UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

[martinvickers]

What exactly are you alluding to ? please enlighten us.

The fact that the TUE seems to have been given without full UCI protocol. This is fundamentally an issue about UCI mucking about.

But don't let me stop the giddy. I wouldn't want to spoil the fun.

 

[thehog]

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

Yes and thats the point. I don't think we'll get an explanation for why he needed the drug. Sounds most excessive.

(I don't know how I could be any cleaner?)

 

[Granville57]

The link embedded within that inrng article is quite interesting as well.

The same question was put by Lionel Birnie to Team Sky when Rigoberto Uran needed a TUE during the 2011 Dauphiné, scroll down to Stage 6 to read about what happened.

SATURDAY – Stage 6 Les Gets – Le Collet d’Allevard

The doc is in the hotel’s bar, laptop open, phone pressed to his ear, looking concerned.
Rigoberto Uran has been suffering with breathing difficulties for the past couple of days and Dr Freeman is trying to get a Therapeutic Use Exemption for a drug to treat him.

“It can be very tricky, especially at the weekends,” he says. Yesterday, Dr Freeman contacted the race’s anti-doping doctor and put the case for a TUE. The drug is a steroid that can mimic a corticosteroid in the urine and can be misused.

“Rigo has got a chest problem,” he says. “With most asthma patients, you will never find out specifically what causes it. We’ve tested for pollen and in Rigo’s case it doesn’t appear to be that.

“The ADAMS [World Anti-Doping Agency’s Administration and Management System] website can be tricky. Your worst fear is that you’re stuck in the mountains with no internet connection but we would not give anything that’s on the list to a rider until we had everything confirmed through the proper channels.”

Could he not use the ADAMS hotline and make a phone call? “That works well Monday to Friday but not so well at the weekends,” he says wryly, acknowledging that the onus is always on the athlete and the team doctor to ensure everything is done properly.

It took a few tries but eventually, he got through to Dr Mario Zorzoli of the UCI and gained the necessary permission.

But isn’t there an argument that if Uran is unwell and his breathing is seriously affected, he should pull out of the race? “He may well do that. But he’s an ambitious young man who wants to support Bradley and he wants to secure his Tour team.

“We are not talking about performance-enhancement here. The TUE is designed to enable an athlete to take medication that a normal human being would be prescribed by a doctor. It cannot be right that you and I could go to a doctor and be prescribed something that an athlete with the same condition could not use.”

The bolded part at the end is, I believe, where the slope can get most slippery.

 

[Stingray34]

The link embedded within that inrng article is quite interesting as well.





The bolded part at the end is, I believe, where the slope can get most slippery.

You're right. If you're 25 and have a testosterone deficiency, bad luck: you can't race any more if you want to supplement. Even Lance knew that.

 

[frenchfry]

It asks the question but it does not say they are complicit (Someone with better French might be able to correct me?)

L’AMA enquête
Les corticoïdes sont autorisés en spray mais interdits par voie orale en compétition. L’octroi d’une éventuelle AUT passe par l’avis d’un comité d’experts médicaux. Dans ce cas précis, elle a été validée sur le champ par le seul directeur médical de l’UCI, le Dr Mario Zorzoli. Cet empressement, ou cette légèreté administrative, interroge. Notamment au regard des liens entre le président de l’UCI, Brian Cookson, et l’équipe Sky, qui emploie son fils Olivier. L’Agence mondiale antidopage diligente actuellement une enquête.

WADA is investigating.
Corticoids are authorised in spray form but forbidden in oral form in competition. The obtention of a TUE requires the opinion of a committee of medical experts. In this case, it was validated directly only by the UCI medical director Dr Mario Zorzoli. This eagerness, or administrative casualness, raises questions. Notably with regards to the links between UCI President Brian Cookson and team Sky who employs his son. The world anti-doping agency is actively investigating.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

It then continues

Professional sport is different, there are big issues at stake. Legal advantages to get the job done, be they tramadol or TUEs, are part of this in cycling and many other sports – other French newspapers have been quantifying the amount of cortisone injections (40 a year?) given to Franck Ribéry this week, treatment to play rather than the usual “have a rest

So the article does acknowledge that there are differences in reality.

All said and done this is not a good look for Sky and given their stance (or so called transparency) I can well understand why people are pushing for answers perhaps more so than if it had been another team. Add the fact it is the current Tour de France winner and they only have themselves to blame.

