The Caleb Ewan vs. Fernando Gaviria Thread

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Jan 8, 2013
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portugal11 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
I agree... it's almost like the sagan vs EBH thread...
Gaviria is clearly two steps above ewan
of Cav vs Tyler Farrar
 
Feb 23, 2014
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gospina said:
portugal11 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
I agree... it's almost like the sagan vs EBH thread...
Gaviria is clearly two steps above ewan
of Cav vs Tyler Farrar
I sure Ewan will prove to be a better sprinter than Farrar.
 
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Jspear said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
"on his day" I think should be changed to "when he's set up correctly". He doesn't seem to be able to surf the wheels the way McEwen used to.
He hasn't the strength of McEwan nor the capacity to handle the biff and barge (he always comes off second best) that's part and parcel of bunch sprinting. Essentially, he has one core asset in that he is very fast if given clear air but he needs to be "set up right" for that to happen. For THAT to happen, he will almost certainly need to find a new team as Orica is now gearing themselves far more to GC at GTs and this Giro has shown them that a divided effort = burning out a lot of riders too early.

At this point in time, it is quite clear that whilst Gaviria has been in a position of being the main man for his team with regards support; he is clearly the stronger and has a much wider skill set. Ewan at this point looks very much a one trick pony
 
Feb 23, 2014
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yaco said:
Ewan would be better advised to avoid the PR Spin and stop making excuses - Had every chance in the last two stages.
Apparently he broke a spoke 400 meters from the finish yesterday. That seems like a genuine reason to not be in the finale. I haven't listened to any interviews today to see if he was making an excuse.
 
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yaco said:
Ewan would be better advised to avoid the PR Spin and stop making excuses - Had every chance in the last two stages.
Interesting little exchange with Edmonson after stage 12. A little bite by Alex, a little bark back from Ewan, I think they put up an earlier version before editing that video as well (as always, a reminder that for all the PR those videos are really fun and illuminating).

He seemed to have canned the excuses this time around, though. Maybe Whitey didn't want to leave the impression that they're whining all the time after blowing his fuse a little too dramatically on the Blockhaus. In any case the little guy won a stage in the Giro d'Italia just last week. That ain't nothing either. He can bow out with his held high if he so desires.
 
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Jspear said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
"on his day" I think should be changed to "when he's set up correctly". He doesn't seem to be able to surf the wheels the way McEwen used to.
McEwen got better at that, it didn't happen straight away. The best is yet to come for Ewan.
 
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Mr.White said:
Mr.White said:
Ewan is faster of the two, but Gaviria is way more complete
Correction, Gaviria is faster and way more complete. No contest it seems...
I like Gaviria but no way to know about the "faster" part from anything we've seen here. He's without a doubt more complete. And has a much better and more versatile team to support him.
 
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movingtarget said:
Jspear said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
"on his day" I think should be changed to "when he's set up correctly". He doesn't seem to be able to surf the wheels the way McEwen used to.
McEwen got better at that, it didn't happen straight away. The best is yet to come for Ewan.
Ewan is even smaller than McEwen. He got knocked off the wheel by Richeze and never recovered from there. He's starting to look like he might not have the physical presence to truly contend aggressive bunch sprints when everyone is getting desperate towards the end of a GT.

McEwan may have only been slightly bigger than Ewan's 161cm, but he was also batsh!t crazy in a sprint and everyone knew it. Even when it was the likes of Zabel, Steels, Boonen, O'Grady, Brown, Cav - anyone - they all knew that you didn't f@ck with McEwen.

Orica really missed a trick not sending Kluge or Docker to the Giro. Mezgec is a good rider who hasn't done anything wrong, but he doesn't have the same size and presence. When Ewan won his Vuelta stage in 2015, Docker had to almost barge Sagan off his bike two or three times to keep Ewan in position, I don't see Mezgec doing that.

This is where Gaviria destroys Ewan.
 
