The best sprinter the TdF has seen can't win the green jersey

[Polyarmour]

Mark Cavendish now has 14 Tour de France stage wins. In all likelihood he will bag another one this tour which will equal Freddy Maertens all time record of 15 stage wins. All this in 3 tours by the age of 25. In terms of stage wins per TdF, nobody comes anywhere near Cavendish. I don't particularly like the guy, but his record speaks for itself.

Is there any doubt who has been the best sprinter is on this tour? It hasn't been Petacchi. It hasn't been Hushovd. It has been Cavendish. Petacchi and Hushovd know it too. When Cav winds up he leaves the others trailing in his wake, they can't even hold his wheel. Yet these two guys are ahead of Cavendish on points for the green jersey.

It begs the question as to what is the point of the green jersey when the TdF's most prolific stage winner ever can't win it even once over 3 Tours.

The green jersey with its odd distribution of points seems to value consistent mediocre performances more than it values brilliance.

 

[joy118118]

oh, i am sick of the July posts.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

So your saying Hushovd dragging his big body over climbs with climbers half the size of him last year, not to mention this year as well, for 6 measly sprint points isn't brilliance? Though I do see your point, the green jersey is being rewarded to a guy this year who has two stage wins, and lots of top three finishes. In my opinion, the two riders who have won the green jersey the last two years have done it through exceptional performances. If Cavendish isn't willing to do anything in a bike race not in the comfort of his cozy sprint train, than he'll never win the jersey, or deserve to win it, simple as that.

 

[Ferminal]

Why should the best sprinter be an automatic winner of the points classification?

 

[robertocarlos]

if not then get rid of the polka dot jersey and let ther be actual hill sprints. and it does look good when this hapens. if it is truly about the most consistent rider then guy like contador, shleck and evans will get the green. hell if that was the case cancellara and tony martin will go for it as well. if this happens the sprinters might not target the tour at all.

 

[Franklin]

It begs the question as to what is the point of the green jersey when the TdF's most prolific stage winner ever can't win it even once over 3 Tours.

A completely idiotic statement by someone who just has no idea how many great sprinters there have been.

Or is Henri Cornet the greatest TdF racer by being the youngest TdF winner?

I hope that if the answer on that one is "no", you realise that Mark has quite a long way to go to be the most prolific stage winner in the TdF.


Oh just to drive the point home, here are the most prolific stage winners ever (note that most aren't sprinters). And this is from a simple vist to wikipedia. You know, just look stuff up before saying something might help?

Six riders have won 20 or more stages:

* Eddy Merckx (BEL) – 34
* Bernard Hinault (FRA) – 28
* André Leducq (FRA) – 25 (including half-stages)
* Nicolas Frantz (LUX) – 25
* Lance Armstrong (USA) – 25
* André Darrigade (FRA) – 22

Three riders have won 8 stages in a single year:

* Charles Pélissier (FRA) (1930, in addition to seven second places)
* Eddy Merckx (BEL) (1970, 1974)
* Freddy Maertens (BEL) (1976)

 

[Inner Peace]

if not then get rid of the polka dot jersey and let ther be actual hill sprints. and it does look good when this hapens. if it is truly about the most consistent rider then guy like contador, shleck and evans will get the green. hell if that was the case cancellara and tony martin will go for it as well. if this happens the sprinters might not target the tour at all.

This leads onto something I wanted to say actually...

My impression WAS that the green was supposed to reward the most consistent rider, and on that note, I think the "points" should be the same for all stages (inc TTs), to reward the most consistent, all round rider

I don't think it should reward the best sprinter. The best sprinter is rewarded with stage wins. (Usually) the best climber is rewarded with stage wins on hill top finishes (although, now there is a tendency to let breaks go in mountain stages the last few years - since bonus seconds left - which i thnk is a good thing).

I in general have the same thoughts about the KOM. It is a cool jersey, but it's not for the best "climber", just like the green isn't for the best "sprinter"... Rather, the KOM should reward the most consistent climber, and the points reward the most consistent stage finisher.

I think the green (if points were that same on all stages) would actually go to someone like Vinokourov, Evans, Sagan or even Nicholas Roche - they are the types of riders to be consistent in almost every stage and they are often "up there" in the sprints, just to stay out of trouble. Probably why Evans got the points jersey in Italy, as the points are rewarded more evenly for all stages.

 

[marinoni]

You Said It Brother!

oh, i am sick of the July posts.

What part of 'It's not a sprinters competition" do these guys not get?

 

[usedtobefast]

Cav is a small guy. you would think these small guys could go over these hills with the best of them. or at least not 20 minutes back. it really is a a mindset.
the green jersey is a consistent type of award. that is why i think Alejet and
Thor deserve a big hand for being in the hunt. Robbie is in there too.
gravity is the same for everyone.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

What part of 'It's not a sprinters competition" do these guys not get?

Yup, pretty sure its called the Points classification, not the sprinters classification.