The best thing the UCI could do would be to publish all TUE giving relevant information such as time of request, who authorised it. Doubt we will see this any time soon though.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

WADA is investigating.
Corticoids are authorised in spray form but forbidden in oral form in competition. The obtention of a TUE requires the opinion of a committee of medical experts. In this case, it was validated directly only by the UCI medical director Dr Mario Zorzoli. This eagerness, or administrative casualness, raises questions. Notably with regards to the links between UCI President Brian Cookson and team Sky who employs his son. The world anti-doping agency is actively investigating.

Thanks Frenchfry. I have passable French but with slightly complicated articles I can miss the subtleties.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sorry, forgot youre on the fence.

If on the fence means I'm not passing judgement without knowing for sure, then yes I am.

 

[thehog]

The link embedded within that inrng article is quite interesting as well.





The bolded part at the end is, I believe, where the slope can get most slippery.

There’s also the issue of performance enhancement. Obviously this is why prednisone is banned and its use has to be regulated. There has been plenty of glucocortisteroids steroid abuse in the past and the current system of TUE’s is still open for abuse. Prednisone has a short half life so the timing of its use matters, for example a big dose prior or even during a key mountain stage or time trial could be a boost but use after such an effort and in the event of illness is quite another.

I think when the drug is taken is most important.

Looking at today it appears Froome skipped his 40mg dose out of fear.

Back to the old Dawg

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

The late Dr. Vortex is proud of you im sure. Keep it going, this thread will become unreadable in no time.

And again, you fail to add anything to the conversation.

 

[Will Carter]

This thread is just going to run and run isn't it.

Shoddy from Sky if true, but this is just a newspaper report so far right?

Why is it shoddy from Sky? They followed the right procedure which was to apply for the TUE. If its shoddy from anyone then it would be the UCI, surely?

 

[Fzotrlool]

Froome affected mentally by the recent controversies today?

 

[Will Carter]

emergency TUEs are always granted for exacerbations of asthma:



he is asthmatic, he had a respiratory infection

a respiratory infection in asthmatics can lead to an acute exacerbation of asthma

and acute exacerbations of asthma are no joke, they can send you straight to accident and emergency if badly treated or not treated at all

therefore, athletes with an acute exacerbation of asthma have the right to an emergency TUE, in fact they even have the right to a retroactive TUE if necessary. this is clearly stated in the WADA paperwork

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Science_Medicine/Medical_info_to_support_TUECs/WADA-Medical-info-Asthma-5.0-EN.pdf

so i'm surprised they are making such a fuss about it


... unless this is to do with his status as an asthmatic either not being registered or not having been renewed, which is another story altogether

I make that 3 times you've said this but been ignored by the regulars ...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This needs repeating..... sanity as opposed to Hog referring to Pred as a 'horse steroid' which is just misleading.

Boldenone\Equipoise are horse steroids FYI!

he is asthmatic, he had a respiratory infection

a respiratory infections in asthmatics can lead to an acute exacerbation of asthma.

40mg oral prednisolone once a day for 5 days is the typical treatment for an acute exacerbation of asthma. you see it being prescribed every day to asthmatic patients. i assume the sky doctor got his diploma in the UK.


the article by l'équipe says:
"Christopher Froome aurait utilisé une forte dose de corticoïdes pendant le Tour de Romandie (...)"

this is a gross exaggeration: 40mg is what everybody over the age of 12 gets

emergency TUEs are always granted for exacerbations of asthma:



he is asthmatic, he had a respiratory infection

a respiratory infection in asthmatics can lead to an acute exacerbation of asthma

and acute exacerbations of asthma are no joke, they can send you straight to accident and emergency if badly treated or not treated at all

therefore, athletes with an acute exacerbation of asthma have the right to an emergency TUE, in fact they even have the right to a retroactive TUE if necessary. this is clearly stated in the WADA paperwork

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Science_Medicine/Medical_info_to_support_TUECs/WADA-Medical-info-Asthma-5.0-EN.pdf

so i'm surprised they are making such a fuss about it


... unless this is to do with his status as an asthmatic either not being registered or not having been renewed, which is another story altogether

Short memory much?

After Peters’s interview, Leinders was then interviewed by Richard Freeman, another doctor, who quizzed the Belgian on his medical skills and was impressed. Peters and Freeman recommended Leinders be hired and Brailsford offered a contract that meant he could be asked to work for up to eighty days in 2011. He worked sixty-seven days for Team Sky that year, starting with the Tour of Oman and covering some one-day races in Belgium, the Giro d’Italia and the Vuelta.

He was liked by the riders for his ability and admired by the management for his professionalism. If he treated a rider for an injury he would follow up with phone calls and advice after the race. If the truth and reconciliation movement within cycling was looking for a poster boy, Leinders might have been it. Sky found him in tune with their policies and keen to make a contribution.