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42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
Jspear said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
"on his day" I think should be changed to "when he's set up correctly". He doesn't seem to be able to surf the wheels the way McEwen used to.
McEwen got better at that, it didn't happen straight away. The best is yet to come for Ewan.
Ewan is even smaller than McEwen. He got knocked off the wheel by Richeze and never recovered from there. He's starting to look like he might not have the physical presence to truly contend aggressive bunch sprints when everyone is getting desperate towards the end of a GT.

McEwan may have only been slightly bigger than Ewan's 161cm, but he was also batsh!t crazy in a sprint and everyone knew it. Even when it was the likes of Zabel, Steels, Boonen, O'Grady, Brown, Cav - anyone - they all knew that you didn't f@ck with McEwen.

Orica really missed a trick not sending Kluge or Docker to the Giro. Mezgec is a good rider who hasn't done anything wrong, but he doesn't have the same size and presence. When Ewan won his Vuelta stage in 2015, Docker had to almost barge Sagan off his bike two or three times to keep Ewan in position, I don't see Mezgec doing that.

This is where Gaviria destroys Ewan.
McEwan is a couple of inches taller than Ewan and much bigger. He really bulked up in the second half of his career. Ewan is tiny by any standards, short and compact. Armstrong called McEwen the Angry Ant once, when they had some sort of disagreement on the road. Cavendish is also a much bigger build than Ewan. Ewan will have to add some muscle otherwise he's going to get bounced around in the GT sprints. In the smaller races the gaps open up more. Ewan seems more like Greipel, a pretty mild character while Cavendish has a touch of the McEwen in him and doesn't mind some aggressive sprinting tactics. It always helped Cavendish when Renshaw was in front of him. That guy was fearless in the last 500 metres.
 
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movingtarget said:
McEwan is a couple of inches taller than Ewan and much bigger. He really bulked up in the second half of his career. Ewan is tiny by any standards, short and compact. Armstrong called McEwen the Angry Ant once, when they had some sort of disagreement on the road. Cavendish is also a much bigger build than Ewan. Ewan will have to add some muscle otherwise he's going to get bounced around in the GT sprints. In the smaller races the gaps open up more. Ewan seems more like Greipel, a pretty mild character while Cavendish has a touch of the McEwen in him and doesn't mind some aggressive sprinting tactics. It always helped Cavendish when Renshaw in front of him. That guy was fearless in the last 500 metres.
Agree with that summation, think there's about 5kgs difference between McEwen/Ewan's "advertised weights". Ewan HAS actually appeared to have bulked up some but, barring methods nefarious, he's most likely to always be on the losing side of the ledger in most physical clashes (legitimate or otherwise? Agree re attitude, McEwen was just willing to get down n dirty with the best of them to add to the tactical savvy that he acquired over time

42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
Orica really missed a trick not sending Kluge or Docker to the Giro. Mezgec is a good rider who hasn't done anything wrong, but he doesn't have the same size and presence. When Ewan won his Vuelta stage in 2015, Docker had to almost barge Sagan off his bike two or three times to keep Ewan in position, I don't see Mezgec doing that.

This is where Gaviria destroys Ewan.
Fair points but far from the full difference. Gaviria's greater track experience probably also counts in his favour both with regards to strength/endurance plus handling pack racing. The guy has simply a lot more in his skills set than Ewan

As regards Orica's selections, Kluge was ill and off the bike in April so he may've been significantly down on race miles. Also some suggestions, if his Twitter is anything to go by, that he may not currently be a happy camper. His size would most certainly have been beneficial in some cases but I also think that people were over-reading the early season results of the Ewan/Kluge combination; Ewan was losing Kluge's wheel as often as he was following it but was able to get away with it due to early season and Ewan's superior condition to his competition.

