UCI appeals Contador decision

[BYOP88]

No.
The initials AC found in Fuente's documents belonged to a rider from Liberty Seguros.
So it could only have been Dirtie.

Though many riders of of LS were implicated, it was definitely not just about riders of LS.
You do remember why Ulrich is now watching movies on his bench, right?

Yes and many riders not on Liberty were implicated in that document and while the AC could imply Contador it could imply Colom too. So unless there's a link to a document that states that AC= Contador in the Fuente's list, then surely it's just specualtion or hope on your part that it is Contador.

Yes I do remember why Ullrich is watching movies on his bench.

 

[Lanark]

Yes and many riders not on Liberty were implicated in that document and while the AC could imply Contador it could imply Colom too. So unless there's a link to a document that states that AC= Contador in the Fuente's list, then surely it's just specualtion or hope on your part that it is Contador.

It does, and has been posted here many times in the past. But one last time:

it's certain that AC=Alberto Contador, it's not certain that AC was an actual Fuentes client, that code just appears on a list with other Liberty riders. As far as I know, there is no blood bag with the AC-tag.

 

[webvan]

Mr. 60% weighs in http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-defends-contadors-right-to-ride-the-tour-de-france - what a joke

 

[Blakeslee]

That interview with Riis really bothered me. Though the UCI was certainly originally at fault in the hearing process getting off to such a slow start, from what has been published so far it looks like it is Contador's people who are responsible for the postponement this time. If Contador wants to delay the hearing until after the Tour he ought to voluntarily sit out this year.

 

[meandmygitane]

What does Mosquera have to do with anything? His case didn't even reach the RFEC until very recently.

Maybe I'm overreacting but....
Maybe Mosquera is an example, where possible stalling tactics should not rewarded.

Mosquera timeline:
Positive test given 16 September 2010
UCI notifies of positive test 30 September 2010.
"B-sample still in preperation" according to UCI - 6. November 2010.
Cyclingnews: "It is understood that in Mosquera's case, the B sample has not yet been tested." - February 2011
RFEC case opened - 29 April 2011

What did they do for 3½ month NOT testing the B-sample?? Was it a tactic? Is the UCI opening the case with only A-sample, if so why wasn't the B-sample opened?

Mosquera was free to ride until 28 april this year, does this sound right to you? Not that Vacansoleil let him.

I hope that ASO does the same thing as Vacansoleil..

 

[Johnny Rotten]

The interview with Riis made me snicker on soo many levels.

First of all I think he is a half gifted DS who has simply had riders on the right "program" and that has been the foundation of his success. Also he is the last person whos word on what should be fair or not, shouldnt be regarded as anything other than self serving as there is a obvious conflict of interest here.

That said, of course he will claim Berto should get to race, his sponsorships are riding on another tour success. Besides Riis doped so he knows and could care less if Bert is guilty. He will simply tell Bert to be smarter next time and dont take the blood out when you have clen in the system lol.

 

[webvan]

Riis is a disgrace to the sport, he should be banned for life.

 

[luckyboy]

First of all I think he is a half gifted DS who has simply had riders on the right "program" and that has been the foundation of his success.

Obviously there is some kind of program at Saxo Bank, but he does seem to be very good at motivating riders. I wouldn't say he was 'half gifted' as a DS.

 

[hrotha]

Maybe I'm overreacting but....
Maybe Mosquera is an example, where possible stalling tactics should not rewarded.

Mosquera timeline:
Positive test given 16 September 2010
UCI notifies of positive test 30 September 2010.
"B-sample still in preperation" according to UCI - 6. November 2010.
Cyclingnews: "It is understood that in Mosquera's case, the B sample has not yet been tested." - February 2011
RFEC case opened - 29 April 2011

What did they do for 3½ month NOT testing the B-sample?? Was it a tactic? Is the UCI opening the case with only A-sample, if so why wasn't the B-sample opened?

Mosquera was free to ride until 28 april this year, does this sound right to you? Not that Vacansoleil let him.

I hope that ASO does the same thing as Vacansoleil..

Mosquera's case is complicated because they can't ban him unless they can prove the hydroxyethyl starch was taken intravenously. In my opinion, all the stalling by the UCI is simply so they can have him unofficially banned, because they can't ban him by the book due to a loophole.

 

[JPM London]

Apparently ASO has decreed that no printed Tour material can have Conti on the front page which has been interpreted as the first step to keep away this year - don't have any sort of confirmation though... Anybody?

