The Official Lance Hating Thread

[khardung la]

Get a girlfriend and a life loser! Lance bashing is getting realy old!

It is just my opinion dude, but I would be grateful if you would not write unnecesary and tasteless personal comments, including defining people you surely not know personally as losers.

You are in your right to behave like a fanatic hooligan, but it really makes a poor impression of you. If you know, please just talk cycling, defend Armstrong if you wish without attacking other people. Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

All I can say is that if you still believe the lie, you are just who PT Barnum referred to oh so many years ago.

I understand you need to live vicariously through the exploits of others to satisfy the failings of your own lives, but that doesn't mean I have to.

Lance is a fraud. Deal with it.

Oh, and calling me a "hater" only makes me think you are still an adolescent.

i dont believe a lie, i beleive the truth.. i have no doubt he doped in 99, there is evidence to prove it.. but so i believe did many many others... doesnt mean its right, but it doesnt eat me up inside like it seems to some..

im just bored with the people who are so consumed with hate for armstrong they will make a negative out of anything he does, but do not have the same hatret for basso, or ullrich, or pantani, or any one of a thousand people who have taken epo in the last ten years..

I also, frankly object to people who, question my intelligence as a human being, who question my cycling knowledge (im not even going to defend myself on that one, i know what i know, what i have or have not done, i dont need to justify my thoughts), people who will question my credibility to have free speach because my opinion does not agree with there own, or because i have no become so consumed with hatred for one person that i feel the need to rant, and rant, and rant and rant..

i am not in this argument out of a love of lance, i am in this argument because of a deap down loathing of people who have become so cycnical, bitter, and in some ways so obsessed with there own opinion (and they are just opinions, not fact, there are some facts, but there are many many opinions, or conclusions, or assumptions), people who think my opinion is worthless because it is not there opinion...

basically.. you dont like him, feel free to do that... you like him, thats up to you...

but get over it...

interesting that some of the people who hate lance so much, worship some of the biggest junkies in the history of cycling...

double standards, or just very selective loathing...?

my last thought on the matter.. im bored with it now..

 

[nobody]

Get of the froum squirt! I rather believe Lance than some media hog wanting his 15 minutes of fame!

Interesting thought. You are probably right everyone want a bit of fame. But some people are able to break rules and laws for that.

Could it be the case of Mr. Armstrong who seems to like or to be addict to fame too?

 

[Belokki]

It is just my opinion dude, but I would be grateful if you would not write unnecesary and tasteless personal comments, including defining people you surely not know personally as losers.

You are in your right to behave like a fanatic hooligan, but it really makes a poor impression of you. If you know, please just talk cycling, defend Armstrong if you wish without attacking other people. Thanks

what? hatting the haters is not allowed on the hate thread =))?? IT'S A HATING THREAD!! don't come with that fanatic hoolingan thing, cuz I'm not the one who's bashing a man who I don't even know! HOw is that fair?

Now I understand the rules!
1.Lance can't be defended!
2.It's allowed to bash him( any tastles, defamatory comments will be unaccounted for)!
3. It's OK to get personal on the ones who try to defend him,
4.It's not allowed to bash the bashers because it's impolite=))=))

a real brainstorm thread! grat
Great thread bro!

 

[Anonymous]

It is just my opinion dude, but I would be grateful if you would not write unnecesary and tasteless personal comments, including defining people you surely not know personally as losers.

You are in your right to behave like a fanatic hooligan, but it really makes a poor impression of you. If you know, please just talk cycling, defend Armstrong if you wish without attacking other people. Thanks

i will just say that one the whole it was others who made personal comments towards people..

i for one have restrained for making personal comments about individuals as i dont know them, and i also beleive they have a right to there own opinions, however cynical they are..

i would like to say what i think of a couple of people, beleive me, but im keeping my mouth shut..

 

[Anonymous]

You may want to find the full facts.