Peters insists that Leinders was scrupulously ethical in his time with Sky. ‘We agreed as a team that if a rider, suffering from asthma, got into trouble with pollen we would pull him out of the race rather than apply for a therapeutic use exemption on his behalf.

‘Once, one of our riders was in this situation and the doctor got in touch with me and asked if we could get an exemption because the guy was in a bad way but was very keen to finish the race.
‘Using my discretion, I said “Okay.”
‘It was Geert who rang me afterwards to tell me I was wrong.
‘“We’ve got to have consistency,” he said.

Inside Team Sky, page 72

 

[Will Carter]

The original story in the French press cited the link between Cookson, the UCI and Sky.

So yes there's a problem. Sorry.

You mean the well known fact that his son works there? Thats the son everyone was complaining about being in Colombia at this time?

 

[red_flanders]

As a neutral observer to all this, allow me.

Hog was drawing a comparison to events. The use of the word "moment" being the operative.

LA's backdated TUE for corticosteroids in 1999, which was hurriedly accepted by the UCI, has long been cited as one of the first cracks in the armor surrounding The Myth.

The absence of such an event, as it relates to Sky, has often been used in defense of Sir Brailsford's operation. Some have wondered if, and when, a similar such event would present itself regarding Sky, and if so, in what from would it take, and what might the response/action be?

Hog was drawing a parallel between that '99 incident with Armstrong/UCI, and today's revelation about Froome's apparently-fast-tracked TUE for a corticosteroid.

The "backdated" part of that was only referring to the Armstrong incident.

This current Sky/Froome/Zorzoli mess is being cited as similar to that incident. Hence, this could looked upon as Sky's "backdated" incident. That one, early sign of a crack in the armor.

At least that's I how interpreted it.

Yes, this. How it was twisted is beyond me. Agendas fully in play apparently.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Yes, this. How it was twisted is beyond me. Agendas fully in play apparently.

Opinions in play. What is my agenda if you think there is one?

 

[thehog]

Funny the Dawg drops 30% in performance the day the TUE controversy leaks out.

How's the TUE, Chris?

 

[the sceptic]

Opinions in play. What is my agenda if you think there is one?

your agenda is obvious.

looks like the TUE didnt come in time today. Will Dawg take a quick trip to Tenerife before le tour?

 

[red_flanders]

Short memory much?

So great. We've moved from:

"We agreed as a team that if a rider, suffering from asthma, got into trouble with pollen we would pull him out of the race rather than apply for a therapeutic use exemption on his behalf. "

To:

We'll use the "acute" need clause to get a rider racing who if actually suffering from acute respiratory distress should be on bed rest. Never mind that he proceeded to absolutely smash the field in a preposterous display of power while recovering from this "acute" respiratory issue requiring prednisone.

A believable scenario (rather than the tripe of "acute" respiratory issues) is that Froome was glowing from a full course of whatever he's on and they rushed a TUE for the thing they still found in his system.

 

[red_flanders]

Opinions in play. What is my agenda if you think there is one?

Another response might be "Sorry, I totally misunderstood and didn't get it at all".

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

your agenda is obvious.

looks like the TUE didnt come in time today. Will Dawg take a quick trip to Tenerife before le tour?

When will you ever add anything to the conversation? Even if you add something that people do not agree with it would be something. You just repeat the same thing again and again.

btw What is my agenda?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Another response might be "Sorry, I totally misunderstood and didn't get it at all".

I already replied to Granville. And you still have not really answered my question? What agenda do I have?

 

[thehog]

So great. We've moved from:



To:

We'll use the "acute" need clause to get a rider racing who if actually suffering from acute respiratory distress should be on bed rest. Never mind that he proceeded to absolutely smash the field in a preposterous display of power while recovering from this "acute" respiratory issue requiring prednisone.

A believable scenario (rather than the tripe of "acute" respiratory issues) is that Froome was glowing from a full course of whatever he's on and they rushed a TUE for the thing they still found in his system.

This. +1000.

Tony Martin must shake his head at the whole thing.

 

[Will Carter]

So great. We've moved from:



To:

We'll use the "acute" need clause to get a rider racing who if actually suffering from acute respiratory distress should be on bed rest. Never mind that he proceeded to absolutely smash the field in a preposterous display of power while recovering from this "acute" respiratory issue requiring prednisone.

A believable scenario (rather than the tripe of "acute" respiratory issues) is that Froome was glowing from a full course of whatever he's on and they rushed a TUE for the thing they still found in his system.

The article states the TUE was for Prednisolone, not anything else so it couldn't be used as a cover. And if he was glowing surely it would be safer to pull him from the race?