It does, and has been posted here many times in the past. But one last time:

it's certain that AC=Alberto Contador, it's not certain that AC was an actual Fuentes client, that code just appears on a list with other Liberty riders. As far as I know, there is no blood bag with the AC-tag.

Could you point to somewhere that is confirmed? I keep hearing that it's certain and then that it's not and then... and then... - If you've got a link or something that be much appreciated.

Mr. 60% weighs in http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-defends-contadors-right-to-ride-the-tour-de-france - what a joke

When did Chiapucci weigh in?

 

[Lanark]

Could you point to somewhere that is confirmed? I keep hearing that it's certain and then that it's not and then... and then... - If you've got a link or something that be much appreciated.

Sure, the code AC appears only once in the Guardia Civil report, and it's explicitly identified as being Contador, and considering the other names on this particular document, it wouldn't make sense to be anyone but Contador:

 

[JPM London]

Ta for that... The report has never been translated into Inglese, has it?

 

[sniper]

It does, and has been posted here many times in the past. But one last time:

it's certain that AC=Alberto Contador, it's not certain that AC was an actual Fuentes client, that code just appears on a list with other Liberty riders. As far as I know, there is no blood bag with the AC-tag.

actually, it's pretty certain that he was.
there is a Fuentes shopping list with AC's initials and different doping products and a time line written behind it.
It's all shown in the German documentary Blut und Spielen (can be found on youtube).

Also, the German anti-dope specialist Werner Franke has the Fuentes documents and has on more than one occasion affirmed that Dirtie was a Fuentes client, though outside of Germany not many people are willing to hear it.
And I haven't seen evidence suggesting that Franke would have any anti-Dirtie bias, so he's probably just speaking the truth.

 

[Andynonomous]

Release the damned list !

Also, the German anti-dope specialist Werner Franke has the Fuentes documents ...

Does he have enough information to list the two hundred or so athletes that used (prior to 2006) Fuentes services (the information the Spaniards have been desperate to cover up) ?


There are a WHOLE lot of people (myself included) that would like to see this list "leaked" to the press (at least some obscure blogger would publicize it).

 

[sniper]

Does he have enough information to list the two hundred or so athletes that used (prior to 2006) Fuentes services (the information the Spaniards have been desperate to cover up) ?


There are a WHOLE lot of people (myself included) that would like to see this list "leaked" to the press (at least some obscure blogger would publicize it).

Though I can't really answer your question, there are several options:

a) Franke is bluffing
b) Nobody (i.e. no media outlet or sports governing body) is really interested in what Franke has to say
c) Franke fears repercussions/law suits in case he comes forward

Anyway, I don't think he has any documents the Spanish authorities do not also have themselves.

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

Does he have enough information to list the two hundred or so athletes that used (prior to 2006) Fuentes services (the information the Spaniards have been desperate to cover up) ?

He claimed to have the complete list on numerous occasions.

Sure, the code AC appears only once in the Guardia Civil report, and it's explicitly identified as being Contador, and considering the other names on this particular document, it wouldn't make sense to be anyone but Contador

Plus in the (partial) german Translation of the report there is this:

As to Contador: "outline my opinion concerning Alberto´s situation"

Highlighted in green: "circular note UCI" - Whatever that meant in 2005/06

 

[TubularBills]

Contador Discovery Shield

Is it possible Contador joined Discovery in 2007 for umbrella protection for the 2006 Puerto allegations.

In light of the most recent cloudburst, it seems highly probable.

Does anyone have salary info, if he signed for low compensation, this (far fetched association) may have been the bonus?

"It was a very crazy Tour, more than I wanted or expected," he said of recent events, then responding to a question about his mention in the original Puerto file. "I was in a bad team at a bad moment, with Liberty and this Astana squad. At the time my name was on this Operación Puerto list but then the UCI changed its mistake. Now I am out of this case."

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road...07/interviews/tour_alberto_contador_stage1907

"...urged on by directeur sportif Johan Bruyneel and team co-owner Lance Armstrong, he kept his composure and rode fast enough to hold on."

 

[webvan]

That's interesting, hadn't thought of it, same theory as Basso possibly...

That link was interesting, not in the least for the ITT summary...at the time he looked like a "normal" climber, slower than ITT specialists...since 2009 it's no longer the case and I'm guessing tomorrow at the Giro it will be the same again. Who can seriously believe in that. The LA years should have opened everone's eyes.