Docker ... fair call indeed; not sure what's the story

I just don't see Orica, going forward, ever giving Ewan the full lead-out train that he realisitically needs if he is going to compete at anywhere near "par" at GTs and almost certainly, rightly so. Therefore, if Ewan and his manager aren't already shopping around, then they oughta be
 
Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
Jspear said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
"on his day" I think should be changed to "when he's set up correctly". He doesn't seem to be able to surf the wheels the way McEwen used to.
McEwen got better at that, it didn't happen straight away. The best is yet to come for Ewan.
Ewan is even smaller than McEwen. He got knocked off the wheel by Richeze and never recovered from there. He's starting to look like he might not have the physical presence to truly contend aggressive bunch sprints when everyone is getting desperate towards the end of a GT.

McEwan may have only been slightly bigger than Ewan's 161cm, but he was also batsh!t crazy in a sprint and everyone knew it. Even when it was the likes of Zabel, Steels, Boonen, O'Grady, Brown, Cav - anyone - they all knew that you didn't f@ck with McEwen.

Orica really missed a trick not sending Kluge or Docker to the Giro. Mezgec is a good rider who hasn't done anything wrong, but he doesn't have the same size and presence. When Ewan won his Vuelta stage in 2015, Docker had to almost barge Sagan off his bike two or three times to keep Ewan in position, I don't see Mezgec doing that.

This is where Gaviria destroys Ewan.
Nailed it - Kluge is am imposing figure in a finish, is super fast and his big frame protects Ewan - It was a strange decision.
 
Anyway it was good to see Ewan controlling the peleton today - There are another one or two chances for Ewan or Edmondson to do the same in the last 6 weeks - Anyway Kluge is racing Norway and seems to be the first rider in the sprint train - Gerrans is third only a few seconds behind in GC and must have a chance in tomorrow's last stage - Power is showing good forrm.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
42x16ss said:
movingtarget said:
Jspear said:
Valv.Piti said:
Honestly there really isn't any contest. Not only has Gaviria better top-speed, but is also way more versatile. Not trying to diminish Ewan here, but Gaviria has Sagan-esque potential while Ewan just is fast, pure sprinter who on his day can mix it up with the best.
"on his day" I think should be changed to "when he's set up correctly". He doesn't seem to be able to surf the wheels the way McEwen used to.
McEwen got better at that, it didn't happen straight away. The best is yet to come for Ewan.
Ewan is even smaller than McEwen. He got knocked off the wheel by Richeze and never recovered from there. He's starting to look like he might not have the physical presence to truly contend aggressive bunch sprints when everyone is getting desperate towards the end of a GT.

McEwan may have only been slightly bigger than Ewan's 161cm, but he was also batsh!t crazy in a sprint and everyone knew it. Even when it was the likes of Zabel, Steels, Boonen, O'Grady, Brown, Cav - anyone - they all knew that you didn't f@ck with McEwen.

Orica really missed a trick not sending Kluge or Docker to the Giro. Mezgec is a good rider who hasn't done anything wrong, but he doesn't have the same size and presence. When Ewan won his Vuelta stage in 2015, Docker had to almost barge Sagan off his bike two or three times to keep Ewan in position, I don't see Mezgec doing that.

This is where Gaviria destroys Ewan.
Nailed it - Kluge is am imposing figure in a finish, is super fast and his big frame protects Ewan - It was a strange decision.
Can only protect him so far, all the protection in the world is useless if the guy following still loses his man's wheel.

Kluge's exclusion IS certainly puzzling, maybe one day we will find out the story behind it.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Jspear said:
Ewan is out of the Giro. If Gav finishes the Giro it'll be 1-0 Gav.
1:0 for what? Completing a GT? Winning the point jersey?

Either way, while completing a GT is an accomplishment and requires a little bit of luck, thousands has done it and some of them even 20 times in a row or whatever the current Hanson's record is.

As per the points jersey, we all know that Ewan will never win one, so it is not even a competition ...

As others said, Ewan needs a wide boulevard and a clear path, and even then, he will only win a small percentage of those drag races as Gaviria, Kittel, Cav and many others including Sagan will beat him.

