Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Salvarani]

I understand what your saying, but I disagree respectably.
The world is bigger than the UK, but it generates a lot more money and support if countries like the UK or USA are more invested in cycling. The Armstrong years brought in so much popularity and money into the sport that was never seen.
Also regarding the world championships being in Rwanda, the world's have been in left field countries before, like Colombia 1995.

That the sport or the commercial interest in it, would be on the decline is not just true though. It is quite the opposite.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Froome]

Yes, we're now comparing 2024 professional athletes to scientists from centuries ago.

Truly the HAHAHAHA era

Yeah, "the AHAHAHAH era" is the perfect expression.

 

[Red Rick]

Now let's take a look at his 21 & 22 seasons. He could be dropped, albiet temporarily, on the Ventoux and have sub-par showings in the Worlds ITT and RR. In 22 he could have the fight taken to him throughout the Tour and blow on the Glandon. Last year there was the obvious setback, but he really got crushed on two occassions in the Tour. By contrast, this year he upped his game to a degree that begs to ask the 64,000 dollar question. What has changed in his preparation? Laughably, he said it was down to the nutrition (poridge for breakfast) and more training above zone 2, as if in 2019-2023 his nutrition and training were all wrong, to be rethought to improve this much. Considering doping as a given, what changed there, because clearly the program he was previously on did not provide this current level, a level he has maintained from March to October. Again he had drops of form in the past, so presumably UAE modified his program to eliminate them, to create a Frankenstein on two wheels. They must have found the magic potion, because it can't be explained away by talent. He doubtless is very talented, but until this year he showed vulnerability, whereas this year he did not. Now given talent is a constant, one can only conclude that the doping improved (or a motor, as has been suggested). True, he was leaner this year, which may account for greater efficiency, but it should also take its tole on resistence in terms of remaining in top shape over the entire season. It used to be that a rider, in the age of modern performance science, could only reach a really low weight and maintain incredible form for a single period, whereas Pog has done it for an entire season. It defies everything we know thus far. With UAE funding and the Gianetti-Maxtin masterminding, I think they have just gotten ahead.

There's multiple things, but I think the increase in performance at the Tour climbs especially just looks like simply dosing higher.

 

[Extinction]

There's multiple things, but I think the increase in performance at the Tour climbs especially just looks like simply dosing higher.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Tim Cahill]

That is just a team made up of top club rejects. Give me Pulis' hard men any day of the week.
In fact give me back the UAE team of old, too, with its three big GC stars Aru, Martin and Mirza.

In many ways Ulissi is like the Ryan Shawcross of cycling, a gatekeeper spanning multiple iterations

UAE are really just Stoke if they were bought by rich Arabs like City were.

 

[Red Rick]

Care to elaborate?

I mean they're always gonna be tweaking things. And I do actually believe they also improve some non doping things, like better time trial preparation, no LBL crash, nutrition in relation to not bonking like Loze again.

But to make a quantum leap improvement you really gotta take something you already know that works and just ramp it up to the maximum.

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842837622768505333

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1842837622768505333


Jorgenson knows what is happening.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In many ways Ulissi is like the Ryan Shawcross of cycling, a gatekeeper spanning multiple iterations

UAE are really just Stoke if they were bought by rich Arabs like City were.

Indeed. Contrary to the situation at Stoke, City was of course a better team in its short lived Hughes era.

 

[Salvarani]

Indeed. Contrary to the situation at Stoke, City was of course a better team in its short lived Hughes era.

City had the owners from Thailand before the Arabs as well, who spent a lot on the team.

Svennis even managed them.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

City had the owners from Thailand before the Arabs as well, who spent a lot on the team.

Svennis even managed them.

I know, but at that point it didn't feel as ridiculous as what was happening at Chelsea and other clubs.

 

[TrekCyclist]

Still not sure what to make of all this (season '24).
Sure, somtimes there are exceptional talents, simply one class above anybody else ("anybody"still all talented, professional athletes)
Usain Bolt, Armand Duplantis, Jonathan Edwards, Tiger Woods....

But then there is this massive jump in W/kg, most obvious at this year's TdF. Not only Pogacar, but many riders.
So yes, it seems there is some "new stuff", but still difficult to believe that Pogacar is the only one on it. Or is he on something "extra on top"?

 

[Salvarani]

I know, but at that point it didn't feel as ridiculous as what was happening at Chelsea and other clubs.

Yeah, Roman was really going nuts at that time. Somehow they have managed to up the level even more after him though. Todd crazy.

 

[pastronef]

And all this on an operation run by Gianetti-Matxin. I think I'll go have a gelato on Tenerife and ask old boy Ricco what he thinks of it all.

he's back at home in Italy. training every day, doing Instagram live for training tips for his followers. he keeps making gelato

 

[Extinction]

I mean they're always gonna be tweaking things. And I do actually believe they also improve some non doping things, like better time trial preparation, no LBL crash, nutrition in relation to not bonking like Loze again.

