Tour de France 2013

[Eshnar]

But the winner is an Individual.

He shouldn't be punished because his team isn't a mega rich team with all the best Time Triallers.

That holds true for those gc guys who don't have a team filled with climbers to help him on the mountains. I'm not a fan of TTTs, but we could agree that having a strong team is a huge help in any scenario.

 

[the asian]

Oh, only one (poor) mountain stage more will deliver all this?

If the rumours are true, The mountain stages wont be as poor as last time.

Plus the reduced no of flat TT KMs and of course the presence of a certain Two Time Tour winner should help.

 

[the asian]

Having 20 KMs of TTT is much better than having 70.

Anyone Remembers 2009?

 

[Eshnar]

If the rumours are true, The mountain stages wont be as poor as last time.

Plus the reduced no of flat TT KMs and of course the presence of a certain Two Time Tour winner should help.

instead of reducing TTing, I'd rather have improved the mountains.
100+ kms of tting maybe are too many, but 35 are surely too short.

 

[the asian]

That holds true for those gc guys who don't have a team filled with climbers to help him on the mountains. I'm not a fan of TTTs, but we could agree that having a strong team is a huge help in any scenario.

Definitely.

That's why I said having 20 KMs of TTT is ok, but it shouldn't be more than 30, where the potential for huge gaps would be there.

 

[the asian]

instead of reducing TTing, I'd rather have improved the mountains.
100+ kms of tting maybe are too many, but 35 are surely too short.

It's not 35.

Supposedly there is a 35Km ITT and a 20Km TTT.
55Km of Flat TT.

The ASO must also give a chance to their former darling Baby Schleck.

Also there would be a MTT.

Expecting the ASO to vastly improve the mountain stages is unrealistic.

 

[Eshnar]

It's not 35.

Supposedly there is a 35Km ITT and a 20Km TTT.
55Km of Flat TT.

Yes but gaps in a 20 kms TTT are almost negligible (unless you're an Euskaltel) so I was just considering the ITT.

Also there would be a MTT.

which should basically limit pure climbers' losses, as above.

Expecting the ASO to vastly improve the mountain stages is unrealistic.

It is not.
There is no rule that states mountain stages have to get crappier over years.
We should not allow it, instead of considering it inevitable.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

At least the MTT will be proper hard...

 

[OlavEH]

Alps according to Dauphine Libere newspaper, quoted by velowire.com:

finish on Mont-Ventoux
Vaison-la-Romaine - Gap
Gap - Alpe d'Huez (AdH x2)
Bourg d'Oisans - Le Grand Bornand
Annecy - Le Semnoz MTT

I guess there will also be a couple of mountain stages in the Pyrenees in addition to these stages.

Anyway, better than this year, but still.....

Is it really so freakin difficult to use some other climbs than Alpe d'Huez, Galibier, Glandon, Madeleine, Tourmalet, Aspin, Peyresourde, Aspin. It's the same over and over again. Never anything new and exciting. And if they actually add a new climb, you could be sure that they put a looooooong way from the finish line like Grand Colombier and Mur de Peguere....

 

[roundabout]

There aren't that many climbs that can be realistically used for the Tour in the Pyrenees,

 

[OlavEH]

There aren't that many climbs that can be realistically used for the Tour in the Pyrenees,

Well, you do have the climbs close to the spanish border, like Arnosteguy, Bagargui, etc.

A stage to Pla d'Adet like the one in 2005 could also be an good alternative (although this would includ Portillon and Peyresourde).

In the Alps there are a lot more options.

 

[McLovin]

I guess there will also be a couple of mountain stages in the Pyrenees in addition to these stages.

8 sa. 6 juillet 2013 Toulouse ??? Ax-3 Domaines ???
9 di. 7 juillet 2013 Saint-Girons Bagnères-de-Bigorre

Bonascre is the new Tourmalet, apparently.

 

[barmaher]

There are a number of Cat 2 / Cat 1 type climbs in the eastern Pyrennees.

Col de la Core, Col d'Ares, Col du Pradel, etc. Sure, there aren't as many monster climbs, but it would be easy to put together a very punishing stage with 5-7 medium mountains. I liked the stage into Porrentruy this year, for instance. Finishing on top of one of them should be possible, too.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Why don't they do use the good old Portillion, Peyresourde, Val Lourent, Azet, Pla d'Adet combo anymore?
Not the biggest mountains, but ideal terrain to attack early.
Actually it almpst always was the BEST mountain satge when it was used and it alwys created huge gaps.

