USADA - Armstrong

[Epicycle]

Don't hold your breath. Meet the new stooge; same as the old stooge.

Yeah I know how it works.

In 2005, when Hein was wrapping up his final term there was at least one real alternative candidate. That freaked out Hein so he went on a campaign blitz to support McQuaid, which is an unethical thing for a sitting president to do. It also seems like Verbruggen was able to switch out some voting delegates so the other candidates wouldn't know who to contact to campaign. Basically Hein did all he could to stack the deck in his favor. Then, to take it even farther, Hein secretly entered his name as a candidate in case McQuaid got ill or died before the election (true story). Hein had to keep a stranglehold on the UCI at all cost.

It's got to stop someday though, so we can dream. There have been ethical people in UCI management, they do exist. But they've just been run over and pushed out by Hein and Pat.

 

[Merckx index]

In a thread I started in the General forum, there is a discussion of underage sexual abuse of swimmers by several coaches, apparently known and covered up by the leaders of USA Swimming. In this latest article by the journalist covering this story, the actions of USA Swimming as described by him seem possibly relevant to the USADA/UCI conflict over LA’s case:

USA Swimming has again proven their ineptitude as they are apparently unfamiliar with the Ted Stevens Sports Act”, says Allard [an attorney representing one of the abused swimmers]. “The due process provisions of the Sports Act only apply to coaches, athletes, and officials with regard to the right to compete and participate in protected competition. The Sports Act, however, does not provide National Governing Bodies such as USA Swimming with the unrestricted right to approve and revoke membership.

“Here, with regard to Mr. Curl [a coach accused of abuse], an ‘emergency hearing’ was set, thus triggering application of section 405.4, which provides if a hearing is ordered, the NBOR [National Board of Review] ‘shall conduct the hearing’ and publish its results within 21 days. Even though the NBOR here had no discretion but to conduct a hearing, one was not conducted. Simply stated, the applicable rules were not followed. Once again, USA Swimming has made up its own rules as it went along.

http://www.wbal.com/article/92654/12/template-story/Hypocrisy-Runs-Dangerously-Amok-At-USA-Swimming

The NBOR is supposed to play a role here somewhat like USADA, or more precisely, like the panel chosen for a USADA arbitration hearing. From an interview with the Athlete Protection Officer of USA Swimming:

After I receive and review the complaint, the information is handed over to a third-party investigator for further investigation. If the complaint is found to have merit, the National Board of Review (NBOR) takes action. The NBOR is a three-person panel made up of volunteer members, including one athlete member. The NBOR convenes a hearing and hands down a decision. If the panel finds that the member violated the Code of Conduct, that member has 30 days to appeal the decision. In the absence of a successful appeal, the greatest penalty that can be imposed by USA Swimming is suspension for life from our membership. In that case, the individual is added to the Suspended for Life list, which has been made public on our website.

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/USA/28043.asp

A complaint against someone, in this context, is much like a non-analytical doping allegation. And just as the latter leads to a USADA investigation and if warranted, filing of charges, and a hearing that may result in suspension of the athlete, the complaint is supposed to lead to a review by the NBOR. But USA Swimming apparently blocked this hearing, or in some other manner circumvented the normal process, just as UCI is trying to do with USADA. USA Swimming seems intent on protecting Curl, just as UCI seems intent on protecting Armstrong.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

...

So in short, does USADA have jurisdication in the LA case. I am confused by the 6000 page thread now.

 

[BotanyBay]

I bet the UCI is trading in that urine tester Lance gave them for a paper shredder.

No need. They're in Switzerland. They're virtually untouchable according to Swiss law. That's why almost all of the WW sports federations (including the IOC) are coincidentally based in Switzerland. No external agency can compel them to reveal ANYTHING corruption-related. This is why Pat & co. can be so bold in this case, as they known damn well that they're immune to almost everything except rhetoric.

And Pat never really cared about his reputation as the IOC will likely (eventually) be proven to be almost (if not just as) corrupt as the UCI.

 

[Benotti69]

No need. They're in Switzerland. They're virtually untouchable according to Swiss law. That's why almost all of the WW sports federations (including the IOC) are coincidentally based in Switzerland. No external agency can compel them to reveal ANYTHING corruption-related. This is why Pat & co. can be so bold in this case, as they known damn well that they're immune to almost everything except rhetoric.

And Pat never really cared about his reputation as the IOC will likely (eventually) be proven to be almost (if not just as) corrupt as the UCI.

And it is a great place to bank

 

[BotanyBay]

So in short, does USADA have jurisdication in the LA case. I am confused by the 6000 page thread now.

