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ericthesportsman6 said:
I like Thor but he has re-modelled himself to be a stronger Classics rider over the past couple of years.Pettachi has made a huge effort just to get to Paris this year and deserves his green jersey. Having said that if the rational for the sprinters jersey is to reward the best sprinter then I agree with a poster on another thread who suggested they should do away with sprint points on the mountain stages.
Your last point is just nonsense as Cav showed pretty decisively in his last win that he does not need a train to win and is clearly a notch above everyone else. Thor is not even in the picture as a pure sprinter anymore.
Jericho said:
(1) He certainly wouldn't have won in 2008. When he left he was in 4th place, over 60 points behind Freire, with a maximum of two sprint stages left.
(2) Things would have panned out differently in 2009 without the DQ, so is impossible to say he would have won with any certainty.
Steel4Ever said:
Perhaps you should have a word to the Tour organisers as they seem to think the Green Jersey is a sprinters competition.
http://www.letour.fr/2009/TDF/LIVE/us/reglements.html
53 x 11 said:
The most consistent rider in the Giro was Ivan Basso.... this fact is beyond dispute. Cadel was just some guy who came 5th and his winning of the "points competition" was a bizarre byproduct of him trying and failing to win the Giro. You may as well have pulled his name out of a hat and rewarded him, it would have the same meaning.
offbyone said:
So do mountain climbers and lets be honest they have the Maillot Jaune and the KOM as well.
Polyarmour said:
Well. As it seems to me, the winner of the points classification in the tour is the one who is wearing the green jersey in Paris.
You can *if* and *but* all you like but the race organisers have a set of requirements that the green jersey winner must meet and, fast as Cavendish is, he hasn't met them - yet. May do by Paris.
If he went in breakaways and collected points or he rode over mountains faster to get to sprints - but he didn't.
And he has a long way to go before he is the best sprinter in the tour's history. Have a look at Erik Zabel's history for one.
Its a bit like saying Lance Armstrong is the best tour rider ever because he won more than anyone else. You have to look below the surface.
cycledp said:
Robbie's 12 wins look pretty good then when for most of them he was elbowing in on someone esle's train because his team was mostly geared for a win in the gc.
Maybe if someone like Cavendish had to scratch for wins like McEwen he would not be looking so good this early in his career.
Who started the train thing anyway? Was it cippolini? Cause that's the first time I remember ever seeing someone use this tactic.
Polyarmour said:
Cadel was trying for the points jersey all along. The fact that he came 5th in the GC while trying to do it was just a bizarre biproduct of him winning the points jersey.
El Pistolero said:
TI Raleigh were doing it back in the 70s. And someone probably did it before them.
Polyarmour said:
"Green Jersey
It identifies the leader in the classification on points. The points in question are awarded according to the passing order on the intermediate sprints and at the finish line. It is the sprint specialists who generally vie for this jersey.
Prize money: €25,000 for the winner of the classification on points."
IT IS STILL A POINTS COMPETITION -- NOT A SPRINTERS JERSEY!
Hey look!
Cavendouche just won another stage!
That means he wins the SPRINTER'S jersey! Woo Hoo!
I think it also means he wins the Tour overall. Awesome.
Cavendouche just won another stage!
That means he wins the SPRINTER'S jersey! Woo Hoo!
I think it also means he wins the Tour overall. Awesome.
If Cavendish had taken 22nd place on stage 3 instead of soft pedaling over the line, and taken 5th place on stage 4 instead of sitting up, he would have won the green jersey.
I'd say there are more people following the progress of the TdF who would like to be able to identify "the best sprinter" than there are who want to know "who is the best points gatherer"
For that reason there should be a jersey for the best sprinter.
That could be the result of a new colour of jersey while either (i) retaining the green jersey or (ii) scrapping the green jersey.
An alternative to that would be to redefine the green jersey so that it is changed to become one for "the best sprinter".
I don't think the TdF's thinking would allow for such deviation from tradition... if they did I'd propose something else....switching the finish from Paris to the top of Alpe d'Huez.
For that reason there should be a jersey for the best sprinter.
That could be the result of a new colour of jersey while either (i) retaining the green jersey or (ii) scrapping the green jersey.
An alternative to that would be to redefine the green jersey so that it is changed to become one for "the best sprinter".
I don't think the TdF's thinking would allow for such deviation from tradition... if they did I'd propose something else....switching the finish from Paris to the top of Alpe d'Huez.
