Tenerife

[Dear Wiggo]

Well then don't lead every thread on the forum into yet another discussion on Wiggins, which are generally re-covering old ground anyway. There's a Wiggins thread, there's a Sky thread, discuss it there

Flag a post, become a mod, or join another forum. If Wiggins is relevant to the discussion, he's fair game. MOre posts than not on this page got nothing to do with him.

 

[ElChingon]

On the contrary. Altitude training is actually immediately hurtful to the riders, as recovery (natural that is, ie unassisted) is reduced significantly. Difficult to sleep properly, nausea, lots of other negative symptoms possible. Altitude sickness is not good for training and if you succumb, you're not going to enjoy it one bit.

You need to not skip the word not on your next reading attempt.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Flag a post, become a mod, or join another forum. If Wiggins is relevant to the discussion, he's fair game. MOre posts than not on this page got nothing to do with him.

Fair enough, but to you Wiggins is relevant to every conversation. Just looks a little obssessive, FYI

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Can someone remind if Sky go to Tenerife so that the impact of altitude training means their doped blood-profiles are "OK" from the passport side of things, or do they rely on having the UCI in their pockets, so that any test failures are conveniently lost?

 

[centri]

I have a feeling you may be mistaken in that Tenerife is much more expensive to be used as a training camp than for example Sierra Nevada, how about you ask JV?

Hmm.. I had a friend in Tenerife two weeks ago, when I was in Sierra Nevada. Something about the sun and lack of snow made Tenerife look to be the better place for a bike ride.

 

[del1962]

Hmm.. I had a friend in Tenerife two weeks ago, when I was in Sierra Nevada. Something about the sun and lack of snow made Tenerife look to be the better place for a bike ride.

Good place for training, especially for Grand Tours with some racing not at sea level.

 

[thehog]

I agree 100% that altitude can be used to "trick" the biopassport in exactly the same way microdosing does.... ie: increase retics slightly following an infusion. But that doesn't automatically mean that anyone and everyone who goes to altitude MUST be doping. Regardless of whether or not you are doping, it is virtually imperative to do some training at altitude if you want to compete successfully in any race with high mtn stages. You are at a distinct disadvantage if you don't.

Same goes for competition in the heat. Heat acclimatization causes plasma volume expansion which could offset an increase in [Hb] resulting from doping. Does that mean everyone who does heat acclimtisation is a doper? Of course not, because heat acclimatisation improves performance in the heat.

Thanks.

Who said anything about doping? No one is suggesting everyone who goes to Tenerife is doping.

It's a good place to train. But has the added advantage of being a good place for training and allows one to "jack" the passport.

Lance used altitude to his advantage in 2009 whilst doping.

I've learnt a lot this week in respect to using altitude as a means to avoid detection on the passport. I was unaware that you get a "pass" when tested in and around training at altitude.

 

[Catwhoorg]

That was 2006 and involved boarding the initial flight in Prague, flying to Frankfurt and then to Schipol.

These days liquids of any kind are much harder to get on a plane.
My wife had to a spoon of the baby food we were taking aboard on our last trip. (the formulae was pre-packed and the just did a sniffer scan on those).

I can only imagine what response a blood bag would cause for a someone not a medical courier with the right paperwork.

 

[thehog]

These days liquids of any kind are much harder to get on a plane.
My wife had to a spoon of the baby food we were taking aboard on our last trip. (the formulae was pre-packed and the just did a sniffer scan on those).

I can only imagine what response a blood bag would cause for a someone not a medical courier with the right paperwork.

You certainly wouldn't be transfusing at altitude nor attempting to carry blood on a plane! That's just being silly.

Besides, Tenerife is party-drug capital of the world for a good reason. The ports.

 

[Catwhoorg]

No denying that.

But I was responding to a specific example of the way things were in 2006.
Its a very different world now for anyone flying.

 

[JimmyFingers]

You certainly wouldn't be transfusing at altitude nor attempting to carry blood on a plane! That's just being silly.

Besides, Tenerife is party-drug capital of the world for a good reason. The ports.

Ah blood boats. Presumably Sky have similar high powered motorboats the Colombians use to run drugs into Florida. A fleet of them.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Lance used altitude to his advantage in 2009 whilst doping.

I thought the story emerging this week was that Lance's Giro blood profiles were examined by the UCI passport committee and were normal, as he didn't charge up during the race. On the other hand, his Tour profiles - that USADA say represent a 1/1,000,000 of being legit - weren't examined by the UCI passport committee, as the Big Cheeses at the UCI had used their infuence to make sure Lance's Tour blood results never got passed to the committee to protect "their man".

He doubltess used altitude to his advantage, to prepare for the stretches of the race above 2000m, but I assume this isn't what you mean.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Ah blood boats. Presumably Sky have similar high powered motorboats the Colombians use to run drugs into Florida. A fleet of them.

Why not? A yacht is the next step up from a camper van.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Why not? A yacht is the next step up from a camper van.

