Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[samhocking]

Roglic and Jumbo simply were a bit too caught up in their own self-confidence. Roglics attitude to his equipment before it saying "I don't give a ***, everything is good", the bike change, the visor, the equipment and gearing choice compared to Pogcar is blatantly obvious with hindsight.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This quote by Dumoulin, during TDF (in a TJV documentary) is rather hilarious:

"Ik word tweede achter een renner die als een mijnwerker op zijn fiets zit. Dat snap ik gewoon niet", zegt hij in de ploegauto. "Ik heb geen idee hoe ik anderhalve minuut sneller had kunnen rijden. "
--
"I'm second behind a rider who's positioned on his bike like a mine-worker. I just don't get it. I have no idea how i could have gone a minute and a half faster."

 

[Salvarani]

I fear some of Pantani's climbing records will be genuinely threatened soon, and not just by Pogačar. Can't wait for the explanations for it.

Because Pantanis records is supposed to last forever?

 

[42x16ss]

Because Pantanis records is supposed to last forever?

He was so much of an outlier (for a number of reasons, one of course being massive EPO use) nobody has come close to most of his times since. The last person to ride Alpe d'huez in less than 40 minutes was Carlos Sastre in 2008, while Pantani did it in 36'40". Armstrong needed an ITT just to break 38 mins FFS. I was a big fan of Sastre, but nobody going faster than him since, even with improvements in materials and frame design speaks volumes.

So yeah, unless massive changes in frame design that greatly change climbing speeds are introduced, nobody has any business seriously challenging Pantani's records while saying they're clean.

 

[Põhja Konn]

He was so much of an outlier (for a number of reasons, one of course being massive EPO use) nobody has come close to most of his times since. The last person to ride Alpe d'huez in less than 40 minutes was Carlos Sastre in 2008, while Pantani did it in 36'40". Armstrong needed an ITT just to break 38 mins FFS. I was a big fan of Sastre, but nobody going faster than him since, even with improvements in materials and frame design speaks volumes.

So yeah, unless massive changes in frame design that greatly change climbing speeds are introduced, nobody has any business seriously challenging Pantani's records while saying they're clean.

Quintana in both 2013 and 2015 and Purito in 2013 did Alpe under 40 minutes too, but that small detail aside I agree with your point.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/07/

 

[Sciatic]

Because Pantanis records is supposed to last forever?

Peak Performances by the very best athletes & best responders that occurred during the period of unbridled use of a potent performance enhancer (before better testing/restrictions began to reduce use of that PED) sometimes DO seem to last forever. To wit, in the Olympic events in women’s track & field, I think the world records for 7-8 of those events (the power/ speed events) are STILL held by Eastern European women who set the marks in the 1980s, when their national sports organizations pumped them full of anabolic steroids. No record lasts forever, it’s true, but Marita Koch’s 400 meters record could last a lifetime.

Likewise for the women’s shot and discus, where not just the record, but all the top ten performances of all time, were set by Eastern European women during the 1980s.

 

[42x16ss]

Quintana in both 2013 and 2015 and Purito in 2013 did Alpe under 40 minutes too, but that small detail aside I agree with your point.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/07/

I forgot Quintana and Rodriguez just snuck under 40 mins in 2013 :/

That 2015 ride was epic from Quintana, and he was still 2'42" slower than Pantani, who was going for the stage while Quintana was pushing for a miracle to win the Tour

 

[Bronstein]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1370758099582205952

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1370758099582205952

 

[Netserk]

Limited testing (outside of competition) in these corona times? Speeds are bonkers.

 

[saganftw]

froome about to feel like greg lemond in early 90s

 

[kingjr]

should be noted that this was also the shortest stage of the three, but yeah, very fast.

 

[perico]

He was so much of an outlier (for a number of reasons, one of course being massive EPO use) nobody has come close to most of his times since. The last person to ride Alpe d'huez in less than 40 minutes was Carlos Sastre in 2008, while Pantani did it in 36'40". Armstrong needed an ITT just to break 38 mins FFS. I was a big fan of Sastre, but nobody going faster than him since, even with improvements in materials and frame design speaks volumes.

So yeah, unless massive changes in frame design that greatly change climbing speeds are introduced, nobody has any business seriously challenging Pantani's records while saying they're clean.

Contador in his prime beat 40 minutes in the Dauphine one year.