 

[sniper]

From the same article:

An article in Saturday’s LeMonde newspaper reported that he was interviewed by the Puerto judge Antonio Serrano in December 2006 and said then that the didn’t know Eufemiano Fuentes. According to the newspaper, he refused then to undergo a DNA test that would have judged whether or not he had any link to the blood bags that were found in Fuentes’ clinic in May of that year.

He was asked at the post time trial press conference if he would now provide such a sample. "I don't believe this is correct but if I have to do it then I will do it," he answered.
Contador took his first stage win on Stage 14
Photo ©: AFP (Click for larger image)

A journalist later returned to that subject, pointing out that he said that he would do so if he had to provide a sample. "Why not just do it and removed the doubts?" he was asked. "Because I am innocent and I don't have to prove everything to everyone," was his reply. "What do I have to do, give you my blood and my DNA?"

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road...07/interviews/tour_alberto_contador_stage1907

 

[sniper]

Is it possible Contador joined Discovery in 2007 for umbrella protection for the 2006 Puerto allegations. In light of the most recent cloudburst, it seems highly probable.

Does anyone have salary info, if he signed for low compensation, this (far fetched association) may have been the bonus?

"It was a very crazy Tour, more than I wanted or expected," he said of recent events, then responding to a question about his mention in the original Puerto file. "I was in a bad team at a bad moment, with Liberty and this Astana squad. At the time my name was on this Operación Puerto list but then the UCI changed its mistake. Now I am out of this case."

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road...07/interviews/tour_alberto_contador_stage1907

"...urged on by directeur sportif Johan Bruyneel and team co-owner Lance Armstrong, he kept his composure and rode fast enough to hold on."

This is quite revealing stuff. needless to say, this sheds new light on the clen-case and the initial delay.
Though I'm not sure yet what kind of light.

 

[TubularBills]

If one wanted to go way out on the subjective/speculative limb...

it could also explain the remaining 375k in Armstrong associated payoffs to the UCI? Didn't Armstrong receive a 'reminder' about a past due bribe around 2006/07?

The 25k is for Tour de Suisse (2001), The 100k for the Dauphine (2002) and the balance, to clear Contador as his successor.

Recruited to keep the team in the spotlight and secure the Astana takeover the following year...

The plot thickens and the timing seems spot on.

Or perhaps not,

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/sports/02iht-bike.1.7347680.html

"This year, Bruyneel led Alberto Contador, a 24-year-old Spaniard, to victory in the Tour.

Asked if he would attempt to bring Contador with him to Astana if he took the job, Bruyneel was evasive.

"With Discovery Channel ending, everybody without a contract with another team is looking around," he said. "Same for Contador."

Unlike many of his teammates, the Spaniard is on the market because his asking price is believed to be $3 million a year, which would scare off teams without Astana's annual budget of more than $10 million."

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5528

Why Team Astana?

"My decision was fundamentally because of Johan (Bruyneel). He is the director with the most Tour wins and he is fundamental to my race. Also, the important group that is coming from Discovery; riders, technical team and mechanics, all will help me win the Tour."

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/03/tour-de-france/alberto-contadors-doping-timeline_157394

[the comments section also contains some compelling analysis]

First Tour win

"In 2007 riding for a post-Armstrong Discovery team, Contador won his first Tour de France. He inherited — and then defended — the yellow jersey after race leader Michael Rasmussen was pulled from the race by his team. Rasmussen had missed several anti-doping tests prior to the Tour and allegedly lied to the team about his whereabouts.

In 2008, Contador joined Astana, along with Discovery manager Johan Bruyneel. However, as in 2006, doping allegations against others kept Contador from starting the Tour. This time Tour organizers refused to invite Astana because of teammembers’ doping the previous year, most notably Alexander Vinokourov’s positive for blood doping. Despite the new management and riders, Tour owner Amaury Sport Organisation barred Astana from the Tour and other ASO events. [not UCI]

Contador won the Giro d’Italia [coming off the beach with little notice] and the Vuelta a Espana that year, instead.

In 2009, Contador returned to the Tour with Astana (and a surprise new teammate, Lance Armstrong) and won it, his third grand tour win in a row.

That year Contador raised eyebrows with his blazing ascent during stage 15 of the Tour de France. Three-time Tour winner Greg LeMond publicly questioned whether a un-doped rider could go up the Verbier so fast.

