomstrated that this year. Let’s be in no doubt who would have won the vuelta if it was mano a mano.

A double is likely this year - Vigno is by far the most likely to acheive it - a) because a tour/vuelta double is easier than giro/tour and b) he is overwhelming favourite for the tour. He would be even if Pogi did not have the Giro in his legs, but even more so because pogi will have done the giro

 

[Blanco]

I agree a double is a possibility - Jonas deomstrated that this year. Let’s be in no doubt who would have won the vuelta if it was mano a mano.

A double is likely this year - Vigno is by far the most likely to acheive it - a) because a tour/vuelta double is easier than giro/tour and b) he is overwhelming favourite for the tour. He would be even if Pogi did not have the Giro in his legs, but even more so because pogi will have done the giro

And why we shouldn't be in doubt? Was he a head and shoulders stronger than Roglic, if any? I don't think so...

 

[CyclistAbi]

Two takes getting exponentially hotter:
-a small part of why Pogačar took the Giro turn this season is to allow Roglič a proper payback opportunity against the Vees with him being a bit more in the background and not causing another inter-Slovenian split... because if he succeeds making history like that, no one can hold it against him (as they shouldn't in 2020 either, but some did).
-Jonas will not win the Tour in the next 5 years. (Probably Roglič takes it this year and Pogačar returns for a proper clash in 2025, and things go on from there with maybe also current great young talents getting involved)

The deal is likely not that extreme but Rogla and Pogi will likely indeed cooperate, to try to crack Jonas. And on Olympics and especially Worlds. The aim should be for Slovenia to win. So both should push the other one ahead. Or Moho. Then all do have a chance. In years to come.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I agree a double is a possibility - Jonas deomstrated that this year. Let’s be in no doubt who would have won the vuelta if it was mano a mano.

A double is likely this year - Vigno is by far the most likely to acheive it - a) because a tour/vuelta double is easier than giro/tour and b) he is overwhelming favourite for the tour. He would be even if Pogi did not have the Giro in his legs, but even more so because pogi will have done the giro

Indeed it could be Jonas, to win it first. Rogla and Pogi for sure can be the ones too. Pogi still has to test himself, on how a double will affect hims. Jonas now knows and he was close last season. Rogla was close in the past n seasons. So the time is right and the interesting thing is only one can achieve that, per season. And as (modern cycling) history teaches, per decade or two.

So lets not get ahead of ourself, on how this is certain to happen anytime soon, we can only hope.

 

[hayneplane]

This is all so true. Bernal looked like winning 4+ TDFs as did Pogacar who still might, then Vingegaard looks as strong as any of the multiple champs but we see the sands of time shift so quickly without it appearing obvious until after it happens.

With scouting and data tracking picking up riders younger and younger straight to the world tour top 5 teams at 18 the chances of a total surprise developer is much reduced but always still the chance of an outlier such as a classics guy dropping the weight but holding his power and becoming a 3 week GC super talent.

Ayuso at the Tour this year will be very instructive if he has a smooth buildup as we should find out whether he has many more levels in him or if he is an early maturer who is close to his peak at 21.

 

[Berniece]

Ayuso at the Tour this year will be very instructive if he has a smooth buildup as we should find out whether he has many more levels in him or if he is an early maturer who is close to his peak at 21.

Felt that after the last Vuelta he might be an early peaker

 

[sevenall]

I'm glad Contador (who I like) has such a high opinion of another rider I like. And clearly he has forgotten more about cycling than I will ever know.

However. Even as a staunch Pogačar fan, as someone super excited that he is doing the Giro and the Tour (though I could care less about the Tour) I must admit: I haven't really seen any indication that he could be at his best in two GTs with only a month in between to recover.

I'm not saying he can't! I would like nothing better than to be wrong and eat my words come July. But even winning the Giro is not a given.

As usual, the road will tell.

 

[rokovski]

Pog maybe going to win Giro in Rog style, with boni seconds? He is second best uphill sprinter.

 

[kn0s]

Pog maybe going to win Giro in Rog style, with boni seconds? He is second best uphill sprinter.

I really don't hope that will be the case.

 

[Peyroteo94]

People who thought Bernal was going to win +4 Tours are crazy. One could tell it was the weakest Tour since 2008.

 

[tobydawq]

People who thought Bernal was going to win +4 Tours are crazy. One could tell it was the weakest Tour since 2008.

He was also 22.

This is an incredible Captain Hindsight comment.

 

[Salvarani]

People who thought Bernal was going to win +4 Tours are crazy. One could tell it was the weakest Tour since 2008.

What are next week lottery numbers?

 

[hayneplane]

People who thought Bernal was going to win +4 Tours are crazy. One could tell it was the weakest Tour since 2008.

Yes maybe it wasn’t the best tour given how long Alaphillipe was up there but we didn’t know Pogacar was going to be this good so soon and nobody had envisioned Vingegaard being an all timer at that point.

