Re:
Note, I am laughing a lot at Tom and his mouthing off too.
Not picking on just Tejay.
Dumoulin, IMO, has a wonderful time trial.
I thought he would crack on one of the mountains. Is he the stereotype natural climber?
No. He said he found when he lost weight, to try and be like Wiggins (so Wiggins is the pattern, they are mirroring his break through and success) that his power when he went under 70kg was too low. Lose weight, focus on his time trial capacity (he is really good now) and improve his climbing because the weight loss helped his watts per kilogram. Naturally, his stamina will be tested. He's in second...he's done really well. Same as Kruisjwijk last year. Great result.
Don't like his mouthing off about 'effort' exerted, but he was simply projecting.
That's his business, but it is actually the very darn thing I have been claiming Tejay seems to be attempting to do without any tangible results. Dumoulin tried the same approach in 2015, lost big time in the Vuelta, focused on the Olympics last year, and has now shown solid gains.
Yes, I believe Tejay tried to do this after 2014. He beat Bardet by a single second. Why? Last time to gain time was a time trial! Bardet has improved. Pinot...TonTon, sorry, but IMO, he faltered for a bit in GT's. Stage races? Not really. He was strong there...he just has had a few issues. Seems to be where he should be as a GC racer right now though. 4th is really solid. Is Tejay hoping for this level?
I think so. Disagree with him that he should expend more years trying though. He had 2015, 2016 and this Giro...
Lets look at the natural climbers in this Giro. Quintana is always up there. Nibali at some races has struggled, however his 3 week grand tour climbing pedigree is solid. They fire. Are they better than Dumoulin? As climbers, absolutely. But not so much better that they can afford to be sloppy and not attack, nor can they be lazy in their time trialling.
People claim Quintana's time trialling sucks. He was about the level Porte use to be at, during last years Tour de France. Note, Porte has probably gone back to his old levels he had at Sky when winning lots of stage races in 2015...it's just Froome and Dumoulin are making huge gains on riders who relative to everyone else, are reasonable. Any GC rider doing a top 20 in a time trial at the end of a GT, is doing really well. I'll re-clarify. Any CLIMBER, aka natural climber, who gets inside the top 20 in a time trial during a grand tour, rode really well.
Nibali did this earlier this Giro. We'll see how tomorrow goes.
He's in what? Second in the Giro and dropped ONLY a minute yesterday pulling himself a long way.
Plus he did win a mountain stage and put time into the other riders once this Giro. So, in terms of relativity, he's been there at the front, in the strongest 3 climbing GC riders.
For Tejay to HOPE to aspire to this is pushing his own limits IMO. Having a goal is super. But it needs to be reachable and achievable. Nothing is worse than having a goal and never getting close. He IMO can't do both the time trialling and climbing as a GC rider. He can do one...and not as a GC rider. Either climb for stage wins, rest, and strategically go for KOM jerseys, stage races, or become a stronger time triallist and switch to being a classics style rider.
In other words, yes Dumoulin managed to climb really well and time trial phenomenally. Tejay lost 4 minutes to him in the Time Trial...his goals have actually harmed his former strong position as a really high level time triallist. Wiggins could do it for a season. Froome has maintained it for 5 years now. Tejay hasn't. Analyse why, and then change yourself.
I'll quote Dmitry Klokov. He said he always trained as though he was going to win. He won an Olympic silver medal. His training focus was maximum and he believed he could compete for Gold. His performance was second. Mentally believing in yourself for gold is where the key lies...
Translating this for Tejay is simple. Don't aim for grand tour GC status and climbing with the worlds best over 3 weeks. Switch for a better goal for himself, race for it, achieve it (he is actually not far from being able to do it in a season if he switches focus) and derive the joy and pleasure that brings rather than chasing a flame in the distance that keeps getting further away (being a GC rider and winner...).
RedheadDane said:I think it's possible to be a decent climber without actually being A Climber. After all, Tom Dumoulin is a pretty decent climber... would require quite a wild stretch of the imagination to call him a climber.
