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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

Page 143 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Now compare these results to his pre-UAE time trials.
You seem to come to this thread every few months and literally try to start the same argument over and over again. Already the fourth comment in this thread from 2020 tried to explain this to your banned/deleted account.

I think it's a bit harsh calling his 2017-18 as hit and miss. He won the biggest junior race in the world, while riding for a very small team. Of course his TTing and general level is going to take a big step up when he leaves a CT to join a World Tour team with much better coaching, facilities and equipment.

The pre-UAE ITT sample size is quite low. It's often difficult to determine what might have happened in some races without more detailed coverage, which is rare in junior races.

Btw, in the junior races, the ITT is usually held on a day when there are two stages in one day. For example, his worst ITT result was in the Juniors Peace Race in Czehia, but he won the other stage later that day. Perhaps he took the ITT easy and saved his energy for the second stage. There was a race in Switzerland where he was last on the stage, more than 20 minutes behind, maybe he was involved in a crash. I don't know, but doing ITT afterwards was certainly not ideal..

So my view is that just checking ITT results from junior races on the PCS and drawing conclusions from them is completely pointless.
 
Doping in 2040? Booze and amphetamines, but we will get the sub 35 minute AdH
Cocaine and booze didn't work well enough?

FWIW, coke is still the drug of choice of some athletes :p

Some of the workout supplements they sell in the body building stores would work as a finishing bottle by "creating your own stimulant stack" (OMG that is some funny sh*t).

But really, just get a doc to indicate you have exercise induced asthma and also that you have ADHD. A few prescriptions later, and perhaps some caffeine pills jammed into something else and ... you too can have sudden heart failure
 
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You seem to come to this thread every few months and literally try to start the same argument over and over again. Already the fourth comment in this thread from 2020 tried to explain this to your banned/deleted account.



The pre-UAE ITT sample size is quite low. It's often difficult to determine what might have happened in some races without more detailed coverage, which is rare in junior races.

Btw, in the junior races, the ITT is usually held on a day when there are two stages in one day. For example, his worst ITT result was in the Juniors Peace Race in Czehia, but he won the other stage later that day. Perhaps he took the ITT easy and saved his energy for the second stage. There was a race in Switzerland where he was last on the stage, more than 20 minutes behind, maybe he was involved in a crash. I don't know, but doing ITT afterwards was certainly not ideal..

So my view is that just checking ITT results from junior races on the PCS and drawing conclusions from them is completely pointless.
I have a life outside of this forum. You should try it too. I do feel honored that you're going through my comments. Maybe you'll learn something.

Your 'view' is wrong. Ten races in four seasons is not a small sample size. This isn't only about junior races, but also his first two U23 years. Most ITT specialists were great at it as juniors or U23. Evenepoel, Cancellara or Tarling. Even McNulty or Bjerg showed this consistency if you want to compare with other UAE riders. Only the Slovenian 'phenomenon' had to wait until he joined Gianetti's team. So the question remains: what changed?
 
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I have a life outside of this forum. You should try it too. I do feel honored that you're going through my comments. Maybe you'll learn something.

Your 'view' is wrong. Ten races in four seasons is not a small sample size. This isn't only about junior races, but also his first two U23 years. Most ITT specialists were great at it as juniors or U23. Evenepoel, Cancellara or Tarling. Even McNulty or Bjerg showed this consistency if you want to compare with other UAE riders. Only the Slovenian 'phenomenon' had to wait until he joined Gianetti's team. So the question remains: what changed?

All I did was look at the first page of this thread where I saw that you started this thread with your banned account 4 years ago with literally the same argument you are shouting now. So it seems that your vendetta against Pogacar is a pretty high priority in your life, despite your claim to have a rich life outside the forum.

And what are you talking about? Pogacar is not an ITT specialist. He has won only 2 ITTs in his life outside the Slovenian championships. Both were in GT, where GC guys tend to do better for obvious reasons. One was mountain ITT, where his biggest rival massively underperformed and finished only 5th. The other win was a flat ITT, against more or less second tier opponents, where the biggest favourite underperformed and finished only 4th.
 
All I did was look at the first page of this thread where I saw that you started this thread with your banned account 4 years ago with literally the same argument you are shouting now. So it seems that your vendetta against Pogacar is a pretty high priority in your life, despite your claim to have a rich life outside the forum.