 

[OlavEH]

Why don't they do use the good old Portillion, Peyresourde, Val Lourent, Azet, Pla d'Adet combo anymore?
Not the biggest mountains, but ideal terrain to attack early.
Actually it almpst always was the BEST mountain satge when it was used and it alwys created huge gaps.

Agree, this would be a great stage. Almost no flat the last 75-80k. Short but relatively steep climbs. Great stage and terrain for aggressive riders and attacks.

 

[Ferminal]

There aren't that many climbs that can be realistically used for the Tour in the Pyrenees,

There is probably what, 15 finishing climbs they could use? Plus a few over the border, and enough smaller stuff in Ariege to have a hard stage. There are enough climbs to avoid having the same finishes every other year, depends on the $$$ I guess. Aubisque and Tourmalet are central to quite a few finishes, I wouldn't have a problem seeing them often if they were used to to make good stages. I think it's the combination of the same climbs and bad stages which is the real problem.

Why don't they do use the good old Portillion, Peyresourde, Val Lourent, Azet, Pla d'Adet combo anymore?

Azet has dropped off the map I think? Funny they can use Peyresourde a million times but not this beautiful chain.

 

[roundabout]

Yes, it depends on the money. I am thinking of MTFs that can be used realistically in terms of logistic and financial requirements.

Bonascre, Beille, La Mongie, Gourette, Cauterets, Pla d'Adet, Arette PSM (!), Peyragudes, Hautacam, Superbagneres (?), maybe something in the East, but those mountains near Font-Romeu are long, but not steep (and some of them are not even long).

10 or so in total.

 

[McLovin]

Yes, it depends on the money. I am thinking of MTFs that can be used realistically in terms of logistic and financial requirements.

Bonascre, Beille, La Mongie, Gourette, Cauterets, Pla d'Adet, Arette PSM (!), Peyragudes, Hautacam, Superbagneres (?), maybe something in the East, but those mountains near Font-Romeu are long, but not steep (and some of them are not even long).

10 or so in total.

luz ardiden, guzet neige, piau engaly, tramasell (i was there and it has a pleateau almost identical to hautacam but they always use the second one) and i'm sure there are some more.

Agree, this would be a great stage. Almost no flat the last 75-80k. Short but relatively steep climbs. Great stage and terrain for aggressive riders and attacks.

or aspet, mente, portilion, bales, peyresourde, louron-azet pla d'adet 6000m of climbing, 7 cols in ~200km.

 

[Ferminal]

You can use Bales and Spandelles for reasonable descent finishes, wouldn't really include Pailheres though as it's a single climb stage to Les Thermes.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Yes but gaps in a 20 kms TTT are almost negligible (unless you're an Euskaltel) so I was just considering the ITT.

These days that's not true, even a good team can lose 30-50 seconds, the margins are so small in modern races that this could easily win or lose the tour for a rider.

 

[Eshnar]

These days that's not true, even a good team can lose 30-50 seconds, the margins are so small in modern races that this could easily win or lose the tour for a rider.

30 seconds are not that much. how many recent GTs have been won by less than 30 seconds?
In any case, the gaps provided by a ITT are certainly bigger.

 

[Bavarianrider]

These days that's not true, even a good team can lose 30-50 seconds, the margins are so small in modern races that this could easily win or lose the tour for a rider.

You seriously gonna argue that a good team in the mountains can't bring up 30-50 seconds over an entire Tour.

Cycling has really become a sissy sport if a 20km TT is considered too long. Rofl

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Just out of curiousity, what was the longest TTT on the WorldTour calendar aside from the one at Worlds? It couldn't have been much longer than the one at the Giro...and frankly, that's a shame. The TTTs should be close to the 60km limit, in my opinion.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yay a mtt

 

[LaFlorecita]

That's an ideal length for the TTT. Anything more is unfair.

There is a MTT, ITT and TTT. Well balanced.

Overly long ITTs will only provide entertainment to fans of bore fests like you and your countryman FoxyBrown.

It will not provide exciting racing.

I agree +10000