Team Ineos Discussion thread

Page 142 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
So, I have been thinking about the Ineos strategy/tactics for taking on Pogacar and Roglic in the Tour. Given the strength they have combined with the possibility that they will need to send one of their GC contenders on early or relatively early attacks during stages, I was trying to game that out in the framework of an individual stage.

Assuming that is what they do, and I freely acknowledge that is an assumption - they could end up trying a different approach to winning the Tour - they would be hoping for Pogacar and/or Roglic to either be unable or unwilling to chase down the attack, or to have one of their other GC contenders come over the top of the Slovenians when the original attack is brought back. Which makes sense, as far as it goes.

But two thoughts occur: first, with two riders/teams chasing one rider/team, if the Slovenians are willing to work together to counter such an attack, it will blunt the effectiveness of the tactic.

Second, this does not even consider what the other teams in the race may want to do in such a scenario. While I think it overwhelmingly likely that the winner of the Tour will come from the Ineos team or Pogacar and Roglic, I don’t think all of the contenders are conceding the Tour. They may well have roles to play in chasing attacks down, if not in a realistic hope of winning the Tour, then of placing a rider on the podium, or even in the top 5 or 10. Their teams may not be much help, though I think Movistar at least may be able to do something if they function as a team, but the individual contenders themselves can assist to some degree.

These considerations do not necessarily make the early attack a hopeless cause, but it is not a tactic that I think it makes sense to base the team’s entire approach to the Tour around. I think that Ineos are going to have to have multiple approaches they are willing to utilize, and will have to probably make snap decisions about when to switch tactics. More than any other GT, I think this is where we find out if Ineos have more to work with than the generally more than sufficient strength of their team and riders.
I see Ineos racing fairly normally, despite not having the strongest gc rider on paper. They will look for an opportunity that arises in crosswinds, and if Porte is dropped, but so is Pogacar or Roglic, then that's a win for Ineos, and they will try to drive home that advantage. Ineos' best chance is that entering the Pyrenees, one of the Slovenians is out of contention, and Ineos still have 2 cards to play at that point, so they can double team that favourite. I doubt that Ineos would attack before the final climb though. "Long range" would be Carapaz attacking at the bottom of the final climb on stage 17 or 18 when a minute down on gc; that sort of scenario.
 
They will not create crosswinds themselves but either will try to eliminate 0,5-1 km mountain finishes by final 3-5 km repeated attacks or will lose the Tour.
9, 17 and 18 stages might be not sufficient but shouldn't wait till 3rd week and try attacks also at 8, 11 or 15.
 
The number 1 tactic for Ineos is playing Pogacar against Roglic. The other tactics depend on fate or luck. I am sure Roglic is really pissed about what happened last year. Or at least Jumbo. They will probably will try to force the hand of UAE into responding to attacks. If they don't then they truly deserve to lose. And if Ineos doesn't attack or try to attack they also deserve to lose. Trying to do train here will be moronic. An Ineos train combined with the JV train will play 100% into Roglic's hands.
 
The number 1 tactic for Ineos is playing Pogacar against Roglic. The other tactics depend on fate or luck. I am sure Roglic is really pissed about what happened last year. Or at least Jumbo. They will probably will try to force the hand of UAE into responding to attacks. If they don't then they truly deserve to lose. And if Ineos doesn't attack or try to attack they also deserve to lose. Trying to do train here will be moronic. An Ineos train combined with the JV train will play 100% into Roglic's hands.
It's unlikely indeed that the two Slovenians would work together. There's a harsh rivalry between them.

I wonder how they will react if TG Hart attacks early in a mountain stage. He's only a helper, so not dangerous, right?
 
Last time around, Roglic worked with Pogacar as he was behind in time, countryman and he was distancing the other riders. This time around, he will only stick with Pogacar as he is the top favorite, same way he did to Nibali. JV wil send riders on the attack Kuss, SK, Vingegard etc forcing Pogacar to chase if his team is not there. The plan would be for Pogacar to waste energy throughout the TDF . Its the only way to stop any thermo attacks/TTs. Ineos would be wise to send their riders to follow or create the move, work with the other JV riders to create gaps for Pogacar to close. Roglic may even allow Carapaz up the road as long as the gap is recoverable in the TTs same strategy as the Giro 2019 except this time he has a good team. Upto 2nd week this would be the dominant strategy conserving energy and the last week the leaders should take up the attacking themselves. Failure is not an option for both teams but one will fail.
Every leader in Ineos has at least one critical flaw
Attack/CounterCrashMechanicalTacticsTTCrosswindDownhill
Carapaz++++--++
G------++++
Porte++------++----
TGH+--
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Eeslliw
Sep 29, 2020
159
199
530
I think JV won't let anyone go from Ineos until first TT. After TT they will have more clear picture of gaps and go from there.