And what are you talking about? Pogacar is not an ITT specialist. He has won only 2 ITTs in his life outside the Slovenian championships. Both were in GT, where GC guys tend to do better for obvious reasons. One was mountain ITT, where his biggest rival massively underperformed and finished only 5th. The other win was a flat ITT, against more or less second tier opponents, where the biggest favourite underperformed and finished only 4th.
Hold on a moment, one can rail against a specific rider or more and not have a vendetta or hold that person in high priority. To use myself as an example, I know over the years I have demonstrated some annoyance or even anger with certain riders, but I definitely did not have a vendetta nor did I think about them that much.

And while I agree with your comment that Toddy is not a TT specialist, let's also not be too revisionistic about the 2020 tour final TT; Pogo absolutely smoked everyone, by a lot. Meanwhile Rogo underperformed a bit, but if he were around 35-40 seconds faster, he places second but still loses the tour.
 
All I did was look at the first page of this thread where I saw that you started this thread with your banned account 4 years ago with literally the same argument you are shouting now. So it seems that your vendetta against Pogacar is a pretty high priority in your life, despite your claim to have a rich life outside the forum.

And what are you talking about? Pogacar is not an ITT specialist. He has won only 2 ITTs in his life outside the Slovenian championships. Both were in GT, where GC guys tend to do better for obvious reasons. One was mountain ITT, where his biggest rival massively underperformed and finished only 5th. The other win was a flat ITT, against more or less second tier opponents, where the biggest favourite underperformed and finished only 4th.
Yep. Not a ITT specialist, but he beat the entire TJV team in the TdF 2020 and in the first ITT in the TdF of 2021 he beat most of the elite including Vingegaard, Van Aert, Küng and Roglic. Second tier, right?
You're trolling, aren't you? Nobody can be this stupid.
 
Hold on a moment, one can rail against a specific rider or more and not have a vendetta or hold that person in high priority. To use myself as an example, I know over the years I have demonstrated some annoyance or even anger with certain riders, but I definitely did not have a vendetta nor did I think about them that much.

And while I agree with your comment that Toddy is not a TT specialist, let's also not be too revisionistic about the 2020 tour final TT; Pogo absolutely smoked everyone, by a lot. Meanwhile Rogo underperformed a bit, but if he were around 35-40 seconds faster, he places second but still loses the tour.
I mostly despise Gianetti. He's the dirtiest rider and sports director in history. That's why I put him in the title. Unfortunately, it's too difficult for Slavic Noob to understand.
 
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Yep. Not a ITT specialist, but he beat the entire TJV team in the TdF 2020 and in the first ITT in the TdF of 2021 he beat most of the elite including Vingegaard, Van Aert, Küng and Roglic. Second tier, right?
You're trolling, aren't you? Nobody can be this stupid.
I think he is trying to say that Pogacar is specialist TT in Grand Tours.

In other races like ITT Worlds he is not so good.
 
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And while I agree with your comment that Toddy is not a TT specialist, let's also not be too revisionistic about the 2020 tour final TT; Pogo absolutely smoked everyone, by a lot. Meanwhile Rogo underperformed a bit, but if he were around 35-40 seconds faster, he places second but still loses the tour.
Roglic underperformed not just a bit, but massively. Look at the names of the people who had a better time going up the climb than him. Roglic should have finished at least second there, not 11th, and then he would have had at least a minute faster ITT.

ITT.jpg


Yep. Not a ITT specialist, but he beat the entire TJV team in the TdF 2020 and in the first ITT in the TdF of 2021 he beat most of the elite including Vingegaard, Van Aert, Küng and Roglic. Second tier, right?
You're trolling, aren't you? Nobody can be this stupid.

In 2020, Pogacar was actually behind Dumoulin on the flat. He beat him on the climb, which was not unexpected. It was surprising at the time that WvA finished that high in a mountain ITT and Roglic massively underperformed.