That's an outrageous slur against Sky. They would never use a mundane camper van. It would be a long wheel-base Jag estate, specially engineered to Brailsford's blueprint.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Why not? A yacht is the next step up from a camper van.

Plus they have Motoman on a jetski for emergencies

 

[Ferminal]

So that's why Yates met him...

 

[thehog]

Ah blood boats. Presumably Sky have similar high powered motorboats the Colombians use to run drugs into Florida. A fleet of them.

Who said anything about Sky? I didn't.

Why draw the correlation?

Tenerife is well known for its party drug lifestyles. The drugs come from the ports.

I'm not sure why point you're trying to prove? other than you appear very sensitive to anything in relation to Tenerife.

Teneriife is also used by many cyclists for altitude training. That is a fact.

I also know that many cyclists dope. A lot of them.

I also know about the relationship about doping and using altitude as a mask to doping.

This is the Tenerife thread. Not the Sky thread. Lets keep it that way.

Thank-you.

 

[del1962]

No one is suggesting everyone who goes to Tenerife is doping.

It's a good place to train.

Thankyou for the complement on my post

It is good that we are agreed that Tenerife is a good place to train for races which have parts at altitude

Many great cyclists train there, I think you will agree.

 

[thehog]

I thought the story emerging this week was that Lance's Giro blood profiles were examined by the UCI passport committee and were normal, as he didn't charge up during the race. On the other hand, his Tour profiles - that USADA say represent a 1/1,000,000 of being legit - weren't examined by the UCI passport committee, as the Big Cheeses at the UCI had used their infuence to make sure Lance's Tour blood results never got passed to the committee to protect "their man".

He doubltess used altitude to his advantage, to prepare for the stretches of the race above 2000m, but I assume this isn't what you mean.

What was interesting is if you are tested in and around and your location is marked in ADAMS as at altitude then you are given a “heightened” allowance for the passport tests during this period. That I didn’t know. I wasn’t aware that the passport system makes allowances for training at altitude. That’s a very big deal.

This along with the other information on the passport leaked/released this week demonstrates that the program is flawed and not to be taken as a form of evidence that doping has been curtailed or stopped. Cyclists/teams etc. trumpeting the that the passport is “the end of doping” is just toddle.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

What was interesting is if you are tested in and around and your location is marked in ADAMS as at altitude then you are given a “heightened” allowance for the passport tests during this period. That I didn’t know. I wasn’t aware that the passport system makes allowances for training at altitude. That’s a very big deal.

This along with the other information on the passport leaked/released this week demonstrates that the program is flawed and not to be taken as a form of evidence that doping has been curtailed or stopped. Cyclists/teams etc. trumpeting the that the passport is “the end of doping” is just toddle.

The key thing is not how effective the passport is but how effective the riders thought it was. Recent revelations might be news to them as well as us, with the logical outcome that they will start doping more, with more observable "unbelievable" performances than we've seen recently.

 

[thehog]

The key thing is not how effective the passport is but how effective the riders thought it was. Recent revelations might be news to them as well as us, with the logical outcome that they will start doping more, with more observable "unbelievable" performances than we've seen recently.

This I agree with. Considering it took Ferrari 5 minutes to beat the EPO test with micro dosing and skin fold injections then this information won’t be new. All of the Doctors and numbers men representing each team would have already been well aware of this fact and would know the software “thresholds”. Beating the passport is like getting free credits on a 1980s pinball machine - tilt.

In additional it’s a massive faux pax by the UCI to make this information public in how easy it is to bump the passport. The passport was marketing on how clean the sport had become. We now know that’s just BS. The sport has not changed.

David Miller I’m looking at you.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Who said anything about Sky? I didn't.

Why draw the correlation?

Tenerife is well known for its party drug lifestyles. The drugs come from the ports.

I'm not sure why point you're trying to prove? other than you appear very sensitive to anything in relation to Tenerife.

Teneriife is also used by many cyclists for altitude training. That is a fact.

I also know that many cyclists dope. A lot of them.

I also know about the relationship about doping and using altitude as a mask to doping.

This is the Tenerife thread. Not the Sky thread. Lets keep it that way.

Thank-you.

I was going for humour rather than sensitivity, the opposite of this post in fact. Ne'er mind

 

[thehog]

I was going for humour rather than sensitivity, the opposite of this post in fact. Ne'er mind

No you were trying to derail the thread with extreme examples suggesting that “blood boats” is just as preposterous as cyclist doping at altitude.

It’s cute but not relevant.

This is the Tenerife thread. Not the Sky thread.

Thank-you.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No you were trying to derail the thread with extreme examples suggesting that “blood boats” is just as preposterous as cyclist doping at altitude.

It’s cute but not relevant.

This is the Tenerife thread. Not the Sky thread.

Thank-you.

Yawn. I was having some fun. Try it some time

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

The sport has not changed.

Just for a laugh, will you predict the ascent times for the big guns in this year's Tour stage with the dual passage of Alpe D'Huez?

I say approx 46-48 minutes first time up and 41-42 minutes second time up. Definitely much more 1980s than 1990s, I think.