Lance posts his daily videos at the Livestrong.COM site, not the .ORG site. The .COM site is a FOR PROFIT site that was set up by Lance and a guy who used to do a bunch of internet spam. Armstrong is trying to drive traffic to the .com site because he makes $$$$ off it and it builds his brand.

It has nothing to do with Cancer.

I have the full facts thank you very much if you had taken the time to read.. well of course he does, because the cancer site is a cancer site.. i said whenever i mentioned this that is was .COM so im not sure why you are contradicting me... would be pointless to put them on the .org

so livestrong.com does not push the livestrong brand? there are no links to the cancer side? I was forced into paying money to watch it was I?

i do wish people would read what i have said before commenting on it.. i said .com, i am fully aware it is a .com, so um.. lets slate lance for having a profit making website..

i agree.. it would be so much more sensible for LA to have no income at all and live on bread and water... maybe we should all do the same...

Glass houses, stones, summat else...

thats me done.. lol

 

[nobody]

im just bored with the people who are so consumed with hate for armstrong they will make a negative out of anything he does, but do not have the same hatret for basso, or ullrich, or pantani, or any one of a thousand people who have taken epo in the last ten years..
...
double standards, or just very selective loathing...?

I don't think there is double standard, that is just that Mr Armstrong is able to focus people on him by his manipulative behaviour and his lies.
That happened in 1999 on TDF with french press and today that is with everyone: the announcement of his come-back with a great personal antidoping, his come back was first for cancer,... vbut all of that were lies, so it's normal that he has to suffer of his lies.

Why people would accept to be treated as he did?

 

[Anonymous]

ok.. just to make things a little clearer.. can someone give me a definative list of the endless armstrong lies...

ok...
1) 1999 - failed epo test(s)
2) the anti drugs press conference having taken epo

can someone add to this please, not with rumours, not with opinions, but with hard facts that would be accepted in a court of law.. maybe then some of the lovers and the haters can find some common ground..

 

[Belokki]

ok.. just to make things a little clearer.. can someone give me a definative list of the endless armstrong lies...

ok...
1) 1999 - failed epo test(s)
2) the anti drugs press conference having taken epo

can someone add to this please, not with rumours, not with opinions, but with hard facts that would be accepted in a court of law.. maybe then some of the lovers and the haters can find some common ground..

thats imposible! The haters will always be haters! If they would test the T99 samples and got negatives, the rumour would be that Lance paid of all the testers! It's an endles circle...

And I'm not an Armstrong lover, just hate the haters...

 

[lookkg386]

Thought today's stage write up was quite amusing.

Cyclingnews scouted the Astana bus for that elusive Armstrong quote, but press officer Philippe Maertens informed the wanting Anglophone posse who gathered outside the big blue bus, "Not today, not tomorrow… Even if he wins the stage [today], he probably won't talk [to you]."

What about attending the winner's press conference? Isn't it mandatory?

"No, he probably wouldn't go. I've checked the UCI rulebook, and he doesn't have to go if he wins [the stage]," he said.

I'd say he's riding better than I thought he would, but not as well as he thought he would.
Lost the plot, both on and off the bike, as a result.

Well now I would love to see lance win just for the aftershow!

 

[BroDeal]

tIf they would test the T99 samples and got negatives, the rumour would be that Lance paid of all the testers! It's an endles circle...

But they did not get negatives. They got a positive. Six of them in fact. Now the fanboys have nothing to flail about with other than lame labels for people who point out the facts.

Oh, how the stalwart fans have fallen. It's really quite sad. Just a few years ago they would regale us with endless BS about cadences and weight loss and miracles. Now all they can muster is a rather weak cry of, "Haters!"

 

[BigBoat]

You know I'm glad that Lance does this... He is starting to learn class, for 10 years he had this idiotic (and I think it was his PR advisers) jumping up and down about how he's been clean. Now look, he could practically say he doped and not get santioned (according to the old USADA rules.) There's no need to jump up and down that your clean.

Now if I could just get him to say "no comment" if he gets asked again. Instead of shooting off about being "clean."