Did you watch the race in 2021? Roglic crashed on the third stage, later abandoned the race. As I wrote in a previous comment, WvA massively underperformed. He only beat MvdP by a second when many expected him to take the yellow jersey. Did you really consider Vingegaard an elite ITT specialist in 2021? Küng hardly elite category

I think it is time to ignore your comments, as you keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Replying to you is a waste of time. So bye
 
Roglic underperformed not just a bit, but massively. Look at the names of the people who had a better time going up the climb than him. Roglic should have finished at least second there, not 11th, and then he would have had at least a minute faster ITT.

ITT.jpg




In 2020, Pogacar was actually behind Dumoulin on the flat. He beat him on the climb, which was not unexpected. It was surprising at the time that WvA finished that high in a mountain ITT and Roglic massively underperformed.

Did you watch the race in 2021? Roglic crashed on the third stage, later abandoned the race. As I wrote in a previous comment, WvA massively underperformed. He only beat MvdP by a second when many expected him to take the yellow jersey. Did you really consider Vingegaard an elite ITT specialist in 2021? Küng hardly elite category

I think it is time to ignore your comments, as you keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Replying to you is a waste of time. So bye
Yes, Rogo was not at his normal level, although he also appeared to blow during the climb. It has been stated he underperformed. I think it is a misnomer to blame it on Rogo's having a terrible TT; he did not have an awesome TT (exacerbated by a crappy bike change), but it was much more than that. I believe Toggy was about on-par with Dumo and other TT experts on the flat run in. He absolutely flew along the whole TT and smoked everyone. It was not a pure case of Rogo sucking. Toggo Poggo also demolished everyone and Rogo could have been second and still lost the Tour, such was the spanking.

My comparison here is less with Rogo per se as it is that Taddy layethed the smackdown on everyone that day. He embarrassed the whole field.
 
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Yes, Rogo was not at his normal level, although he also appeared to blow during the climb. It has been stated he underperformed. I think it is a misnomer to blame it on Rogo's having a terrible TT; he did not have an awesome TT (exacerbated by a crappy bike change), but it was much more than that. I believe Toggy was about on-par with Dumo and other TT experts on the flat run in. He absolutely flew along the whole TT and smoked everyone. It was not a pure case of Rogo sucking. Toggo Poggo also demolished everyone and Rogo could have been second and still lost the Tour, such was the spanking.

My comparison here is less with Rogo per se as it is that Taddy layethed the smackdown on everyone that day. He embarrassed the whole field.
The gap between first and second is still the result of one guy doing what was expected of him, while the other failed spectacularly. As is often the case with Roglic, crashes and stuff, he is mentally fragile.

Dumoulin may have felt he had a good ITT on that day, but to start a stage like this without any pressure to win or any great motivation is not like having the yellow jersey in front of your eyes. Even Richie Porte who fought for the podium, almost 36, clocked the same time as him. And if you consider that he finished 10th in the ITT World Championships a week later, it's safe to say that he's been in much better ITT form in his life than he was on that stage.

I'm not saying there's no 'clinic' stuff here, but a lot of people over-mystify that ITT just because one guy did what was expected but the other failed.
 
The gap between first and second is still the result of one guy doing what was expected of him, while the other failed spectacularly. As is often the case with Roglic, crashes and stuff, he is mentally fragile.

Dumoulin may have felt he had a good ITT on that day, but to start a stage like this without any pressure to win or any great motivation is not like having the yellow jersey in front of your eyes. Even Richie Porte who fought for the podium, almost 36, clocked the same time as him. And if you consider that he finished 10th in the ITT World Championships a week later, it's safe to say that he's been in much better ITT form in his life than he was on that stage.

I'm not saying there's no 'clinic' stuff here, but a lot of people over-mystify that ITT just because one guy did what was expected but the other failed.
Dumo was ahead of Wout, and Wout was second at World's, so I would not read to much into that either. As I have noted, Rogo aside, Poggy did not do what was "expected", he smoked everyone by a fair margin. It was a massive leap from where he was and was unexpected; that is as much evident today as it was when it happened.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Not sure if you are defending the absurdness of Poggo?
 
It might feel that way in hindsight, but no one expected it back then.

So what did people expect? Pog had beaten Roglic in the hilly Slovenian ITT championship a few months earlier.

Dumo was ahead of Wout, and Wout was second at World's, so I would not read to much into that either. As I have noted, Rogo aside, Poggy did not do what was "expected", he smoked everyone by a fair margin. It was a massive leap from where he was and was unexpected; that is as much evident today as it was when it happened.

