The real Tennis thread.

[BullsFan22]

Re:

He wasn't playing very well at Wimbly. Aussie open were some of the last very good matches he's played. In tough matches you can just see how far his ground game has detoriated. That comeback vs Cilic might just be the last huge match he'll ever win. He'll likely drop from #3 to about #16 before the end of the year. That means a lot tougher draws at the big tournies as well, which is a huge thing considering the quality of players he's been losing to.

I don't know to which end Federer believes he can still challenge for big titles, and to which degree he could be happy being far over your peak and basically just existing on Tour. It's not like he's a man for whom tennis is the only thing he has.

Well he was lucky in the Cilic match. Cilic really should have closed it out in the third set and definitely in the fourth set, but choked. Then Federer himself choked against Raonic. Had he made it to the final, he would have had a chance against Murray. Can't really judge his year as he hasn't played that much due to the knee surgery. Knee surgery and wrist surgeries are two of the worst injuries in tennis. Some players don't recover from those that fast, if ever fully, even when they are younger, and Federer's 35 in two weeks. Knee injury at his age is tough. Only he knows how he's feeling. Unless it really worsened since Wimbledon, he should have tried to give it a go at the Olympics. Though you only have a couple weeks in between Rio and New York. So even if healthy, it would have been tough. He should have chosen one or the other, play Basel and the two other Masters in the Fall and then call it quits. Though he obviously knows his body and his mind better than us at the forums.

 

[Sciocco]

I could actually see Federer sticking around for the 2020 Olympics even if he's 39 going on 40. He might still be viable in doubles at that point.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I could actually see Federer sticking around for the 2020 Olympics even if he's 39 going on 40. He might still be viable in doubles at that point.

You might be right. Doubles doesn't generally have as much competition as the singles does, and the best doubles teams are usually made up of doubles specialists, rather than one good doubles player and one good singles player or two good singles players. Federer, if you remember, won the Olympic doubles in 2008 with Wawrinka, while having up to that point a subpar season (and a case of mono) and they beat the Bryan brothers in the semis and two Swedish specialists in the final. And that was without much teaming up together (even though they knew each other and their games really well) and hardly much preparation by playing doubles. In the past, you'd see singles and top singles players involved more in doubles, but the game is so much more brutal and physical, that the top guys would drain themselves if they regularly played singles AND doubles. I think McEnroe was really the last guy that was winning doubles titles on a consistent basis while maintaining a high level in his singles play. That's to my knowledge and recollection.

 

[Red Rick]

I really don't think so. And it's not because Federer wouldn't do well at doubles. Doubles is full of old players who keep playing because they still enjoy the game, but none of them has had anywhere near the heights that Federer has had, or anywhere near the post career options Federer has. There's nothing the doubles Tour can give him that the Senior Tour and invitationals at slams don't. If he continues to 2020, it's in singles I think.

Anyway, he still has contracts for tournaments for 2017, but not for 2018 that I know of. The ship that was #18 sailed about last year, and I doubt Federer will enjoy playing as much when he stops even reaching the big matches.

 

[Sciocco]

Yea I think he'll keep doing singles but he could be competitive at the 2020 Olympics in the men's doubles and mixed doubles matches. Also, if Federer wants Connors' matches played and matches won records he'll be around for a few more years.

The previously mentioned Shapovalov with a nice point against Dimitrov.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QN_7VJKtkc

 

[Red Rick]

Commentator is ridiculous there. It looks great, but hitting a tweener face forward is actually pretty easy. Not to mention it was completely unnecessary. Stuff like that happens when you run around your backhand wayyyy too often, which he was doing all match. And that's all because his backhand was getting abused all match. Shapovalov will have trouble defending that single hander. Additional problem is that he's a lefty, and every right handed player can hit the easiest shot in the book to abuse it, without getting out of position. Kid's got a really nice forehand though, and plenty of time to develop.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm in a state of disbelief, possibly greater than when Dumoulin rekt Froome in that Vuelta stage.

Grigor Dimitrov is no longer Grigor Mortis, he's actually playing great tennis, and is on an epic 3 match winning streak in Toronto

 

[Atwood]

Dimitrov has lost a lot of confidence over the past two years. Making the QF in Toronto was a good result for him this week. He just couldn't match Nishikori's mental toughness over three sets.

Wawrinka vs Nishikori is coming up soon! Should be good depending on which Wawrinka shows up. Wawrinka in 2 sets or Nishikori in 3.
Monfils vs Djokovic: the way he's playing, I'll give Monfils a set. allez Gael!

 

[Sciocco]

Nishikori into the final. One player I'd like to see win a slam than most any other. Preferably the Aussie since it's timezone links up well with Japan. I'm a little doubtful though due to the injuries and consistency.