 

[Anonymous]

i am not in this argument out of a love of lance, i am in this argument because of a deap down loathing of people who have become so cycnical, bitter, and in some ways so obsessed with there own opinion (and they are just opinions, not fact, there are some facts, but there are many many opinions, or conclusions, or assumptions), people who think my opinion is worthless because it is not there opinion...

I see the irony button doesn't work on your computer. Dang.

 

[Anonymous]

And I'm not an Armstrong lover, just hate the haters...

YOUR IRONY BUTTON IS ON THE BLINK TOO!!!!!!

Both of you are really special....in a short bus kind of way........

 

[pmcg76]

ok.. just to make things a little clearer.. can someone give me a definative list of the endless armstrong lies.

Dimspace, I love that you started this thread, since we brought it back, all the other ones have disappeared. If you are looking at things that stand up in court, I think you can forget the 99 samples, didnt stand up to UCI protocol. Forget the courts, you sound like a Lance apologist which I know you are not. On courts, one name OJ Simpson.

I will throw some Lance quotes out there and you and anybody else tell me how many you believe. My apologies if these are not spot on, would need to re-research these quotes but I remember the general sentences.

99 Interview with L'Equpie on rest day:
In response to his opinion on the Festina affair "That was a huge surprise to me"

On doping, "I have had no contact with doping & there is none on my team"

Everyone knows this one, 2001 I think
"I am tired of the myth of widespread doping"

On his run-in with Filippo Simeoni>

"Simeoni is a liar" for which he was threatened with legal action I think.

"I was protecting the interests of the peloton"

Those are just a handful I remember of the top of my head, how many would you personally believe in are true.

There is one thing people miss out on here, if Lance is the biggest star in cycling, then of course he will receive the most scrutiny and criticsm as well. Think the Beckhams, if you play the media game be prepared to handle the extra amount of crap coming your way. Lance was the patron of the peloton for 7 years so what he does will always have more significance than the smaller guys, how many average Joes out there know Basso, Ullrich, etc. Lance is the de facto rep for cycling in the general joe publics eyes.

Lance cheating is not in the same ball park(publicity wise) as Ullrich cheating just as Cristiano Ronaldo taking coke wouldnt be in the same ballpark as Emile Heskey taking coke. See how many US readers know those two, mabye Ronaldo but definitely not Heskey which is my point.

 

[Eva Maria]

I have the full facts thank you very much if you had taken the time to read.. well of course he does, because the cancer site is a cancer site.. i said whenever i mentioned this that is was .COM so im not sure why you are contradicting me... would be pointless to put them on the .org

so livestrong.com does not push the livestrong brand? there are no links to the cancer side? I was forced into paying money to watch it was I?

i do wish people would read what i have said before commenting on it.. i said .com, i am fully aware it is a .com, so um.. lets slate lance for having a profit making website..

i agree.. it would be so much more sensible for LA to have no income at all and live on bread and water... maybe we should all do the same...

Glass houses, stones, summat else...

thats me done.. lol

In your post you attempted to spread the Gospel of Lance. You feel that your hero was driving awareness of cancer by posting video of himself. If raising awareness of cancer was his goal he would post the video on .ORG and drive traffic to that site.....but he does not.

Livestrong.COM's goal is simple, make Lance $$$$$. Armstrong posting video and driving traffic to the site helps achieve that goal.....it does not cure cancer.

 

[Anonymous]

Lance cheating is not in the same ball park(publicity wise) as Ullrich cheating just as Cristiano Ronaldo taking coke wouldnt be in the same ballpark as Emile Heskey taking coke. See how many US readers know those two.

Assuming that US readers don't watch the Premier League is a pretty big generalization.

Then again, I wonder how many Europeans would think the doping of Manny Ramirez was a bigger deal than that done by Pedro Lambertus?

 

[pmcg76]

I think what is funny and other have commented on is the fact, a few years ago, everyone who backed Lance protested at how he was always clean, how many times did we hear he never tested positive which meant absolutely nothing but it was used as a 100% argument by the Lance fans.