So yeah, Ewan is the King of the Aussie crit racing AKA Tour Down Under and nothing else but a few occasional wins ... at least for now.
 
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Jancouver said:
Jspear said:
Ewan is out of the Giro. If Gav finishes the Giro it'll be 1-0 Gav.
1:0 for what? Completing a GT? Winning the point jersey?

Either way, while completing a GT is an accomplishment and requires a little bit of luck, thousands has done it and some of them even 20 times in a row or whatever the current Hanson's record is.

As per the points jersey, we all know that Ewan will never win one, so it is not even a competition ...

As others said, Ewan needs a wide boulevard and a clear path, and even then, he will only win a small percentage of those drag races as Gaviria, Kittel, Cav and many others including Sagan will beat him.

So yeah, Ewan is the King of the Aussie crit racing AKA Tour Down Under and nothing else but a few occasional wins ... at least for now.
That's a little harsh :D.

Ewan can match all but Kittel, Cav and an on-form Gaviria, but let's be honest, any 22yo in the world would take that. Gaviria on the other hand.... he's looking like the beast we all thought EBH and Sagan were going to become :eek:

His ability is frightening.
 
Jan 8, 2013
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Hammer series sprint is tomorrow. If its like today, it will be Ewan vs Gaviria vs Viviani circuit after circuit. Viviani and Gaviria have the edge due to the Omnimum background. Gaviria has made it clear in the past that he REALLY was upset he didn't win in Rio vs Viviani. He said something to the effect that it will take about 4 point jerseys in GTs to make up for that one gold medal. I believe this is the first time he is going head-to-head with Viviani (the gold medal winner) since that day. Ewan showed he is in shape and is committed, was part of the initial guys getting points on the climbs today.
 
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gospina said:
Hammer series sprint is tomorrow. If its like today, it will be Ewan vs Gaviria vs Viviani circuit after circuit. Viviani and Gaviria have the edge due to the Omnimum background. Gaviria has made it clear in the past that he REALLY was upset he didn't win in Rio vs Viviani. He said something to the effect that it will take about 4 point jerseys in GTs to make up for that one gold medal. I believe this is the first time he is going head-to-head with Viviani (the gold medal winner) since that day. Ewan showed he is in shape and is committed, was part of the initial guys getting points on the climbs today.
Could be very interesting. Ewan's optimal racing format IS criterium racing so this should be compatible enough given its said to be a flat circuit. However, with their additional strength and power, I see both Gaviria and Viviani being too strong for him unless Orica are somehow able to "boss" the field ..... which I can't really see happening.
 
What a great day - The peleton was split in the neutral zone - Think a few riders could have gone with the move but waited thinking the race would come back together again - I expect the sprint stage to be a more sedate affair - Orica should win many points with Ewan, Edmondson and Kluge and even Docker could win points. Think Orica will rest Durbridge and Hayman tomorrow and reserve them for the Chase.
 
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yaco said:
What a great day - The peleton was split in the neutral zone - Think a few riders could have gone with the move but waited thinking the race would come back together again - I expect the sprint stage to be a more sedate affair - Orica should win many points with Ewan, Edmondson and Kluge and even Docker could win points.
They very well could as it seems they've picked a squad well suited; however I see a number of teams who weren't really at today's party being far more involved let alone QST & Postal giving them licence to have it their own way.
 
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dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
What a great day - The peleton was split in the neutral zone - Think a few riders could have gone with the move but waited thinking the race would come back together again - I expect the sprint stage to be a more sedate affair - Orica should win many points with Ewan, Edmondson and Kluge and even Docker could win points.
They very well could as it seems they've picked a squad well suited; however I see a number of teams who weren't really at today's party being far more involved let alone QST & Postal giving them licence to have it their own way.
Come on, Ewan is one of the 2/3 best crit racers in the world. He's going to be in the thick of things.
 

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