I wonder how the scheduling will work out for different players. I cannot see anyone playing Canada - Olympics - Cincinnati - USO and I can't see the top guys skipping Olympics or USO so whether Canada - Olympics - USO or Olympics - Cincinnati - USO is a better schedule we'll have to see.

 

[Atwood]

The schedule is crazy with Toronto, Rio, Cincinnati, US Open, (for many toss in Davis Cup immediately after US Open, too).
I know in Novak's case he skipped Davis Cup in July (as did Andy Murray) and he made it clear that his priority this year was 1.) French Open 2.) Olympic Gold. Cincinnati is the only ATP 1000 title Novak is missing from his collection but I doubt he targets it if he meets his Olympic gold goal. Then throw in US Open, his 13th GS -- and one more next AO will tie Rafa's 14. Passing Fedal's GS records motivates him, I'd reckon.

Monfils had no chance -- that was a clean, routine win for Djoko just now. 63 62. Would like to be wrong, but I suspect another title for ND tomorrow; just hope it's more competitive than the last outdoor hc final he and Nishikori played in Miami in April. Kei looks strong and injury free -- I wouldn't bet on him though!

And I'm a Kei Nishikori fan but I have my doubts about him winning a GS. AO does seem the most likely for him - or US Open.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

The schedule is crazy with Toronto, Rio, Cincinnati, US Open, (for many toss in Davis Cup immediately after US Open, too).
I know in Novak's case he skipped Davis Cup in July (as did Andy Murray) and he made it clear that his priority this year was 1.) French Open 2.) Olympic Gold. Cincinnati is the only ATP 1000 title Novak is missing from his collection but I doubt he targets it if he meets his Olympic gold goal. Then throw in US Open, his 13th GS -- and one more next AO will tie Rafa's 14. Passing Fedal's GS records motivates him, I'd reckon.

Monfils had no chance -- that was a clean, routine win for Djoko just now. 63 62. Would like to be wrong, but I suspect another title for ND tomorrow; just hope it's more competitive than the last outdoor hc final he and Nishikori played in Miami in April. Kei looks strong and injury free -- I wouldn't bet on him though!

And I'm a Kei Nishikori fan but I have my doubts about him winning a GS. AO does seem the most likely for him - or US Open.

I am sure Djokovic and his camp have the schedule figured out. If there's one thing that hasn't caught him out in this post 2010 run is scheduling. He hasn't overdone it with tournaments, but that's mostly due to the fact that he gets to SF's and F's of just about every slam, so naturally he's not going to play right away after deep run at a slam and he usually doesn't play the warm up tournaments prior to slams (by warmups I mean the week prior to a slam, unless it's on grass to get acclimatized). This is easy for him. Federer and Nadal out with injuries, Wawrinka is still up and down, Murray not playing this week, Cilic taken out by Karlovic, Tsonga (what's up with him, injuries?), Monfils is too inconsistent and fades mentally against the top guys, ditto for Berdych, ditto for Nishikori, Raonic may have had the tournament of his life in Wimbledon, not sure if he'll experience a bit of a lull now.

Nishikori is a solid player, but he doesn't have a weapon, a kill shot that can finish a rally. He's fast and usually doesn't beat himself, but as huge as being fast is in the modern game, it doesn't guarantee you wins. He doesn't have the power (understandable for someone that's 5-10) necessary to win slams, and potential for injury is always there for him, unfortunately. The only chance he has is if he goes for his shots more than usual, still plays his normal good defense and Djokovic starts missing. Then again, that's not a bad recipe for anybody.

 

[Red Rick]

Nishikori aka Ninja is an amazing player, and I think he's really underrated. He's definitely in the top 2 of the cleanest ball strikers on the ATP tour right now. Hit cleaner than everybody maybe except Djokovic. He takes the ball super early. He's pretty athletic as well, but he lacks a bit of reach, top end speed and endurance. So when he's up against a better athlete, he's forced to play agressively. He can make you run all day by taking every ball early, and creating angles out of nothing. He's also got the best doubled hander down the line, which helps enormously in constructing points. Otherwise you just stay in the backhand corner, so the crosscourt backhand gets a lot more dangerous as well.

His main problem is just that he's vertically challenged. By being anything below 1.85, you gain nothing in movement, but you lose a lot in of reach and power. His serve is weak, and I've seen occasions where he was totally destroying Djokovic from the baseline, and still lost the set because of his weak serving. He basically only loses against player who match him from the baseline and win against him because they have more power. Since the aussie open, he's lost 2 matches against players other than Djokovic, Murray, or Nadal.

I disagree that the Aussie Open is Nishikori's best chance of winning. That court is super slow, so he'll always have trouble getting winners against players that are physically stronger than him. US open is hist best shot I think.