I hated how anybody who ever dared question his methods was automatically shot down by the fanboys. You didnt have to be a hater to naturally questions his performances, anybody with a bit of logic would do so but to the fanboys you were just a jealous, hater(Why?).

This attitude really annoyed me and put me more in the anti-Lance camp. I blame the fanboys for the level of hate that now exists though dont think I am quite at the full blown hater stage just yet.

Now the fanboys seemed to have changed , ok, maybe he did dope but so was everybody else so its wrong to criticise him now. For me, my questioning of Lance never changed but the attitude of the defenders seems to have altered big time. Sorry but you cannot defend, defend, then say, oh ok maybe he was cheating but......loss of face methinks.

 

[tifosa]

pcmg76 I tend to agree with your observations. I've been labeled a hater oddly enough for just thinking out loud, and wondering what if, and questioning questionable statements and results. I'll will never have 1st hand knowledge of any facts, and I doubt the apologists for cycling and Armstrong do either.

However, Armstrong does know the facts, and could provide the answers, but hides behind the veil of Twitter, his publicists, and whomever else is paid to shield him from an unedited, unscripted, court of law fate.

The mythology of Armstrong is alive and well as long as Armstrong perpetuates his myths.

 

[Anonymous]

In your post you attempted to spread the Gospel of Lance. You feel that your hero was driving awareness of cancer by posting video of himself. If raising awareness of cancer was his goal he would post the video on .ORG and drive traffic to that site.....but he does not.

Livestrong.COM's goal is simple, make Lance $$$$$. Armstrong posting video and driving traffic to the site helps achieve that goal.....it does not cure cancer.

see, you still havnt read my post properly have you..

1) i am not spreading the gospel of lance
2) as i have repeatedly stated many many times he is not my hero (however, nor do i consider him the antichrist)
so firstly, please refrain from making assumptions about my intentions, unless my intentions are clear. Secondly, if you are going to assume on a particular opinion that i may or may not have it may be best to re-read my posts first..

This you would know, if as requested you read my posts..

The answer was purely in response to the question of why is lance not speaking to the press, and i responded with a fact, maybe not one that has been confirmed by him, but one that in many peoples judgement is accurate.
the questions raised were, WHY is he not talking to the press, and WHY is livestrong not getting more publicity.. My response clearly showed a) why he is not and b) wether its the .com or the .org it is still the name and it all helps push the name of livestrong be it the cancer foundation or the corporate arm. it did no partcularly need disecting by you further to accuse him of putting them on a profit making website, personally, i did not have to pay to watch them, but it did re-enforce the liverstrong name in my head by going there..

I, for one, dont have an issue with livestrong.com making money, in the same way that i do not have an issue with waynerooney.com making money, or joebrown.com or sarahjefferson.co.uk making money, why the hell shouldnt lance be allowed to make money, in the same was that sastre does, or in the same way that i do, or you do, or the staff at cycling news do writing about lance, or the press do, or the tv companies do, or cervelho, or saxobank, rabobank, trek, nike, ag2r do....

if he puts the videos on the .com hes accused of being a corporate monster, if he put the videos on the .org then he would be accused of exploiting the cancer foundation for his own gains (i assume the fact the videos feature sponsors shirts etc, prevent him from putting them on the org anyway).. ever watched the film hobsons choice.. ?

i am happy to enter argument about lance, as previously said, i do not idolise him, but i do like him as a rider, those who hero worship him, especially if they do so because of irrational beleiefs and thoughts, are mad.. by the same token, the people who hear the word lance and immediately jump to conclusions and attack him, i have no more time for..

pmcg76, particularly i am always happy to entertain.. someone who obviously has little time for lance, but shows the intelligence, and more importantly manners to back up his thoughts with intelligent discussion, well thought out comments and something at least concrete.. its the "hes a cheat" "hes a liar" "he doped once so always doped" anything with an L in it is bad brigade that frankly get on my ****

onto the twitter thing.. it must be remembered it isnt only lance with twitter.. most of the leading cyclists do.. why do we hear constantly about lances twitter... the press, pure and simple..