In late 2009 the French magazine Le Monde reported that officials had found suspicious medical supplies that Astana disposed of during the 2009 Tour. [I think this is referring to the DNA tainted doping kits which Novitzky might have? - given his meeting with interpol] The supplies included included syringes, perfusions and anti-hypertension medications according to the magazine, but no doping products were found."

And then the subject of this thread and OP, the latest in the Final Chapter? A last attempt by the UCI to protect their gravy train of bribes with suppression?

Not unlikely that the whole house of cards will collapse simultaneously with the tangled web of Contador, Armstrong and Bruyneel intertwined with the UCI at the heart of cycling's lost decade.

 

[sniper]

If (...) decade.[/I][/B]

Great post in connection to your previous.
The idea that LA's and AC's cases are significantly interwoven is thoughtprovoking and not unlikely the way you portray it.

But note that LA really seemed to have hated AC's guts (understatement of the year), which doesn't fully add up to the idea that he 'chose' AC to become his successor.

Could AC's positive have been the result of LA suddenly reaallly disliking AC, and subsequent targeted testing by the UCI?

One way or the other, the role of the UCI in all of this is unbelievable.

 

[TubularBills]

Great post in connection to your previous.
The idea that LA's and AC's cases are significantly interwoven is thoughtprovoking and not unlikely the way you portray it.

But note that LA really seemed to have hated AC's guts (understatement of the year), which doesn't fully add up to the idea that he 'chose' AC to become his successor.

Could AC's positive have been the result of LA suddenly reaallly disliking AC, and subsequent targeted testing by the UCI?

One way or the other, the role of the UCI in all of this is unbelievable.

Perhaps the jealousy and greed evolved over time, as LA realized the Contador had more natural talent. and the ability to quickly threaten his record. Sounded to me like Bruyneel chose his successor and only Astana was able to pay his salary.

In Armstrong's mind there is only room for one 'king of the hill'. Look at the firings and exodus of talent over the years from LA teams.

The hatred didn't begin in earnest until he came out of retirement and they were on the same tour team. That's when he became angry & bitter.

And they call us 'haters'. Ironic really.

What a mess.

LA 'pro' Contador in 2008:

http://www.roadbikeaction.com/Stage...aks-Contador-Should-Be-In-Tour-De-France.html

"Lance Armstrong: Well he should be there because he was implicated in nothing. There were some press rumors around Operation Puerto but there was nothing there. Contador should be there because Astana is a totally different organization than it was last year or two years ago and when Johan Bruyneel took over the Astana team, he had stipulations when he took over that the team would implement internal drug testing from Dr. Rasmus Dammsgard for the (Astana) team. You know, the Tour De France is the best and biggest bike race there is, therefore it deserves to have the best riders, especially when they have nothing impeding them, no suspicions revolving around them. So Alberto Contador deserves to be at the Tour this year. He is the defending champion so I find it a little silly that the #1 (dossard) goes to someone else. The #1 should go to the defending champion of the race. "

LA "hopes it works out" in 2009:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/lance-armstrong-racing-for-astana-18688/

Nikolai Proskurin, the deputy president of oil-rich, ex-Soviet Kazakhstan's cycling federation, said Armstrong would share Astana's leadership with current leader, Spaniard Alberto Contador.

However, Proskurin acknowledged that the return of the cycling hero was causing tensions with Contador, winner of the 2007 Tour de France.

"Currently there's certain tension in the team but I hope we are capable of keeping the situation under control," Proskurin said. "Armstrong will not be the only star, he will be one of the team's leaders."

Armstrong sought to calm matters, praising Contador and saying: "I look forward to racing with him. Alberto is the best rider on the planet right now. We have to understand that, have to respect that. I'm not sure I can ride that fast right now," he said. "I hope it works out."

The wheel comes of the train:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...r-sparks-war-of-the-words-with-armstrong.html

and then plays the complimentary poised leader to elevate his own performance:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32144084/ns/sports-tour_de_france/

 

[sniper]

(...)

hehe. lovely post. great psychological scenario you unfold here.
I wonder if we ever learn how it really went down.
I must say, I'm with LA here.
AC must be one of the more arrogant guys out there. While all his teammates were taken out of competition due to OP, AC somehow managed to escape prosecution. He subsequently must have felt he's the ONE.

LA did indeed always thank his team in elaborate wordings. I never heard AC expressing thanks to his teammates.

 

[inri2000]

From last year at the Tour:

Yet again today, Contador thanked his teammates for a great performance. “The team has done an extraordinary job. Dani (Navarro) and Paolo (Tiralongo) were were brilliant in the mountains."