The latest Astana affair

[Ferminal]

Anybody who has ever raced a bike at a high level knows that it has NOTHING to do with health. There are lots of MS150 things that you can "win" after you cut up your elite license. Lance raising trucks full of cash for any cause is better than nothing. The good surely out weighs the bad. The guy is a tool sure, but are you saying everybody else let him get 3rd this year,they were not trying? Radio Shack will sell more clothing and give more cash to cycling/safety/health causes than all other teams put together and since we all agree that Lance is an ***, I would say they are doing a great job in spite of him. Do people watch Beckham because he is the greatest football player? The guy can't even strike a match let alone a football in the last 8 years and he fills seats that would have been empty. Who looses when you put these old men out there to compete? Every time you see a Dbag riding in a Radio Shack kit keep telling yourself that it's because they have the best prices on batteries.

Sorry, this is the clinic, it's a bit more cryptic than that, think omerta (and what Lance has done to protect it), think of the tragic events of this week.

I agree with the rest. I'm also interested in the "Start an organization based on health and cure for cancer", does someone have the details of Livestrong's research funding? I wonder how it compares to local/national charities/philanthropists.

 

[Murray]

I can understand people can't relate to my stubborn principles but let's hold the personal insults a little. Sprocket PM'd me telling me I obviously have mental health problems and the sport is better off without someone as "nasty" as me, for example....

Sorry, didn't mean to come across so harshly. I just think we can all enjoy the sport no what the pros do. The things I enjoy about cycling (fresh air, fitness, physical and mental challenge, etc.) are in no way affected by what a bunch of pros in Europe do or don't do.

Cycling is interesting to watch, but don't let it define how you live your life.

 

[JayZee]

This gets said so much, unless you add " in north america" this is statement is false. With it, it is true no question. He did nothing for the sport in Italy compared to Pantani. Doesn't come close to what Big Mig or Contador mean to Spain.
In other English speaking markets he hold no more influence than an equal footing with other guys who have won races, especially with fans who follow more than one race a year, now that really is a defining english speaking market character trait. There is much of the world outside nth. america, especially in the road racing world where they are not major players.

False? The original poster didn't say he did more than Pantani for Italy or Contador/Big Mig for Spain, he just pointed out that Lance has done a lot for the sport, which is absolutely true. Why do you think almost every race wants him there, including the Tour of Italy (maybe not anymore), Tour Down Under, and even the Tour de France. You may not like him, but lets be honest, from a race organizer's point of view he is generally worth his weight in gold for their event. Race organizers our out to make money (sell newspapers, draw crowds, etc.), and if Lance helps them do that then of course they want him.

 

[fatandfast]

Sorry, this is the clinic, it's a bit more cryptic than that, think omerta (and what Lance has done to protect it), think of the tragic events of this week.

I agree with the rest. I'm also interested in the "Start an organization based on health and cure for cancer", does someone have the details of Livestrong's research funding? I wonder how it compares to local/national charities/philanthropists.

I am being sincere when I say this..I still think lots of guys should have been popped by now and even before the Livestrong battle ship pulled in. Why was LA not caught for something? As far as winning bike races he does not have to and still be winner. Just the increased TV coverage has made him a god . They are showing things or free that cost big money in years past all because of king Armstrong. He has somehow started this kid/old guy rant he is coming off as the underdog and people are feeding on it. He is starting to act like Garth Brooks, I am just a regular guy with a 50 million in the bank, I feel your pain. All the charities have their own accounting standards how much of every dollar goes to the cause can be calculated before or after overhead, general rule is make your expenses look necessary, LA needs private planes for him to pick up the donations. I recently went to a cocktail party for a NPO fund raiser, they claim 90 cents on the dollar goes to the cause. I drank GL 18 for free for 3 hours with prime rib and scallops with 300 other people in NYC. It's amazing what 10 cents of overhead can buy. I don't love Lance but I like what he doing for bike racing.

 

[Race Radio]

I can understand people can't relate to my stubborn principles but let's hold the personal insults a little. Sprocket PM'd me telling me I obviously have mental health problems and the sport is better off without someone as "nasty" as me, for example....

Good to hear that I am not the only one Sprocket is stalking.

I wonder if that guy has ever ridden a bike?

 

[BikeCentric]

Anybody who has ever raced a bike at a high level knows that it has NOTHING to do with health.

Not true. I think what you are trying to say is that racing at a high level is extremely hard on your body and not exactly good for you, and in that case you are right. But you need an extremely high level of health and fitness to even have a chance of not getting dropped.

 

[BikeCentric]

Good to hear that I am not the only one Sprocket is stalking.

I wonder if that guy has ever ridden a bike?