I was watching Monfils yesterday, and he's like the polar opposite of Nishi. Hugely overrated in talent, incredible athlete who's never gonna make it because he doesn't hit the bal well enough. You just watch a player try to either play reliable tennis and lose 90% of rallies or look for a ball to crush only to make too many errors.

 

[Sciocco]

Yea I was only thinking the Aussie Open since Melbourne is similar to Japan in regards to timezone. The US Open would be awesome though, particularly if I was there.

 

[Red Rick]

Just watched a bit of the WTA Montreal final. In the first set, Halep hit 15 unforced errors, and 1 winner. Still won the set. WTA gonna WTA

 

[Atwood]

I watched some of Halep and Keys, then got side-tracked, and missed the first set of Kei and Novak! Keys couldn't keep up with Halep. Keys' fitness/ conditioning needs to be bumped up. She's got a potential but I don't know. Something is off.

Very true about Kei being vertically challenged, unfortunately. Red Rick's analysis of Kei's game is spot on. It's frustrating to watch him play Novak here. Novak is too much -- he has everything Kei has plus the long stretchy limbs!

 

[Atwood]

Novak forces Kei to try to do too much. Oh as I type Kei gets a break back in the second set! That's some fine ball-striking from both. Kei's pumped.

 

[Atwood]

True Kei doesn't have a "kill shot". Although, I think many of his shots are close enough to that, except against Novak, Murray, and Rafa. Incredible to watch him beat guys like Berdych. His serve is even less effective on slow hc vs fast hc but his footwork and speed is an asset on slow surfaces. And yet, not quite enough to get past both Novak and Andy. He needs some real luck to win a GS. Luck of the draw, for a start. He had that at US Open 2014 but he was tapped out physically by the time he got to Cilic.

This match is already an improvement over the Miami beatdown. He held serve. Miraculous. Come on, Kei!

 

[Atwood]

Bah, only two games improvement over Miami in the end. Another masters title for ND. He made simple work of a draw like he had in Toronto: Muller, Stepanek, Berdych, Monfils, Nishi. Not a set dropped. 30th ATP masters, 4th Toronto. The thrill is not in a final at a tournament like this. Best match for me was Nishi v Stan, for the first set, until Stan decided to tank second set.

Kerber v Halep was good.

 

[Red Rick]

There was a small list of people who believed Nishikori could beat Djokovic tonight. Doesn't have to be the problem, but it is if Kei Nishikori himself is not on that list. Hard to beat the #1 if you get broken once by making 4 errors in your own service game. He's better than that. As soon as Nishi finds a way to get on the baseline and can start teeing off on forehands, he can construct a point very well, even against Djokovic, the problem for him is to get there.

 

[Red Rick]

Apparently, it is possible to be over 2 meters and not have absolutely horrible movement. Reilly Opelka, just shy of 19 years old, just beat Kevin Anderson (2.02m) 67 63 75, coming back from 3-5 MP down on the Anderson serve to win. Opelka is 2.11, and stands to improve his ranking by more than 300 places lol.

 

[Sciocco]

Olympics

Men's Draw
Alternate View
Djokovic v. Del Potro first round! :lol:
Nadal's quarter looks wide open and his form is questionable or even more likely poor.

Women's Draw
The women's game is so random so I'll just cheer for craziness and Radwanska.

 

[Red Rick]

Perks of being Dutch. Haase/Rojer play Lopez/Nadal in the first round, Haase gets Djokovic should he reach the 2nd round. Djokovic beating Delpo 120% of the time.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Olympics

Men's Draw
Alternate View
Djokovic v. Del Potro first round! :lol:
Nadal's quarter looks wide open and his form is questionable or even more likely poor.

Women's Draw
The women's game is so random so I'll just cheer for craziness and Radwanska.

Well craziness has already happened with Radwanska losing in the first round. Apparently she spent an extra couple of days in airports and on flights and wasn't at all well prepared for the first round.

I'm hoping that a similar thing has happened to Serena and she goes crashing out to Daria "Dasher" Gavrilova tonight

 

[Atwood]

This is good. Had to tear myself away from gymnastics but Juan Martin del Potro won an amazing tie break. He and Djoko in the 2nd set just now. Delpo's forehand rocking. Novak and Boris not liking it.

 

[Atwood]

Yeah, sad to see Aga Radwanska knocked out so early. Also a heartbreaker today for Dustin Brown - 6 points from beating Tomas Bellucci but had to retire the match injured, this time with a sprained ankle.

Watched the doubles win for Czech Republic : Safarova/Strycova over Williams/Williams. Poor Venus, lost Yesterday in a 3 set match to Kirsten Flipkens.

This Novak is taking to long to find a way to break Delpo is what I'm seeing right now.