At the same time I wouldn't be surprised, as some mentioned before, if JV would wait for UAE to cover any attacks and just refused to help. But that could quickly backfire and one of INEOS guys would end on top.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Sep 29, 2020
159
199
530
I wouldn't count too much on Slovenians working against each other in a way others could profit much from it.
Looking at previous encounters (Vuelta 2019, Tour 2020) where they clerly worked together, one would say it's unlikely. But the way TJV ride and lost Tour to Pogacar last year, and how they talk they will ride differently, and also talking how Pogacar is big favorite and all. I would put my money we will see frustrated Pogacar because Roglic will refuse to work with him.
 
Last time around, Roglic worked with Pogacar as he was behind in time, countryman and he was distancing the other riders. This time around, he will only stick with Pogacar as he is the top favorite, same way he did to Nibali. JV wil send riders on the attack Kuss, SK, Vingegard etc forcing Pogacar to chase if his team is not there. The plan would be for Pogacar to waste energy throughout the TDF . Its the only way to stop any thermo attacks/TTs. Ineos would be wise to send their riders to follow or create the move, work with the other JV riders to create gaps for Pogacar to close. Roglic may even allow Carapaz up the road as long as the gap is recoverable in the TTs same strategy as the Giro 2019 except this time he has a good team. Upto 2nd week this would be the dominant strategy conserving energy and the last week the leaders should take up the attacking themselves. Failure is not an option for both teams but one will fail.
Every leader in Ineos has at least one critical flaw
Attack/CounterCrashMechanicalTacticsTTCrosswind
Carapaz++++--
G------++++
Porte++------++--
TGH+--
Lol at "mechanical" being a critical flaw for Porte.
 
Looking at previous encounters (Vuelta 2019, Tour 2020) where they clerly worked together, one would say it's unlikely. But the way TJV ride and lost Tour to Pogacar last year, and how they talk they will ride differently, and also talking how Pogacar is big favorite and all. I would put my money we will see frustrated Pogacar because Roglic will refuse to work with him.
Yep. I predict at least one moment where Pogacar attacks, Roglic follows, then Carapaz jumps on their wheel, Pogacar looks at Roglic waiting for him to work, Roglic does nothing, Carapaz counters.

In Basque Country, Roglic deliberately surrendered the lead just to screw with Pogacar, so it's a very real possibility we'll see Carapaz in particular gain some time due to Rog & Pog eyeballing each other. Especially if Roglic has already gapped Pogacar in the TT.

Ineos will know this, i.e. the days of Roglic pulling Pogacar to the line on a climb are over (this already happened on the Col de la Loze last year where Lopez benefitted from the 'anti-Pog" games Jumbo were playing with Sepp Kuss, i.e. it was the Grand Colombier which marked the end of the Slovenian alliance).
 
I really do not understand their tactics (if even they have sth like that), but it looks like Ineos decided to f..ck out most of their possibilities in just one stage.
Well, it's all about too many leaders and not enough helpers. If there is a sole leader like Froome, he just wheelsucks Kwiatkowski and he's relatively save at the front. With 4 potential contenders, they need to choose who is on which wheel. You can accept 2 co-leaders and Ineos mastered this approach with Wiggo/Froome, Thomas/Froome and Thomas/Bernal getting both win and podium place simultaneously. No team can protect 4 riders when it's an ambush stage like this.
 
No need to protect Porte and Tao per se if they just didnt such as positioning, but they do. At least Porte do. Im pretty sure those two dropped the wheels of the rest of the team which didnt get caught and therefore lost time.
 
No need to protect Porte and Tao per se if they just didnt such as positioning, but they do. At least Porte do. Im pretty sure those two dropped the wheels of the rest of the team which didnt get caught and therefore lost time.
Sorry, maybe you are right, but I really can't understand what you mean... your English: Porte or /and Tao with no time losses mean a lot more opportunities for Ineos.
It is obvious, yes?
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Well I'm sure it wasn't the plan and they won't be happy, but given the chaos today I think they may be a bit relieved (like JV perhaps) that at least their main contenders are still in the game. It could have been worse, I mean look at Movistar.
Strategically it now places much stress on Geraint. Carapaz has the ability to freelance and take time back but no one else can afford to leave GT or RC exposed. That's not exactly a plus but it should minimize the inter-team "rivalry" in the press. We know that Brailsford only really had one team leader and now he lives with his #2 choice, Geraint. The saving grace is DQS will be aiming at controlling the race for the next 7 days and working hard at it.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
L

@
Strategically it now places much stress on Geraint. Carapaz has the ability to freelance and take time back but no one else can afford to leave GT or RC exposed. That's not exactly a plus but it should minimize the inter-team "rivalry" in the press. We know that Brailsford only really had one team leader and now he lives with his #2 choice, Geraint. The saving grace is DQS will be aiming at controlling the race for the next 7 days and working hard at it.
I dont think we know this at all. In fact I think most people on here think GT is the 1st choice with Caraoaz as the back up plan.
 
Reactions: SHAD0W93
It will be interesting to see what Ineos think of Rog and Pog watching each other yesterday. Are they gonna cancel each other out on some of the other uphill finishes leaving Ineos to try and get Carapaz or Porte back in the game? Not willing to chase down Ala without giving the other one a tow could help Ineos out.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY