"The stars of the Tour 2008 must tremble"

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yes he is a doper, but he didn't work with Ferrari. I am not defending Dekker.

But I have a low tolerance for ignorance also.

 

[Angliru]

aschleck: Denial denial denial please-no-not-Andy denial

Oh, Andy's a cocky: "I'm the best climber in the world" shortly after getting dropped by Contador and blaming it on the moto's aiding him, excuse making
whiner. This conclusion only came to me after this year's Tour. Before I may have been on the same page as you but not anymore. I don't question his talent but his brother is rather questionable and his boss (Riis) surely can't be trusted as far as he can be seen.

 

[Angliru]

and Gianni Fazio will be crowned king of cycling teams (which I have no problem with, love that guy).

Do you mean Gianni Savio of Diquigiavanni?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ugh, get it to your head it is NOT true, those are sub-par media reports from, I'm sorry, below average quality cycling sites. It's a simple mix up a LOT of people made (even in the Netherlands, although here it's never reached the press)

This was 10000% absolutely NOT true. All the media reports who reported that have done none to no research and/or simply thought italian trainer..oh umm. wasnt that ferrari or something? Yes write that down..

Ok - thank you for the clarification. But take it easy - there were reports linking TD to Ferrari - as you point out probably a mix up of Italian Doctors.

That is why I am on this site - to find out the correct information.
But you stated that Evans has worked with Dr. Ferrari - I have seen no report of that anywhere.

 

[Cerberus]

Oh, Andy's a cocky: "I'm the best climber in the world" shortly after getting dropped by Contador and blaming it on the moto's aiding him, excuse making
whiner. This conclusion only came to me after this year's Tour. Before I may have been on the same page as you but not anymore. I don't question his talent but his brother is rather questionable and his boss (Riis) surely can't be trusted as far as he can be seen.

Why is Riis in particular so untrustworthy. Sure he doped, but so did almost everyone else of his generation, everyone that mattered anyways, and unlike most other Riis is a pathetically bad liar. It took him 10 tries or so to actually muster a denial that he was using doping. I suppose he could have learned, but I don't see why he should be singled out as particularly suspect.

 

[Bala Verde]

Die Wissenschaftler haben mittlerweile die Blutproben und grünes Licht erhalten. Laut KURIER-Recherchen stehen damit hinter ganzen Top-Teams große Fragezeichen. Zudem sollen sich unter den als auffällig gekennzeichneten Fahrern Kapazunder wie Weltmeister Fabio Cancellara, die Luxemburger Kim Kirchen und Frank Schleck, der Slowene Tadej Valjavec sowie der Australier Stuart O'Grady befunden haben. Pikantes Detail am Rande: Fabio Cancellara hatte nach dem Kohl-Geständnis besonders laut gegen den Österreicher gewettert. Bis auf Bernhard Kohl bestreiten freilich alle diese Topfahrer, gedopt zu haben.

What are the reactions to these rumoured/leaked names? Surprise, aha-Erlebnis?

Another interesting article in the Austrian newspaper, a background article on Kohl and his cycling experience, from downing a 1/4L of Wodka with Vino to being a bottle carrier, a crash pilot (awarded the Golden Banana for most crashes per year), gaining 12kg in the off season (58->70kg!) to someone who generally likes to have fun with his colleagues:

"Vor uns war der CSC-Tisch mit dem Sieger der Deutschlandtour, Jens Voigt. Damals ging das Gerücht um, es gäbe ein neues Wundermittel namens PFC. In meiner Berauschung rief ich dem Deutschen hinüber: 'Gell Jens, das sollte nicht CSC, sondern PFC heißen.'" Das Gelächter am CSC-Tisch hielt sich in Grenzen.

Source

 

[Angliru]

Why is Riis in particular so untrustworthy. Sure he doped, but so did almost everyone else of his generation, everyone that mattered anyways, and unlike most other Riis is a pathetically bad liar. It took him 10 tries or so to actually muster a denial that he was using doping. I suppose he could have learned, but I don't see why he should be singled out as particularly suspect.

How is he being singled out? He's the manager/DS of Saxo Bank with a doping past that he denied about for almost a decade and currently has one of the most successful cycling teams of this generation, with numerous riders joining his ranks that suddenly became world beaters. We could attribute this to this superior training techniques and/or his motivational team building camps.
Primarily I referenced Riis because I was posting about Andy Schleck. I wouldn't call that singling anyone out.

 

[issoisso]

I remember Willy Voet mentioning PFC as by far the most health-hazardous doping product in use

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Ok - thank you for the clarification. But take it easy - there were reports linking TD to Ferrari - as you point out probably a mix up of Italian Doctors.

That is why I am on this site - to find out the correct information.
But you stated that Evans has worked with Dr. Ferrari - I have seen no report of that anywhere.

It was reported in 2007 and confirmed by Evans himself. Unfortunaly, the site with the article (sport1.de) doesn't archive very well

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Here are the source stating the relationship between Evans and Ferrari: www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html (article down unfortunately)

Evans confirmed in an Interview during Tour de France, that he uses Ferrari, but of course "only to make Training plans". Just like Vinokourov recently did. Ferrari is probably the most suspected doctor in cycling, and the Italian court prooved, that he was running a hugh doping network from 1992-1998.[/font]

It was discussed on several forums as well...f.e.x
http://www.cyclingforums.com/professional-cycling/415862-cadel-evans-working-ferrari.html

Evands admitted working with Ferrari back in 07 himself :/ not that that is a crime by the way. Im just saying though.

What's more, Tony Rominger, Evans' manager, is also an ex-Ferrari client.

 

[luckyboy]

I remember Willy Voet mentioning PFC as by far the most health-hazardous doping product in use

That's the stuff that Gianetti went to intensive care with right?

 

[issoisso]

That's the stuff that Gianetti went to intensive care with right?

Precisely, my dear Watson

Willy Voet said it was the entire reason why the Festina "programme" was first put into place: the team initially didn't care how the riders doped or what they doped with as long as they got results.

But when they started using things as insanely dangerous as PFC the team started monitoring everything.

 

[filipo]

It was reported in 2007 and confirmed by Evans himself. Unfortunaly, the site with the article (sport1.de) doesn't archive very well

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Here are the source stating the relationship between Evans and Ferrari: www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html (article down unfortunately)

Evans confirmed in an Interview during Tour de France, that he uses Ferrari, but of course "only to make Training plans". Just like Vinokourov recently did. Ferrari is probably the most suspected doctor in cycling, and the Italian court prooved, that he was running a hugh doping network from 1992-1998.[/font]

It was discussed on several forums as well...f.e.x
http://www.cyclingforums.com/professional-cycling/415862-cadel-evans-working-ferrari.html

Evands admitted working with Ferrari back in 07 himself :/ not that that is a crime by the way. Im just saying though.

What's more, Tony Rominger, Evans' manager, is also an ex-Ferrari client.

So you bash on English-speaking sources, but a single non-working link and some chatroom discussions are solid sources?

Makes perfect sense.

 

[iainf72]

It was reported in 2007 and confirmed by Evans himself. Unfortunaly, the site with the article (sport1.de) doesn't archive very well

I recall this story at the time was exposed as made up nonsense. Cadel posted on his own page (in english) to confirm he only works with Sassi and hadn't worked with the myth.

 

[Bala Verde]

Just found an interesting article with Tony Rominger, after the Rasmussen debacle:

Jaksche hat Ihnen im Spiegel vorgeworfen, Sie hätten bei Manolo Saiz, dem damaligen Chef von Liberty Seguros, auf eine «bessere medizinische Betreuung» für Winokurow gedrängt. Hiess das, Winokurow solle sich beim Dopingarzt Dr. Michele Ferrari in Behandlung begeben?
Ich habe nie – und das muss ich ganz klar sagen – einem Fahrer geraten, er solle zu Ferrari gehen. Das Einzige, was ich mir vielleicht ankreiden kann, ist, dass ich nicht schlecht über Michele geredet habe. Für mich ist Ferrari, was Trainingspläne anbelangt, immer noch eine grosse Kapazität. Daran gibt es nichts zu rütteln.

Heute ist es kein Geheimnis mehr, dass in den neunziger Jahren praktisch alle Velorennfahrer mit Epo nachhalfen. Hat dies die Rennen verfälscht?
Verfälscht sicher nicht. Vielleicht sind diejenigen, die von Natur aus einen hohen Hämatokritwert haben, benachteilig worden, und diejenigen, die einen extrem tiefen hatten, konnten etwas gutmachen. Aber es ist klar, dass die Medizin immer etwas zu finden sucht, das die Leistung steigert, und dass die Kontrollen hinterherhinken. Jetzt will man, dass Camenzind [der Schweizer Strassenweltmeister, der wegen Epo-Gebrauchs gesperrt wurde] seine Lieferanten nennt. Aber muss man nicht die Person behaften, die schlussendlich verantwortlich ist? Und dies ist der Fahrer selbst. Ich bin für mich verantwortlich, und ich sage ja oder nein. Wenn einer Charakter hat, sagt er: «Nein, das mache ich nicht.»

Source

Grüsse von der Tony...

 

[Anonymous]

Yes he is a doper, but he didn't work with Ferrari. I am not defending Dekker.

But I have a low tolerance for ignorance also.

Then fix your own because I can assure you that there are a myriad of subjects on which you could work.(hint: we all poses ignorance, its part of being human) Therefore, give everyone a break from your righteous indignation regarding the mistakes of others. If your panties are bunched up, maybe consider wearing boxers.

 

[issoisso]

Just found an interesting article with Tony Rominger, after the Rasmussen debacle:





Source

Grüsse von der Tony...

Don't want to be an ***, but the forum language is english. Posting and not translating is kinda....you know

 

[Anonymous]

I recall this story at the time was exposed as made up nonsense. Cadel posted on his own page (in english) to confirm he only works with Sassi and hadn't worked with the myth.

Oh, but he has a non-working website and some forum chatter to back up his claim...its everyone else who must use Italian, Spanish, French, or Belgian sources twice verified by phone calls to the principal sources of the articles so as to not appear "ignorant" to him...

 

[Bala Verde]

Don't want to be an ***, but the forum language is english. Posting and not translating is kinda....you know

presumptuous?

Don't have the time or desire to translate everything I find. I always assume internet dwellers are agile enough with the 'google-make-comprehensible-button'. If not, they are free to purchase a rosetta stone package - which comes with a free CD.

Anyway, a peloton of cyclists faces similar linguistic barriers, so in the end it heightens the cycling experience...

إن شاء الله

 

[issoisso]

presumptuous?

Don't have the time or desire to translate everything I find. I always assume internet dwellers are agile enough with the 'google-make-comprehensible-button'.

The problem being that the "goggle" or yahoo's year fish barely make better translations than a random person with a dictionary translating isolated words one by one

If not, they are free to purchase a rosetta stone package - which comes with a free CD.

I've tried using that Tool album to translate, but it just sits there. Maybe I forgot some random spell.

Anyway, a peloton of cyclists faces similar linguistic barriers, so in the end it heightens the cycling experience...

إن شاء الله

Isso sim, se deus quiser, é presunçoso

 

[sportzchick]

What are the reactions to these rumoured/leaked names? Surprise, aha-Erlebnis?

Source

I guess being the team that produced the TdF winner id say they would be tested anyway

Suprised? I think that would be an understatement......try flabbagasted

I cant speak for other Countries but I cant tell you how much it would hurt the sport and its fans in Aus if either Cadel, Stuey or both were found to be....

Well I cant say it as Its just the unthinkable

 

[Mellow Velo]

I recall this story at the time was exposed as made up nonsense. Cadel posted on his own page (in english) to confirm he only works with Sassi and hadn't worked with the myth.

Welcome aboard Iain. About time.
This place is a rumour mill, par excellence.
I'm sure you'll keep all up to date with whats at the cutting edge of doping,
from the Hindustan Times.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Anyway, a peloton of cyclists faces similar linguistic barriers, so in the end it heightens the cycling experience...

Bala - I am shocked and I cant believe you wrote that!

I would have expected you of all people to know Chapter XIV Article 79 of our beloved UCI Constitution:
"The official languages of the UCI shall be English and French."

Please pay SFR100 to your nearest Federation immediately (cash only).

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So once more going to sleep and then the positives of the 2008 TdF come out.

My bets;
1.) Sastre (the way he talked alot bout retiring and family + his results this year)
2.) Menchov (very quiet since may)
3.) Pereiro Sio (all of a sudden he wants to retire)

so lets see, 10 am european time....

 

[Frosty]

Are we sure that the results are definitely going to be tomorrow? I seem to remember there was some doubt earlier in the thread?

 

[BroDeal]

So once more going to sleep and then the positives of the 2008 TdF come out.

My bets;
1.) Sastre (the way he talked alot bout retiring and family + his results this year)
2.) Menchov (very quiet since may)
3.) Pereiro Sio (all of a sudden he wants to retire)

so lets see, 10 am european time....

I will be surprised if more than one big rider is caught. I will be mildly surprised if one big rider is caught. The smart riders should only be using transfusions.

I would laugh my ass off if Pereiro goes down.

If I had to bet on anyone then I would bet on Menchov. After discussions with Kohl and the Austrian affair, Menchov has to be under extra scrutiny.