 

[roundabout]

Contador in his prime beat 40 minutes in the Dauphine one year.

No.

2010:13,8 km@8%---42:17---average speed 19.58 km/h(Contador-Brajkovic)

Nairo Quintana sets a great time on Alpe d'Huez

Montee Alpe d'Huez 2013:12,0 km@8,6%---38:00---average speed 18.95 km/h(Nieve-Rolland-A.Schleck-Poels) ...

www.climbing-records.com

 

[perico]

No.

Nairo Quintana sets a great time on Alpe d'Huez

Montee Alpe d'Huez 2013:12,0 km@8,6%---38:00---average speed 18.95 km/h(Nieve-Rolland-A.Schleck-Poels) ...

www.climbing-records.com

I probably got it mixed up. He won the stage but didn’t set a record. That’s right.

 

[Red Rick]

Contador in his prime beat 40 minutes in the Dauphine one year.

Contador didn't do a sub 40 AdH. But both the 2013 and 2015 Tours went below 40 minutes by the fastest. Quintana di 39'20 ish in 2015.

Reckon Pogacar would go in the 37 minutes at the least right now.

 

[Red Rick]

Limited testing (outside of competition) in these corona times? Speeds are bonkers.

Honestly, because of the huge shifts in form within races sometimes, I think it's more down to a short acting compound. Ineos wasn't benefitting from the lack of COVID testing in the Tour last year. Then in comes the Giro and from week 1 to week 3 they turn TGH and Dennis from an average GC rider and TT specialist into absolute world beaters. Then there's Pogacar going from getting dropped on Col de la Loze to wafflestomping everyone in an ITT.

Remember Pogacars final Vuelta stage win in 2019 as well, he did that miracle penultimate stage before.

 

[Netserk]

There will always be non-clinic variables that impact performances. Bernal's back, Thomas too fat, Froome FUBAR. And there's no reason not to think that blood bags are still the cornerstone of high-end programs. But there's more to it than that, I think so too. It has just been too long since major reveals for us to know much of current cocktails.

 

[Ripper]

Nothing to see here. Mauro now only invests in mindfulness training for his riders, and WHOOP.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Simon Yates was within 6-7 s of him and the rest of the bunch were within 1 min. So almost everybody broke Froome's record. But the problem is that he will also beat the best TTers at 65 kg at 22 years old without proper position, windtunnnels, computer etc just guts no science, is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Cookster15]

Contador in his prime beat 40 minutes in the Dauphine one year.

I very much doubt that. That was never validated.

 

[42x16ss]

I very much doubt that. That was never validated.

Contador and Brajkovic did just over 42mins at the 2009 Dauphine.

Having said that, would love to know how fast Contador would have gone if Alpe d'Huez had been in the 2009 TDF

 

[Cookster15]

Contador and Brajkovic did just over 42mins at the 2009 Dauphine.

Having said that, would love to know how fast Contador would have gone if Alpe d'Huez had been in the 2009 TDF

For sure AC was at peak of his powers at 2009 TdF and I agree. Like Verbier. Pretty sure the below link lists the official best times on Alpe:

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html

Yes I have seen this Dauphine claim a few times - 38 minutes, Except when he was actually timed outside the top 100 I know its Contador fanboy dreaming.

 

[Ripper]

Contador and Brajkovic did just over 42mins at the 2009 Dauphine.

Having said that, would love to know how fast Contador would have gone if Alpe d'Huez had been in the 2009 TDF

I think peak Conti would have been 2007-2008. Would certainly have been interesting had there not been some degree of cooling off. Off topic for AdH, but that Col de Peyresourde stage from 2007 was crazy.

 

[Ripper]

For sure AC was at peak of his powers at 2009 TdF and I agree. Like Verbier. Pretty sure the below link lists the official best times on Alpe:

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html

Yes I have seen this Dauphine claim a few times - 38 minutes, Except when he was actually timed outside the top 100 I know its Contador fanboy dreaming.

That website indicates Pogacar is setting records rather frequently last year and this year (so far). Pretty interesting.

 

[Cookster15]

I think peak Conti would have been 2007-2008. Would certainly have been interesting had there not been some degree of cooling off. Off topic for AdH, but that Col de Peyresourde stage from 2007 was crazy.

The day before to PdB trading punches with Chicken was pretty crazy too. Don't forget Astana being Vino's team wasn't invited to the 2008 TdF.