I think he probably rides a little but has clearly never raced which explains his ignorance about the realities and logistics of the sport.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I am being sincere when I say this..I still think lots of guys should have been popped by now and even before the Livestrong battle ship pulled in. Why was LA not caught for something? As far as winning bike races he does not have to and still be winner. Just the increased TV coverage has made him a god . They are showing things or free that cost big money in years past all because of king Armstrong. He has somehow started this kid/old guy rant he is coming off as the underdog and people are feeding on it. He is starting to act like Garth Brooks, I am just a regular guy with a 50 million in the bank, I feel your pain. All the charities have their own accounting standards how much of every dollar goes to the cause can be calculated before or after overhead, general rule is make your expenses look necessary, LA needs private planes for him to pick up the donations. I recently went to a cocktail party for a NPO fund raiser, they claim 90 cents on the dollar goes to the cause. I drank GL 18 for free for 3 hours with prime rib and scallops with 300 other people in NYC. It's amazing what 10 cents of overhead can buy. I don't love Lance but I like what he doing for bike racing.

Those things are true, but when weighted against the damage he has done to cycling just by being the hitman for omerta it becomes a push to a lot of people. Then if you add in his behavior this year in nominating himself to a team which already had the #1 tour leader and then campaigning against him via the media throughout the race, well I think we can all agree there are plenty of reasons to dislike the man. Factor in the stuff he does in his very public (by his own choosing) personal life and it is not hard to reach the conclusion that he has the personality of a rabid dill hole, or a raging narcissist to couch it in slightly more clinical terms.
So go ahead and idolize him for what you think he has done for cycling and cancer but don't be suprised when a lot of folks don't agree.

 

[flicker]

**** Cheney/Osama Bin

Now there are a couple guys to hate. Like I said to anyone out there who hates Lance ;you really ride your bike and start a U23 team and a continental pro team. Take Lance out of the equation and Pro cycling is not covered in US; the USriders are good but just not good enough to gather interest in the US.
From what I heard everyone PRO CYCLIST uses Dr. Ferrari or some "Doktor" like him.

 

[RhodriM]

Hey all you Lance haters. Try this:

Win bike races
Overcome cancer
Win classics and world championships
Win tour de france 7X
Start an organization based on health and cure for cancer
Find Pro sponsers
Start a pro team
Sponser a U23 pro team
Ride your bike and work out every day

Start by riding your bike every day. PS Who cares if it costs $9000 and is carbon. Cheers Fred Taylor

Is that what people have to do to be qualified enough to have an opinion?

I'd best not vote at the next election then. I've never invaded Iraq.

 

[ggusta]

Now there are a couple guys to hate. Like I said to anyone out there who hates Lance ;you really ride your bike and start a U23 team and a continental pro team. Take Lance out of the equation and Pro cycling is not covered in US; the USriders are good but just not good enough to gather interest in the US.
From what I heard everyone PRO CYCLIST uses Dr. Ferrari or some "Doktor" like him.

Cheney = Osama Bin Laden ??????? wowwww

 

[guilder]

I will freely admit to despising LA
Anything bad that happens to him and his interests will make me happy.

I spent most of my time watching the TdF hoping he would be dropped humiliatingly, test positive, hell even fall off, as long as he didn't bring anyone else down with him.

My signature hopefully shows that I hate to see the ignorant being misled by the dishonest and greedy, an attitude that I extend to all walks of life.

Well congratulations on your first steps down the road back to sanity. You confess for the sins of many Lance haters who insist on playing the blame game where Lance is the object of all their problems. You must have experienced many years of turmoil trying to come to grips with your intense hatred.

The closest I come to wanting to see an athlete fail is my dislike for Federer. I'll admit he's the best tennis player ever and deservedly so. He is a "miracle" and I say that without sarcasm. Unfortunate for Federer detractors, doping cannot explain his miraculous talents.

If only cycling could get out from under the media driven taint of winning = doping, we wouldn't rely on questioning world class cyclists who possess and flaunt their world class talents.

In reality it's not winning = doping, it's hate = doping.

 

[BikeCentric]

Well congratulations on your first steps down the road back to sanity. You confess for the sins of many Lance haters who insist on playing the blame game where Lance is the object of all their problems. You must have experienced many years of turmoil trying to come to grips with your intense hatred.

The closest I come to wanting to see an athlete fail is my dislike for Federer. I'll admit he's the best tennis player ever and deservedly so. He is a "miracle" and I say that without sarcasm. Unfortunate for Federer detractors, doping cannot explain his miraculous talents.

If only cycling could get out from under the media driven taint of winning = doping, we wouldn't rely on questioning world class cyclists who possess and flaunt their world class talents.

In reality it's not winning = doping, it's hate = doping.

You're not making a lot of sense here. Yes, it is news when a rider tests positive; the media IS going to report on it whenever the results of a major race are muddled due to cheating in the form of doping. This is news and will sell papers. Therefore, any "taint" on the sport is due to the doping itself and the riders who make that decision, not the fault of the media for its coverage. This is why cycling fans hate doping, because it is the doping that taints the sport.