I think everyone is forgetting Caverndish crashed out of the first stage. If he had finished top 5 there (let alone the stage he pulled out of sprint on) he would have been in Green. Petacchi contested every sprint. So the system doesn't need chasnging...
As for points class vs sprint class, I think by having more points for flat stages, the organisers are trying to promote a jersey for a different kind of rider than the usual GC suspects. Its an indication that they consider it somewhat a "sprinters jersey", however there are still some points on every stage. I guess thagt's to reward consisency and making an effort on the stages that aren't bunch sprints.
However, it's not about being "the most consistent" finisher as people here are claiming. The closest thing to that was the Centenary Classification they had in the Centenary tour. O'Grady won it I think. Basicvally you got a point for every position you finished behind the leader (on every stage). Lowest points won.
As for points class vs sprint class, I think by having more points for flat stages, the organisers are trying to promote a jersey for a different kind of rider than the usual GC suspects. Its an indication that they consider it somewhat a "sprinters jersey", however there are still some points on every stage. I guess thagt's to reward consisency and making an effort on the stages that aren't bunch sprints.
However, it's not about being "the most consistent" finisher as people here are claiming. The closest thing to that was the Centenary Classification they had in the Centenary tour. O'Grady won it I think. Basicvally you got a point for every position you finished behind the leader (on every stage). Lowest points won.
Gaul 58 said:
In that case, I would recommend those people look at the results, see who is winning stages, and figure it out for themselves.
If they aren't capable of basic comprehension, and have to rely on a nice colourful jersey to tell them who to look at in a sprint, then they're beyond help.
How do you award a 'best sprinter' jersey anyway? Only award points for flat stages? Bias it hugely towards the top 3 each day?
But then, what do you do on stages like the one Vino won. Vino won in a flat stage but not in a bunch sprint. So do you give Vino the points for the win or do you only count the sprinters going for 2nd? And then, if so, how many riders constitutes a 'bunch sprint'?
No. Much better to continue with the present system. I'd actually prefer the Giro/Vuelta system where points paid are the same for all stages (and incidentally, Cavendish would have won the green jersey were this system - both races offer identical points systems - in place) regardless of terrain, rather than the present bias toward flat stages. The best sprinter will be rewarded by having a huge number of stage wins. And if somebody else wins the jersey by out-thinking Cav's sledgehammer-to-the-skull approach, they should be congratulated for their wisdom and guile rather than having their achievement disrespected by the announcement that the scoring system should be changed.
Cav just needs to keep his head in the game for the entire race. He'll get his green jersey.
But honestly, he's so far above all other sprinters right now, who cares?
But honestly, he's so far above all other sprinters right now, who cares?
Lol, I think CN missed the memo about the Green Jersey not being a sprinters classification but a points one.
"The 25-year-old from the Isle of Man is the indisputable - though still uncrowned - king of the sprints in the Tour de France. Despite his fifth stage win Cavendish missed out on the overall victory in the sprint competition."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/manx-missile-fires-again-on-champs-elysees
"The 25-year-old from the Isle of Man is the indisputable - though still uncrowned - king of the sprints in the Tour de France. Despite his fifth stage win Cavendish missed out on the overall victory in the sprint competition."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/manx-missile-fires-again-on-champs-elysees
Polyarmour said:
Straight from the mouth of Petacchi, the winner of the 2010 green jersey:
"This jersey is very special for me because I came to the Tour just hoping to win a stage and never even thought I had a chance to win the points competition."
At least the athletes understand what the competitions are, even when the public assumes that they know the facts.
Case closed.
Well, the organizers of the Tfd call that points competition a sprinters competition.
I wonder how you win the points competition these days... By gaining points in intermediate SPRINTS and finishing high on FLAT stages. How are most flat stages won in the Tour? By a MASS SPRINT.
I wonder how you win the points competition these days... By gaining points in intermediate SPRINTS and finishing high on FLAT stages. How are most flat stages won in the Tour? By a MASS SPRINT.
Mark Cavendish said:
hrotha said:
Why should he change his tactics? If he hadn't crashed on stage 1 he would have won. I didn't see Petacchi going off hunting intermediate sprints (he contested one all Tour, and only because Hushovd went for it). He won it by getting 7 top three finishes (plus an 8th) to Cavendish's six.
What tactical change would you suggest. I'm sure he'd like to benefit from your superior wisdom.
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