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Not sure if you are defending the absurdness of Poggo?

WvA paced that ITT quite badly, he lost massive time in the first 14 kilometres. Dumo did massive domestique work almost every day. Roglic choked. MAL did MAL things, maybe he killed his legs on the Col de la Loze. Apart from the early starter Cavagna, who else cared about this ITT?

Beating the almost 36-year-old Porte by 81 seconds is absurd?
 
So what did people expect? Pog had beaten Roglic in the hilly Slovenian ITT championship a few months earlier.



WvA paced that ITT quite badly, he lost massive time in the first 14 kilometres. Dumo did massive domestique work almost every day. Roglic choked. MAL did MAL things, maybe he killed his legs on the Col de la Loze. Apart from the early starter Cavagna, who else cared about this ITT?

Beating the almost 36-year-old Porte by 81 seconds is absurd?
OK, so you are defending absurdity then, that's fine.
 
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OK, so you are defending absurdity then, that's fine.
I just don't see the absurdity.

1:21 gap seems like a lot, but if you look at the context there's an explanation for it, which I've already explained.

Roglic finished fifth, which on paper is a good result, but it's not F1 as they don't give points, in cycling it's the time that counts. He beat Caruso by barely 30 seconds, much less than a minute against the likes of Mas and Uran. Do you really think this is Roglic's level?

These are Roglic's standards:

Normally he would have been very close to Pog (either ahead or behind him) on that ITT. He just choked that day, but very badly.
 
So what did people expect? Pog had beaten Roglic in the hilly Slovenian ITT championship a few months earlier.
Yes, but they were close, and Roglic had looked stronger in the third week. People expected Roglic to win the TT, or at the very least, not lose a minute to Pogacar and lose the race.

Roglic was the bookmakers favorite for the stage. Pogacar only 4th

The result was a huge shock at the time.
 
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Yes, but they were close, and Roglic had looked stronger in the third week. People expected Roglic to win the TT, or at the very least, not lose a minute to Pogacar and lose the race.

Roglic was the bookmakers favorite for the stage. Pogacar only 4th

The result was a huge shock at the time.
Of course Rog was the big favourite of the bookies. A lot of people were expecting him to win the stage. This also shows how badly he did in the ITT. He only finished fifth. No one thought he would lose the yellow jersey, no one thought he would underperform so badly.
 
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I don't think by a lot, maybe a little. If Roglic brings his ITT standard he won't lose the yellow jersey.
Ok, so you are firmly in the camp that Poggo did not have an amazing nuclear time trial that day. I'm not going to change your mind about that, but I've had plenty of time to rethink this and I still believe he had a crazy breakout performance, announcing himself as a mutant.

Anywho. It was an intense tour. Everyone but Pogaman was exhausted, while he blew everyone out of the water. Rogo looks to have made the mistake of trying to hold Tog's pace and blew on the climb. But the Rogster would have had to put out his own alien performance to a stay close enough to Toggocop to win the GC.

Random hot/not takes ...

Pogs had a pretty crap aero position in the tour. But had reportedly been focusing on that TT for many, many months. Interesting.

Pogs was getting stronger the whole tour, while everyone else was apparently getting fatigued. That's interesting (and not the slightest bit weird!). Not sure why he didn't race the WC TT afterwards. He likely would have smoked it as well :p

Oh well, nothing to see at the 2020 Tour people. Pogs was totes believable. Which I guess means JoJo is as well
 
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Of course Pog was getting stronger during the Tour, I guess that's why he was dropped on the Col de la Loze.

Get real, man. That ITT course was perfect for Roglic. He beats the likes of Mas or Uran by 2-3 minutes, not 45 seconds. Or do you want to say that Mas aslo did an alien performance to stay that close to Rog?
 
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Of course Pog was getting stronger during the Tour, I guess that's why he was dropped on the Col de la Loze.

Get real, man. That ITT course was perfect for Roglic. He beats the likes of Mas or Uran by 2-3 minutes, not 45 seconds. Or do you want to say that Mas aslo did an alien performance to stay that close to Rog?
I'm saying PogoPo is alien. You disagree. That's cool