Maybe we should just have a Official Press Hating thread.. ?

 

[Seth Bullock]

i will just say that one the whole it was others who made personal comments towards people..

i for one have restrained for making personal comments about individuals as i dont know them, and i also beleive they have a right to there own opinions, however cynical they are..

i would like to say what i think of a couple of people, beleive me, but im keeping my mouth shut..

As opposed to telling people what we really think about them, how about we send out a big internet team hug because I think that’s what some people here need – just a big hug. Could I suggest to the IT people of the cycling news forum to upload a “hug” smilie for just this occasion…..

As someone else here said, whether it is cycling, soccer, tennis or the less widely talked about sport of camel wrestling there will always be a Lance Armstrong, David Beckham or Haydon Pitchforth – the 2006 world champion bog snorkeler. As such, these respective kings of their sports will always be subject to more scrutiny and therefore adulation and or scorn than their contemporaries – see Glenn Marshall – the 2006 world bog snorkelling championships runner up. Incidentally what did happen to Glenn? Did he slide into obscurity or just the bog?.....

Back on point, passionate followers of these sports will inevitably be split into three distinct groups – the ‘lovers’, the ‘haters’ and the ‘fence sitters’. With the exception of the fence sitters who couldn’t care less, the lovers and haters will pull out all sorts of information whether it be factual or fiction (there appears to be a lot of fiction on this site…..) in order to back up their ‘love’ and ‘hate’. What results is the inevitable internet punch up as we often see here, which brings me back to my original point – how about a big team hug?…..

Incidentally, I’m a Lance Fan. Bl@@dy hell, it’s amazing how good it feels to get that off my chest – I recommend it I really do. Come on, I know there’s many of you who want to say it too……

 

[Anonymous]

erm.. think theres more groups than that...

idolisers
lovers
realistic likers
fence sitters
realistic dislikers
haters

im a realistic liker, and a hater hater..

as for the other bit.. sounds a bit too much like going to councelling...

"hi.. my names dave, and i um.. i have a problem"

 

[BroDeal]

Okay, I had to look up bog snorkeling. Funny enough there is a cycling connection since there is mountain bike bog snorkeling. I think we may need a new forum...

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, I had to look up bog snorkeling. Funny enough there is a cycling connection since there is mountain bike bog snorkeling. I think we may need a new forum...

interestingly back in 2000 some fat irish bloke smashed records by massive amounts, in times equivalent to ben johnsonns 100m record, bringing suggestions of EPO

im more interested in the real ale wobble, where mountain biking bog snorkerlers are given free beer along the 40mile course..

 

[elapid]

erm.. think theres more groups than that...

idolisers
lovers
realistic likers
fence sitters
realistic dislikers
haters"

Put me in the "realistic disliker" camp. IMO, against him is the 1999 EPO positive tests, the pro-Omerta stance, association with Ferrari, and the control/manipulation of the media. The "I've never tested positive" argument is negated because of the UCI's incompetence: his HCG levels were through the roof because of his testicular cancer (20 x normal) but, despite being tested for this, he never tested positive. I am bemused by his claims that he has returned to the professional ranks to further his Livestrong foundation, but this has been barely mentioned since the TdU and he has pocketed all appearance moneys. I work with cancer patients and his foundation does not do any more (or less) than many other fine organizations around the world, but he still does something about it which is good IMO.

Despite the numerous negatives, he is/was a very good cyclist, arguably the best TdF rider of all time (all accusations of drugs aside), and has probably done more than any other person to promote cycling in a notoriously car-orientated society in the US.

However, I think we should be realistic about the potential that his TdF victories were artificially enhanced and his return to cycling, while benefiting those that stand to make a profit from his return (ie, race organizers), will be harmful in the long run when we are striving for a cleaner peloton and he represents the worst of the old guard with his pro-Omerta stance.