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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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And then there is this article:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/racing/a-defeated-peloton-reacts-to-tadej-pogacars-latest-exhibition-no-one-can-compete-with-him-i-have-never-seen-anything-like-this

Looks like folks are feeling a bit down ;) Some fun quotes:

“Before I always used to ride races to win, but now to be perfectly honest I don’t see how it could be possible when you are racing against a rider like that.”

“So far in this race, if he wanted to, he could have had a chance to win in every stage. That’s pretty scary, but what can you do if someone is in their own league? He is one extra zone above us.”

“But the way they ride is that they want to win everything. I can understand that it can be a bit boring for the spectators, but we try everything to win as well. It’s just they don’t let us win anything.” (in reference to Toddy and Jo Jo)
You missed the best part. Guillaume Martin: "Something happened in the last two years and the gap has increased further."
 
Damn right. He had no No wins in 2017, no wins in 2018 before first visit to the UAE team laboratory.
After the visit, we can see the results: like win in Tour de l'Avenir. But he didn't win any stage. He had no kick. He never had been on podium of Junior World Championship, not RR, even less in ITT.

Here I have all his ITT results, you can see he is the specialist for Tour de France time trials. Which doesn't make any sense. https://file.si/6Lbl/pogacar-itt-rezultati.xlsx

We can see, he had talent in longer week long races and uphills, but he had no kick, he was not good in sprints, below average in time trials. But in the last few years he is superior in mountains, time trials, in monuments.

I wonder if the trolls would look at Pogacar differently if he at the age of 18 was beating up 17 year olds like Remco, instead of competing against men.

I also wonder if the trolls really believe that winning a 90-kilometre junior race is worth more than, say, fifth place in the Tour of Slovenia and only older guys beat you from WT teams like Majka, Visconti, Haig...

It also makes you wonder why the trolls are so angry because he couldn't win a stage against two years older guys like Mader, Vlasov, Dunbar... even though he beat them easily in GC.

and when did he have a bad ITT? Except for the 2023 World Championship when he was dead for obvious reasons.

itt.jpg
 
I'm struck by something I guess few others are struck by and might even laugh at, but I'm starting to wonder how neurodiversity factors in with doping. Because it's not unusual to have different responses to drugs, unusual metabolism etc if the neurology is different to start with. And I'd nearly call all current top riders (barred Van Aert) neurodiverse. And not on the psychopathic/narcissistic (Armstrong) end but much closer to the extreme opposite. These guys are weirdos, nerds, they ain't normal kids.

Maybe this was always the fact for cycling, but it will also factor in with drug responses, sudden increases in abilities etc. Jonas is a good example where extreme structure also likely is part of the explanation to why he showed extreme improvement after joining Rabo. Not saying that means he's clean. Far from it. But these things factor in way more than for the average dudes.

I'm just struck by it. The more I look for narcissism the more autist-ish guys I find 🤣

(And I hope I won't have to explain how neurology and getting a diagnosis ain't the same thing and I'm talking about the neurology here, not trying to diagnose them or those similar to them.)

The way cycling has changed into a sport where everything can be measured and optimized through data also favours nerds in itself.
 
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Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do everything, better than you ...

I can climb

I can time trial

I can sprint

I can tolerate cold rain

I supposedly can now tolerate heat

Long distance, or short distance, neither are a problem for me

Stage races or classics, all works for me

Peaking? Who needs to peak when you can ride everyone off your wheel all year long

I also need to make sure I'm extra nice, so that way I can beat the fisherman in the charisma game
It really is insane. Not even the best at stage races. Or climbs. Or flat one days. Guy is the best at EVERY race. Ugh.
 
And then there is this article:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/racing/a-defeated-peloton-reacts-to-tadej-pogacars-latest-exhibition-no-one-can-compete-with-him-i-have-never-seen-anything-like-this

Looks like folks are feeling a bit down ;) Some fun quotes:

“Before I always used to ride races to win, but now to be perfectly honest I don’t see how it could be possible when you are racing against a rider like that.”

“So far in this race, if he wanted to, he could have had a chance to win in every stage. That’s pretty scary, but what can you do if someone is in their own league? He is one extra zone above us.”

“But the way they ride is that they want to win everything. I can understand that it can be a bit boring for the spectators, but we try everything to win as well. It’s just they don’t let us win anything.” (in reference to Toddy and Jo Jo)
looking at some of those quotes we now know some of the peloton are posters here.
 
He already had a pre contract with UAE at that point. They just juiced him up early in his career so they could go 'look, he was always a huge talent'. Once up on a time he lost ITTs to Anthon Charmig and Jonas Gregaard.

I remember Kron saying in a podcast he used to beat Pogacar on the hills, but suddently Pogacar took a huge leap in level and began to destroy the youth ranks.
You make alot of leaps in your prejudicial analysis. While we know most Americans of a certain team and era all partook of party aids as juniors; Tadej had to be good enough to command attention coming from backwater Slovenia.
That said, the proliferation of former Eastern bloc athletes flooding the pro ranks in tennis, basketball, football, mma and cycling suggest either excellent grassroots coaching or superior pharmacological research. Following drug money out of the Mediterranean it does seem to follow a pattern that way.
 
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Two things...