Thinking he could win many tours wasn’t that wild a take.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes maybe it wasn’t the best tour given how long Alaphillipe was up there but we didn’t know Pogacar was going to be this good so soon and nobody had envisioned Vingegaard being an all timer at that point.

Thinking he could win many tours wasn’t that wild a take.

It was a very wild take solely based on that no pure climber had ever won more than 1 TdF before and every multi Tour winner had been a great ITTer as well. In addition, he wasn't even the undisputed best climber that Tour or that season, and he was getting dropped through the first 2 weeks of that Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

It was a very wild take solely based on that no pure climber had ever won more than 1 TdF before and every multi Tour winner had been a great ITTer as well. In addition, he wasn't even the undisputed best climber that Tour or that season, and he was getting dropped through the first 2 weeks of that Tour.

Bernal was good/decent against the clock though, at least before his injury. Calling him a pure climber is a wild take. He was more versatile than that.

It was on his TT-bike he also injured himself, I believe.

 

[Cookster15]

People who thought Bernal was going to win +4 Tours are crazy. One could tell it was the weakest Tour since 2008.

Yeh, Kruijswijk came 3rd at 1'31" but the runner up was also the defending champion. So it can't have been that weak.

With the subsequent rise of Vingegaard and Pogacar its easy to lose perspective. In 2019 Bernal was the youngest winner since 1909. And his rise from neopro to TdF winner took place as quickly as Pogacar the year after. And Bernal's ride on Col de l'Iseran on the shortened stage was out of this world. So the expectations were understandable.

 

[scribers]

People who thought Bernal was going to win +4 Tours are crazy. One could tell it was the weakest Tour since 2008.

I would have not bet on Bernal winning only 1x

 

[Salvarani]

Yeh, Kruijswijk came 3rd at 1'31" but the runner up was also the defending champion. So it can't have been that weak.

With the subsequent rise of Vingegaard and Pogacar its easy to lose perspective. In 2019 Bernal was the youngest winner since 1909. And his rise from neopro to TdF winner took place as quickly as Pogacar the year after. And Bernal's ride on Col de l'Iseran on the shortened stage was out of this world. So the expectations were understandable.

I think people also just thought he was the next Sky/Ineos rider to dominate. It had almost been a decade with no stop in sight.

 

[Cookster15]

It was a very wild take solely based on that no pure climber had ever won more than 1 TdF before and every multi Tour winner had been a great ITTer as well. In addition, he wasn't even the undisputed best climber that Tour or that season, and he was getting dropped through the first 2 weeks of that Tour.

I don't think Bernal was a weak TT. He also lost very little time in the Pyrenees. Obviously he was peaking for the 3rd week when he was indisputably the best climber. Only 22 and youngest winner since 1909, the hype then was understandable and justified.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think Bernal was a weak TT. He also lost very little time in the Pyrenees. Obviously he was peaking for the 3rd week when he was indisputably the best climber. Only 22 and youngest winner since 1909, the hype then was understandable and justified.

If you need to time your peak so specifically you get dropped for 2 weeks and are completely at the mercy of your rivals aggression level, then you're not indisputably the best climber.

Like his one best performance in that Tour was putting like a minute into Kruijswijk who was letting his own domestique set the pace. Day after he got dropped again on Val Thorens by the way.

He was lucky Froome had his crash. He was lucky Thomas bottled his peak as hard as he did. He was lucky Jumbo prioritized Groenewegen over Roglic that year. And he was lucky with the Pinot freak injury. And he still won by barely 1'30 over Steven Kruijswijk.

There were like 5 reasons to question he would win the Tour 5 times, and the only reason to think he would do it was that he was super young.

 

[Extinction]

If you need to time your peak so specifically you get dropped for 2 weeks and are completely at the mercy of your rivals aggression level, then you're not indisputably the best climber.

Like his one best performance in that Tour was putting like a minute into Kruijswijk who was letting his own domestique set the pace. Day after he got dropped again on Val Thorens by the way.

He was lucky Froome had his crash. He was lucky Thomas bottled his peak as hard as he did. He was lucky Jumbo prioritized Groenewegen over Roglic that year. And he was lucky with the Pinot freak injury. And he still won by barely 1'30 over Steven Kruijswijk.

There were like 5 reasons to question he would win the Tour 5 times, and the only reason to think he would do it was that he was super young.

The only reason to not have thought Bernal would have been a multi-Tour winner, would have been to have a crystal ball and foresee Pogacar and then Vingegaard. Period.

 

[Netserk]

Bernal was good/decent against the clock though, at least before his injury. Calling him a pure climber is a wild take. He was more versatile than that.

It was on his TT-bike he also injured himself, I believe.

He was a worse TTer than Sastre. Call that whatever you want.

 

[Salvarani]

He was a worse TTer than Sastre. Call that whatever you want.

Meaningless.

 

[Froome]

Bernal was also lucky with Tignes stage having been cut.

I never saw talent in bernal to win 4 or 5 Tours de France.

 

[BigCoward]

Anybody who was that good at that age back then, absolutely has to be expected to win multiple tours.