But to make a quantum leap improvement you really gotta take something you already know that works and just ramp it up to the maximum.

There are tweaking things and TWEAKING things. I mean, you're gonna tell me (whoever this may be) that we improved nutrition, got the race feeding right, didn't crash, worked more on TTing, lost 2 kili and voila', now we have reached "perfection", insofar as this has any meaning until next year. Remember it was the best version of Pogacar, but also the best numbers Vingegaard put up too. Did the crash cause all of the time Vingegaard lost by this year? It was like Tadej had been messing with everyone until this year and then turned on the afterburners and left them all in the dust. Just when they thought they had a chance, he burried them.

 

[Nick2413]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842837622768505333

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1842837622768505333


Jorgenson knows what is happening.

Everyone thinks he’s just applauding Pogacar though. Like how the entire peloton drools over how amazing he is whenever asked in interviews.

 

[Red Rick]

There are tweaking things and TWEAKING things. I mean, you're gonna tell me (whoever this may be) that we improved nutrition, got the race feeding right, didn't crash, worked more on TTing, lost 2 kili and voila', now we have reached "perfection", insofar as this has any meaning until next year. Remember it was the best version of Pogacar, but also the best numbers Vingegaard put up too. Did the crash cause all of the time Vingegaard lost by this year? It was like Tadej had been messing with everyone until this year and then turned on the afterburners and left them all in the dust. Just when they thought they had a chance, he burried them.

The large trend is just dope number go up up and up and that's why Vingegaard does his career best numbers on Plateau de Beille. At the same time I still think he would have done better in the Tour without his Itzulia crash because crashes like that aren't good for your performance.

It should give an idea how much is slight tweaks and how much is just upping the dose.

 

[Red Rick]

Everyone thinks he’s just applauding Pogacar though. Like how the entire peloton drools over how amazing he is whenever asked in interviews.

Pogholm syndrome in action.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Everyone thinks he’s just applauding Pogacar though. Like how the entire peloton drools over how amazing he is whenever asked in interviews.

Matteo just got too close to the sun. This expression is becoming more and more popular in the peleton.

 

[Salvarani]

he's back at home in Italy. training every day, doing Instagram live for training tips for his followers. he keeps making gelato

That gelato is probably awesome

 

[Salvarani]

Matteo just got too close to the sun. This expression is becoming more and more popular in the peleton.

Yup, bonked in Montreal

 

[Ilmaestro99]

With everything that happened this year, it's very easy to forget what Visma did in 2023. What they achieved with vingegard and kuss was absurd, they were so much stronger than the top GC riders in the world that they could let their domestique win a grand tour.

The time trial to combloux was at the time the most obviously rocket fueled performance I had ever seen. They took the p*ss out of Pogacar in that tour, and they took the p*ss out of us fans the whole year.

Gianetti, maxtin, Pogacar probably realized that they could go even further with their programe, even more ridiculous than Visma in 2023, and as long as Pogacar is attacking , people will eat it up and not question.

Visma with Roglic/Vingegard and UAE with Pogacar have been playing the same game against each other since the return to racing in 2020, with a nice little preview at the 2019 vuelta. It snowballs each year.


I hope soon that the elastic snaps.

 

[Stablo]

I really don't know. I know it can't be just because of doping.

You can absolutely not know it. You're here only promoting the UAE:s pr narrative of somesort of super metabolism that apperead after he joined the team. And it even got so much better all the sudden this year. If you take 10k pro athletes, there's not going to be one invidual with hugely superior lactate clearance or what ever marginal ganes kind of narrative they're trying to sell, to give us a believable explanation.

 

[MartinGT]

Not so sure about that, in the UK for example the popularity of the sport has been declining for a few years now. Especially in the ametur racing, numbers are worryingly low especially in the youth races, compared to 10 years ago. I know the cost of living has a lot to do with it of course.
Judging by social media comments, people are already getting fed up with his dominance and predictability.

The numbers of racing in the UK has more to do with the cost of it. Road racing has been dying for a while due to cost of policing it and trying to get volunteers for it. We as a club have tried for a while and it's a pain. Even TT's are slowly dying. The levies etc are just mad.

 

[MartinGT]

I was a Pogi fan. He has a personality and seemed chilled and entertaining. The greed this season, nah, too much kid. The mad attacks etc. What he did in the Giro on taking stages he didn't need to, nah leave some for the others.

I don't think he will ever be caught as it would be too much for the sport. But I wont be watching next weekend. Just give him it now.

 

[carolina]

If you take 10k pro athletes, there's not going to be one invidual with hugely superior lactate clearance or what ever

Why not?

If we look at bodybuilding, where they can use all the drugs they want, it's easy to find guys that were vastly superior to the rest. Ronnie Coleman, Phil Heath... they weren't using anything different from everybody else and they were still much better for several years. Even to this day they're considered much better.

Whatever Pogacar/UAE are doing is not that different from Visma. Pogacar just responds better to whatever they are doing.