USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[MarkvW]

You are right and I didn't say that. What I did say is that this is the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Sorry if I came off pedantic.

 

[Deagol]

Sorry if I came off pedantic.

no worries

 

[MarkvW]

Officially, the answer is they are waiting for USADA's documentation. Why another much bigger IOC-blessed federation just enforced the dope-pusher ban out of the same USADA action remains an interesting contrast.

I think they are going to try to void USADA's actions. I could be wrong though. They would need something brilliant so as not to anger the IOC. I've not seen anything resembling brilliance from Pat's office.

Not just "IOC-blessed," but also a member of the UCI. Looks like the French federation is willing to defy the spirit of McQuaid's letters to USADA and USA Cycling.

 

[LauraLyn]

But the UCI is based in Switzerland! Verstehen? Glory, not so much. Decline, not so much. But cuckoo clocks! Ja!!

Il faut dire : Tu comprends?

It is in a French canton. (Apologies for being pedantic as well.)

 

[LauraLyn]

Not just "IOC-blessed," but also a member of the UCI. Looks like the French federation is willing to defy the spirit of McQuaid's letters to USADA and USA Cycling.

Seems more like the FFC and the UCI are aligned when reading the letter. (Could be wrong.)

An important point is that this could be an indication that the ASO is lining up with USADA (as far as Armstrong & Co. goes). This would be a very strong move for USADA.

Still in wait & see mode.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Seems more like the FFC and the UCI are aligned when reading the letter. (Could be wrong.)

I think it seems the FFC is lining up with USADA, not the UCI.

FFC also wants $2.95M Euros back in prize money from Armstrong.

 

[Condorman]

Il faut dire : Tu comprends?

It is in a French canton. (Apologies for being pedantic as well.)

More pedantry from me too, not so much cuckoo clocks but the best watches and movements on earth.

A couple of years ago there was an argument between FFC, ASO and UCI before the TdF, was it over testing? UCI kicked AFLD off the tour ....2009 maybe?

 

[rhubroma]

But the UCI is based in Switzerland! Verstehen? Glory, not so much. Decline, not so much. But cuckoo clocks! Ja!!

Let's not bring Weber into the argument. Let us rather think of Constantine.

 

[MarkvW]

Il faut dire : Tu comprends?

It is in a French canton. (Apologies for being pedantic as well.)

I just had Orson Welles and The Third Man on the brain!

 

[MarkvW]

Seems more like the FFC and the UCI are aligned when reading the letter. (Could be wrong.)

An important point is that this could be an indication that the ASO is lining up with USADA (as far as Armstrong & Co. goes). This would be a very strong move for USADA.

Still in wait & see mode.

I'd bet you were right. I think the UCI may be moving away from McDruggin's position.

 

[python]

this is probably an indication that a world-wide pressure is about to be exerted on the uci NOT to appeal and step aside...or else.

likely the consequence of ffc receiving an unofficial (or draft) reasoned letter that the usada owed to uci, armstrong and wada and that was due last tuesday.

i find the reference to return those fraud-assisted prize money particularly ominous - a nod to aso to sue if the subject refused to do so and.... that the uci may find itself in courts too if it does not go along

Interesting theory. Bums me out if we're not getting to see the reasoned letter (that marks 'victory' for me). It would explain the deployment of Shrill Shill Phil at this time, though.

i'd not argue that my guess is a 'theory' as you said - however, mine was a reasoned and logical projection about the 'reasoned' decision/lettter everyone was awaiting the past tuesday.

i reckoned the usada sent some sympathetic sports organizations (like ffc) a courtesy copy concurrent with the official copies to wada and the uci.

it took ffc a day or 2 to digest the evidence summary from the letter, ring their lawyers and the aso opinion and finally issue the communique.

the time line seems perfect plus the fact the ffc had a chance to speak earlier but did not until the reasoned letter was received.

 

[MarkvW]

i'd not argue that my guess is a 'theory' as you said - however, mine was a reasoned and logical projection about the 'reasoned' decision/lettter everyone was awaiting the past tuesday.

i reckoned the usada sent some sympathetic sports organizations (like ffc) a courtesy copy concurrent with the official copies to wada and the uci.

it took ffc a day or 2 to digest the evidence summary from the letter, ring their lawyers and the aso opinion and finally issue the communique.

the time line seems perfect plus the fact the ffc had a chance to speak earlier but did not until the reasoned letter was received.

I used 'theory' because it is a plausible guess supported by facts and I can't disprove it. Best explanation I've seen so far,

 

[Benotti69]

i'd not argue that my guess is a 'theory' as you said - however, mine was a reasoned and logical projection about the 'reasoned' decision/lettter everyone was awaiting the past tuesday.

i reckoned the usada sent some sympathetic sports organizations (like ffc) a courtesy copy concurrent with the official copies to wada and the uci.

it took ffc a day or 2 to digest the evidence summary from the letter, ring their lawyers and the aso opinion and finally issue the communique.

the time line seems perfect plus the fact the ffc had a chance to speak earlier but did not until the reasoned letter was received.