1) Why does the UCI want races turned into a complete farce by ignoring obvious doping? Pogacar deters me from watching. If it's a mountain stage and he's in it, I check the results ahead of time. 99 times out of 100 (unless Vingegaard is in it), Pogacar wins by destroying the peloton, and I don't bother to watch the race. How is that beneficial to cycling? If there is some doubt who might win, it's much more compelling.

2) Although Pogacar isn't an in-your-face a-hole like Armstrong was, I find him a carbon copy of Lance in that he has a massive ego, and has to destroy everyone every race, no matter what. He was already way ahead on time in Catalunya after his first stage win. He could have easily ridden in the wheels on the next stage, then attacked in the last 100m to win it easily. But he's not content with that, he has to attack again from way far out, to prove again that he's stronger than the entire peloton put together. You'd think he'd want to play it cool to discourage talk of him doping, but he behaves exactly the opposite. It's bizarre behavior.
It is possibly more psycho to win from 80 km out while smiling and being Mr. Nice!

At least Lance was an unlikable villain.
 
the 81 km ride in Strade was huge ok. but not that outrageous. Visma was below par and the others never worked well together
Exactly, apart from Van Gils, they immediately started racing for second place instead of chasing. Pidcock can say all the WTF he wants, but when Pog attacked he was not even in the picture. The gap was already more than 2 minutes when some kind of chase was organised, Wellens and del Torro did a good job blocking it. Shortly afterwards the pace slowed down and became very uneven. Valter performed about 10 yo-yo's in this period...
 
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You make alot of leaps in your prejudicial analysis. While we know most Americans of a certain team and era all partook of party aids as juniors; Tadej had to be good enough to command attention coming from backwater Slovenia.
That said, the proliferation of former Eastern bloc athletes flooding the pro ranks in tennis, basketball, football, mma and cycling suggest either excellent grassroots coaching or superior pharmacological research. Following drug money out of the Mediterranean it does seem to follow a pattern that way.
What the flying f**k are you talking about? With one hand you claim others for prejudices and yet you have these wild claims based on absolutely BS.
 
What the flying f**k are you talking about? With one hand you claim others for prejudices and yet you have these wild claims based on absolutely BS.
The gentleman claimed : "He already had a pre contract with UAE at that point. They just juiced him up early in his career so they could go 'look, he was always a huge talent'. Once up on a time he lost ITTs to Anthon Charmig and Jonas Gregaard."
No proof including ignoring his actual younger results. That's fairly prejudicial.

My references to Eastern Bloc athletes were meant to be an ironic prejudicial comparison. I've heard American NBA fans muse that Nikola Jovic' must be doped. The guy's game is complete skill and subtlety that comes from practice and natural ability. There's nothing he could have taken to get taller.
Janica Kostelic and Petra Vhlova also come to mind as greats that had natural talent.
 
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He was my idol mate. He really put cycling in the map.
The real problem with Armstrong wasn't the fact he was a doper, but the fact he was a bully.

What he did to the massagist female O'Reilly, was absolutely disgusting, making his life an hell, even called her a prostitute.

Everybody was a doper, indurain, pantani, riis, even the guys from 80s, and doping is part of every sport, not just cycling.

Like i said, my main problem with him, was how he was as a human being.
 
It is possibly more psycho to win from 80 km out while smiling and being Mr. Nice!

At least Lance was an unlikable villain.
Imagine Pog actually really thinks it is like a game, something fun, something to experiment with and see how far he can go? That would be one kind of motivation; playing it like a game that's fun in and off itself?

The other kind of motivation is the one that gives secondary gains; like fame, money, groupies, popularity etc?

Which description fits Armstrong and which description fits Pog? Are they the same or different? (And the other top riders? Remco, MvdP, Van Aert, Rogla, Jonas etc?)

Which of these motivations are most likely to make the best cyclist?

Another factor I see; of Armstrong vs Pog One seemingly lacks the cognitive empathy, while the other seemingly lacks the emotional empathy. Who is who?

These are all of course simplified to the extreme, no one is going to be all into cycling for itself nor is anyone going to be into cycling without liking cycling. But what will be the biggest fuel to their fire? That's what I'm after.

(And why does smiling when obliterating the peleton comes off as more creepy? Because I'd say too; it does 🤣)
 
Indurain used to smile while obliterating the peloton. Nobody thought he was creepy.

Armstrong is a completely different personality.
The real problem with Armstrong wasn't the fact he was a doper, but the fact he was a bully.

What he did to the massagist female O'Reilly, was absolutely disgusting, making his life an hell, even called her a prostitute.

Everybody was a doper, indurain, pantani, riis, even the guys from 80s, and doping is part of every sport, not just cycling.

Like i said, my main problem with him, was how he was as a human being.
Lance was a perfectionist. Even with doping. Agree about his personality.

On the 80s, sure they were doping but oxygen vector doping changed everything. First EPO, then transfusions, then EPO microdosing.
 
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Indurain used to smile while obliterating the peloton. Nobody thought he was creepy.

Armstrong is a completely different personality.

Lance was a perfectionist. Even with doping. Agree about his personality.

On the 80s, sure they were doping but oxygen vector doping changed everything. First EPO, then transfusions, then EPO microdosing.
I think transfusions came before EPO, then there were EPO infused transfusions! Then when the EPO tests came out, transfusions again, then micro-dosing EPO and transfusions.

It's the frickin dopers circle of life