 

[Polyarmour]

Franklin I was referring to sprinters, this being a discussion about the green jersey.

 

[The Sheep]

Well the tour has made a sprinters jersey out of it because you get more points for the flat stages. Doesn't mean the best sprinter should win it though.

 

[online-rider]

Yup, pretty sure its called the Points classification, not the sprinters classification.

Well no offense Guys. But I always heard it referred to as The Sprinters Green Jersey or "The Green Jersey of the Tour de France which is awarded to the best Sprinter"

Haha Call me a fool but I think it is a sprinters jersy and as such they should not give points on a mountain stage after the riders have passed the 1st col.
But you are very welcome to disagree with me.

 

[theyoungest]

Well no offense Guys. But I always heard it referred to as The Sprinters Green Jersey or "The Green Jersey of the Tour de France which is awarded to the best Sprinter"

Haha Call me a fool but I think it is a sprinters jersy and as such they should not give points on a mountain stage after the riders have passed the 1st col.
But you are very welcome to disagree with me.

Sorry, the facts disagree with you. It is a points jersey, not a sprinters jersey. It's an award for consistency, not for sprinting.

 

[auscyclefan94]

It is not the SPRINTS classification but the POINTS classification.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Giro and the Vuelta both have identical points systems. These award the same points for all stages.

If this system were in place during the Tour, the points classification would look like this:

Petacchi 132
Cavendish 131
A Schleck 101
Hushovd 101
Contador 96
McEwen 83
Rojas 81
Boasson Hagen 80
S Sánchez 79
Rodríguez 63
Menchov 59
Chavanel 54
Vinokourov 52
Turgot 52
Ciolek 50

 

[happychappy]

Scraps not sprints. You've got to be prepared to go begging for table scraps - Cav isn't.

 

[online-rider]

Sorry, the facts disagree with you. It is a points jersey, not a sprinters jersey. It's an award for consistency, not for sprinting.

Originally posted by ACF94

It is not the SPRINTS classification but the POINTS classification.

Yes I know It's called the points jersey, I'm not ignorant on that point. But I'll always consider it a sprinters prize, along with %90 of the cycling public ( Yes call us July Fanboys, uninformed whatever you like).

 

[Franklin]

Franklin I was referring to sprinters, this being a discussion about the green jersey.

Darrigade was exactly what again?

Sorry, you just should research things before you crown someone as "the most prolific stage winner".

 

[Cerberus]

Yes I know It's called the points jersey, I'm not ignorant on that point. But I'll always consider it a sprinters prize, along with %90 of the cycling public ( Yes call us July Fanboys, uninformed whatever you like).

You should rather complain about the climbers jersey then. The sprinters jersey looks like it's going to be won by the Tours second best sprinter. The climbers jersey looks like it's going to be won by the Tours 10th-20th best climber. The sprinters jersey in nearly always won by one of the best sprinters, the climbers jersey is hardly ever won by a top level climber.

 

[hrotha]

The best sprinter the TdF has seen can't win the green jersey because he can't be arsed to give it a try. [/thread]

 

[online-rider]

yes I know

You should rather complain about the climbers jersey then. The sprinters jersey looks like it's going to be won by the Tours second best sprinter. The climbers jersey looks like it's going to be won by the Tours 10th-20th best climber. The sprinters jersey in nearly always won by one of the best sprinters, the climbers jersey is hardly ever won by a top level climber.

Yes I know that also Pi1s$es me off quite a bit. At least in the days of virenque it used to go the best climber. And I think Chiapucci was second on the jpodium with Indurain wearing the Polka Dot jersey. It was great to see for us fans. But since then everyhting in the Tour has become less brave and more pedestrian and lame. Who gives a damn about the Polka dot jersey now its more like an embarrassment to wear it, shows how far down the overall you are.
Remember in 97/98? Virenque attacked Ullrich and Pantani at the bottom of the Madeleine, he rode all the way up alone, and down the other side then up to Courchevel with Ullrich who caught him. Who would have the balls to do that these days?? Thats a king of the mountains, these French boys this year are just posing and they know it. You can tell by Charteau's face he's almost embarassed to be on thej podium, he hasn't done anything noble enough to be standing on a flaming podium.
thats MHO

 

[saganftw]

when cavendish gets older and slower he will get better in mountains which will result in couple of green jerseys for him by the time he retires

 

[analo69]

If Cavendish wanted the green jersey, he should have tried to get it.

For some reason he didn't continue his sprint on the first stage and ended up behind all of his competitors. If he had continued his sprint he would have gained a lot of points on that stage.

 

[Pantani_lives]

The points jersey isn't the jersey for the best sprinter. It's the jersey for the best allround rider. In the 80s Sean Kelly won the green jersey three times, Eddy Merckx has won it.
I would prefer to see equal points for mountain stages, time trials and flat stages. Now the easiest stages are awarded more points than the tough stages.