Now can you explain what you mean by "hate - doping"? Also if you could avoid attempting to make amateur psychoanalysis diagnoses of a person based on a few sentence that they write on a discussion board it would be much appreciated.

 

[Escarabajo]

...

If only cycling could get out from under the media driven taint of winning = doping, we wouldn't rely on questioning world class cyclists who possess and flaunt their world class talents.

In reality it's not winning = doping, it's hate = doping.

Good point of view, but Lance Armstrong is not clean either. So your theory don't work for Lance. It did not work for Riis, Ulrich, Pantani, Lance, Landis and Rasmussen. In order to get over the hump with our way of thinking we need proof of clean cycling.

 

[Rupert]

Wow

No, he made mistakes, but was a lot better than what the Americans have now.

That's the clincher. is there any way to apply "ignore" to quoted comments?

 

[Anonymous]

That made me laugh out loud.

Milk came out of my nose...

 

[fatandfast]

Those things are true, but when weighted against the damage he has done to cycling just by being the hitman for omerta it becomes a push to a lot of people. Then if you add in his behavior this year in nominating himself to a team which already had the #1 tour leader and then campaigning against him via the media throughout the race, well I think we can all agree there are plenty of reasons to dislike the man. Factor in the stuff he does in his very public (by his own choosing) personal life and it is not hard to reach the conclusion that he has the personality of a rabid dill hole, or a raging narcissist to couch it in slightly more clinical terms.
So go ahead and idolize him for what you think he has done for cycling and cancer but don't be suprised when a lot of folks don't agree.

Just curious, Do you think that public support(via the media) Helped or hurt Contador or Armstrong? Do you think if Evans said the guy did the best he could it was all part of cycling would have helped him rather than I got screwed oh pitiful me. Would more or less people think he's a crybaby. Contador has access to twitter and plenty of cameras and mics what he chooses to say or type into them could really help him. As we have all seen if blogs/websites were available to Hinault he would have zero appeal or popularity and his career would have ended years earlier as army's of enemy troops chased him down during a pee,puncture or feed. To the informed Lance seems a bit of a pompous monster who can never get enough. To the rest of the millions of cycling fans that wouldn't know a peloton if one poked them in the ***.To them he seems kind and gentle and all that try and slay him are evil and envious of his status. Armstrong can be used like the ***** he is long after he gets of his bike. He is pro cyclings best wing man ever. Now if other continents can create living legends pro cycling will save itself in spite of the bottle o dope on the night table.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Ironic that you think procycling will be "saved from doping" by one of it's major proponents and beneficiaries.

 

[fatterboy]

This gets said so much, unless you add " in north america" this is statement is false. With it, it is true no question. He did nothing for the sport in Italy compared to Pantani. Doesn't come close to what Big Mig or Contador mean to Spain.
In other English speaking markets he hold no more influence than an equal footing with other guys who have won races, especially with fans who follow more than one race a year, now that really is a defining english speaking market character trait. There is much of the world outside nth. america, especially in the road racing world where they are not major players.

mayby but when a big fat rugby guy comes up to me and says he watched the tour and that Lance guy is really fast and he would not have watched it before because he never heard of tour but heard of Lance .
and Treks are # 1 in bike sales around the world now because of Lance .

 

[flicker]

Dat be in da neck Bob

Hey all you Lance haters, I just took a nice bike ride on my TREK in the sun with my son.
Go ride your bikes with your friends and family and think good thoughts.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hey all you Lance haters, I just took a nice bike ride on my TREK in the sun with my son.
Go ride your bikes with your friends and family and think good thoughts.

Is your son out of school at this time?

 

[flicker]

My son is on fall break and the sun has come out from a storm... we are going to ride a little training race at Laguna Seca track Monterey Ca. this afternoon. He is 9.

 

[Escarabajo]

My son is on fall break and the sun has come out from a storm... we are going to ride a little training race at Laguna Seca track Monterey Ca. this afternoon. He is 9.

Good for you. Mine is in school. He is 9 also. He can only ride ~8-9 miles.

Good Luck.

 

[workingclasshero]

Is that what people have to do to be qualified enough to have an opinion?

I'd best not vote at the next election then. I've never invaded Iraq.

funnily enough does he not also disqualify his own opinion with his statement, seeing as he himself has never done any of those things?

oh but then, if that statement means his opinions don't count, then the statement doesn't count. oh the paradox! my head hurts

 

[Mellow Velo]

My son is on fall break and the sun has come out from a storm... we are going to ride a little training race at Laguna Seca track Monterey Ca. this afternoon. He is 9.

So thats' fall, break Trek, then? No wonder I buy Italian.