I've not changed my claim once...you probably didn't understand my expression. I've been consistent with what I know is wrong with Tejay.
Once you swapped Too thin to be a climber for Too thin to be a GT contender it made a whole lot more sense.
Note, I am laughing a lot at Tom and his mouthing off too.
Not picking on just Tejay.
Dumoulin, IMO, has a wonderful time trial.
I thought he would crack on one of the mountains. Is he the stereotype natural climber?
No. He said he found when he lost weight, to try and be like Wiggins (so Wiggins is the pattern, they are mirroring his break through and success) that his power when he went under 70kg was too low. Lose weight, focus on his time trial capacity (he is really good now) and improve his climbing because the weight loss helped his watts per kilogram. Naturally, his stamina will be tested. He's in second...he's done really well. Same as Kruisjwijk last year. Great result.
Don't like his mouthing off about 'effort' exerted, but he was simply projecting.
That's his business, but it is actually the very darn thing I have been claiming Tejay seems to be attempting to do without any tangible results. Dumoulin tried the same approach in 2015, lost big time in the Vuelta, focused on the Olympics last year, and has now shown solid gains.
Yes, I believe Tejay tried to do this after 2014. He beat Bardet by a single second. Why? Last time to gain time was a time trial! Bardet has improved. Pinot...TonTon, sorry, but IMO, he faltered for a bit in GT's. Stage races? Not really. He was strong there...he just has had a few issues. Seems to be where he should be as a GC racer right now though. 4th is really solid. Is Tejay hoping for this level?
I think so. Disagree with him that he should expend more years trying though. He had 2015, 2016 and this Giro...
Lets look at the natural climbers in this Giro. Quintana is always up there. Nibali at some races has struggled, however his 3 week grand tour climbing pedigree is solid. They fire. Are they better than Dumoulin? As climbers, absolutely. But not so much better that they can afford to be sloppy and not attack, nor can they be lazy in their time trialling.
People claim Quintana's time trialling sucks. He was about the level Porte use to be at, during last years Tour de France. Note, Porte has probably gone back to his old levels he had at Sky when winning lots of stage races in 2015...it's just Froome and Dumoulin are making huge gains on riders who relative to everyone else, are reasonable. Any GC rider doing a top 20 in a time trial at the end of a GT, is doing really well. I'll re-clarify. Any CLIMBER, aka natural climber, who gets inside the top 20 in a time trial during a grand tour, rode really well.
Nibali did this earlier this Giro. We'll see how tomorrow goes.
He's in what? Second in the Giro and dropped ONLY a minute yesterday pulling himself a long way.
Plus he did win a mountain stage and put time into the other riders once this Giro. So, in terms of relativity, he's been there at the front, in the strongest 3 climbing GC riders.
For Tejay to HOPE to aspire to this is pushing his own limits IMO. Having a goal is super. But it needs to be reachable and achievable. Nothing is worse than having a goal and never getting close. He IMO can't do both the time trialling and climbing as a GC rider. He can do one...and not as a GC rider. Either climb for stage wins, rest, and strategically go for KOM jerseys, stage races, or become a stronger time triallist and switch to being a classics style rider.
In other words, yes Dumoulin managed to climb really well and time trial phenomenally. Tejay lost 4 minutes to him in the Time Trial...his goals have actually harmed his former strong position as a really high level time triallist. Wiggins could do it for a season. Froome has maintained it for 5 years now. Tejay hasn't. Analyse why, and then change yourself.
I'll quote Dmitry Klokov. He said he always trained as though he was going to win. He won an Olympic silver medal. His training focus was maximum and he believed he could compete for Gold. His performance was second. Mentally believing in yourself for gold is where the key lies...
Translating this for Tejay is simple. Don't aim for grand tour GC status and climbing with the worlds best over 3 weeks. Switch for a better goal for himself, race for it, achieve it (he is actually not far from being able to do it in a season if he switches focus) and derive the joy and pleasure that brings rather than chasing a flame in the distance that keeps getting further away (being a GC rider and winner...).