I agree with you, I guess UCI are in talks with Swiss lawyers, IOC and their own bods trying to find a way out. I guess McQuaid is trying to negotiate his own a$$.

 

[Condorman]

The president of FFC spoke on French TV during the GP de Plouay on Sunday supporting
USADA, pretty much what is said today.

 

[El Oso]

Seems more like the FFC and the UCI are aligned when reading the letter. (Could be wrong.)

An important point is that this could be an indication that the ASO is lining up with USADA (as far as Armstrong & Co. goes). This would be a very strong move for USADA.

Still in wait & see mode.

SCA would be licking their chops with this move. My understanding is that the initial ruling was because doping wasn't a part of the deal, it was merely that Lance had to win the Tour. If ASO does what they did with Riis and leave his name as winner then Lance could argue that he is still the winner and doesn't have to return the money. But once ASO takes his name off the books then SCA should jump all over it.

 

[python]

I agree with you, I guess UCI are in talks with Swiss lawyers, IOC and their own bods trying to find a way out. I guess McQuaid is trying to negotiate his own a$$.

add usada - the captain of the ship and THE king of the castle - to that list

as i mentioned earlier, the uci desperately need the usada to take the evidence of uci's corruption off the table. in return, the uci can promise NOT to appeal and even throw in some freebies like the promise NOT to charge with doping the usada witnesses (beyond usada's own arrangements) and even give usada access to armstrong's test data usada ask for and so far was denied.

i've sat on several corporate boards as a technical/science man and witnessed the deals like that all the time.

 

[poupou]

More pedantry from me too, not so much cuckoo clocks but the best watches and movements on earth.

I can do better than that : the swiss cuckoo clocks are a copy of the famous cuckoo clocks from Black Forest (Schwarzwald ) !

 

[ChewbaccaD]

The president of FFC spoke on French TV during the GP de Plouay on Sunday supporting
USADA, pretty much what is said today.

Interesting how the US Federation is so much less supportive...hmmm...wonder if there is a complicity on their part keeping them from being more supportive?

 

[Benotti69]

add usada - the captain of the ship and THE king of the castle - to that list

as i mentioned earlier, the uci desperately need the usada to take the evidence of uci's corruption off the table. in return, the uci can promise NOT to appeal and even throw in some freebies like the promise NOT to charge with doping the usada witnesses (beyond usada's own arrangements) and even give usada access to armstrong's test data usada ask for and so far was denied.

i've sat on several corporate boards as a technical/science man and witnessed the deals like that all the time.

I really hope they are negotiating the end of McQuaid and an acceptance of USADA stripping Wonderboy.

If UCI isnt forced to change it will mean the sport will still be dirty for the foreseable future.

 

[Deagol]

this may have been posted prior, but interview with "Richard" Pound
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/pound-armstrong-foiled-by-made-in-usa-probe_236602

 

[ToreBear]

add usada - the captain of the ship and THE king of the castle - to that list

as i mentioned earlier, the uci desperately need the usada to take the evidence of uci's corruption off the table. in return, the uci can promise NOT to appeal and even throw in some freebies like the promise NOT to charge with doping the usada witnesses (beyond usada's own arrangements) and even give usada access to armstrong's test data usada ask for and so far was denied.

i've sat on several corporate boards as a technical/science man and witnessed the deals like that all the time.

I don't see USADA willing to deal. Their goal IIRC was going after facilitators. If the stories are true, what more valuable doping facilitators than those in the UCI itself? Lance is a done deal. Wada has spoken. They can appeal to CAS over witnesses, but that would be a very public affair.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Just out of curiosity.. Are test examples of Lance's blood stored somewhere? I mean, surely technology will catch up what appeared to be negatives and turn them into postive tests for doping in the future, eh?

 

[python]

I don't see USADA willing to deal. Their goal IIRC was going after facilitators. If the stories are true, what more valuable doping facilitators than those in the UCI itself? Lance is a done deal. Wada has spoken. They can appeal to CAS over witnesses, but that would be a very public affair.

i agree, the likelihood of a usada-uci deal is a remote one.

but it does not mean the uci wont seek one or that some 3d parties wont attempt to broker one.

a lot depends on politics and, in my assessment, the strength and resolve of wada's support for usada. so far, there is no reason to believe that wada wavered.

another factor here is this - at the end of the day, usada is not chartered to change corrupt leadership of any international federation. it would be too ambitious of a goal for their $15 million dollar budget.

 

[JA.Tri]

i agree, the likelihood of a usada-uci deal is a remote one.

but it does not mean the uci wont seek one or that some 3d parties wont attempt to broker one.

a lot depends on politics and, in my assessment, the strength and resolve of wada's support for usada. so far, there is no reason to believe that wada wavered.

another factor here is this - at the end of the day, usada is not chartered to change corrupt leadership of any international federation. it would be too ambitious of a goal for their $15 million dollar budget.

While not USADAs role ...I do not see them doing anything to facilitate a UCI coverup.

 

[sittingbison]

... as it wears on we will see more defiant and outlandish behavior from mr Armstrong...

Lance is a sociopath, he is incapable of acting rationally