Absolutely:

1) Lance and his agent helped draft the rules that GIVE them jurisdiction.

2) Lance accepted their jurisdiction every time he took out a racing license with USAC. He's also been on-record numerous times essentially confirming their right to adjudicate such situations.

 

[BotanyBay]

Anna Zimmerman has come up with a highly counterintuitive explanation of UCI's demand to take over the case. Though it seems unlikely to me (and to her, I think), it certainly throws another wrinkle into the case:

She's over-thinking this case. USADA has built a case against the UCI, but they're going to use Lance's body as a drop-cloth between their ultra-heavy steam-roller drums and the UCI.

 

[Benotti69]

She's over-thinking this case. USADA has built a case against the UCI, but they're going to use Lance's body as a drop-cloth between their ultra-heavy steam-roller drums and the UCI.

They cant touch UCI, but they can lay it all out how they have used the sport in the most corrupt manner possible for their own ends and also to the benefit of Lance and to the detriment of others.

McQuaid/Verbrughen will look like the scum they are.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Absolutely:

1) Lance and his agent helped draft the rules that GIVE them jurisdiction.

2) Lance accepted their jurisdiction every time he took out a racing license with USAC. He's also been on-record numerous times essentially confirming their right to adjudicate such situations.

... and UCI can´t prevent them from going on? (outside of extreme happenings like Tygart or all witnesses are assasinated)

 

[sniper]

Verbruggen, honorary member of the IOC.

Need I say more.

 

[MarkvW]

They cant touch UCI, but they can lay it all out how they have used the sport in the most corrupt manner possible for their own ends and also to the benefit of Lance and to the detriment of others.

McQuaid/Verbrughen will look like the scum they are.

That's just silly. The most USADA has regarding USADA corruption are statements from USPS riders and perhaps ignored blood evidence in Armstrong's case.

 

[python]

anna zimmerman ideas are plain dumb.

if the uci, as she implied, was aware of the strength of usada's evidence and was driven by the desire to receive financial rewards from convicting and fining armstrong, the easiest and most natural thing to do would be to join the usada and declare a victory.

there must be something besides the publicly known corruption facts that the uci is afraid will become public...i would not exclude a fully positive urine sample
from the past retested by the ucla lab or more financial shenanigans discovered during novi's investigation.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Absolutely:

1) Lance and his agent helped draft the rules that GIVE them jurisdiction.

2) Lance accepted their jurisdiction every time he took out a racing license with USAC. He's also been on-record numerous times essentially confirming their right to adjudicate such situations.

Whew!
It's taken me forever to catch up today.....

thank you Botany....it does begin to get muddled after awhile.
I like the clear and concise....

 

[BotanyBay]

They cant touch UCI, but they can lay it all out how they have used the sport in the most corrupt manner possible for their own ends and also to the benefit of Lance and to the detriment of others.

McQuaid/Verbrughen will look like the scum they are.

No doubt about that. Apply the domino theory here. Lance's laundry will finally be aired. Then the UCI's. And that will either force the Hein (and the IOC) to throw cycling under the bus, or rush to their (not "our") rescue and subject both of them to the same reputation-thrashing.

"Five to one, baby. One in five. No one here gets out alive"
- Jim Morrison

 

[BotanyBay]

... and UCI can´t prevent them from going on? (outside of extreme happenings like Tygart or all witnesses are assasinated)

The UCI can write letters that Lance's lawyers present to the court, but the arguments brought forth have to be from Lance's team.

The UCI doesn't have a dog in this race, so to speak. It's not their race. It's Lance's race.

Lance is working outside of the sport's process to force the US judicial system to intervene and declare it all illegal. Unless the federal judge decides to intervene, the USADA will be free to go forth with the process.

It looks like we have a fundamental breakdown in our sport now. The UCI has deliberately declared an unwillingness to abide by the same process that they've allowed numerous others to be subjected to. It will probably require a grass roots effort by the rank and file members of national sports bodies (such as USAC) to take back the sport.

Or, we can abandon ship and start anew. I suspect that's what this will ultimately come down to. USADA will win, but USAC and the UCI will "Go Rogue" and reveal themselves as the bloody dictators they already happen to actually be.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

"Five to one, baby. One in five. No one here gets out alive"
- Jim Morrison

Which song?

... and thanks for the infos.

 

[Benotti69]

Which song?

... and thanks for the infos.

"The old get old
And the young get stronger
May take a week
And it may take longer
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
We're takin' over
Come on! "

 

[BotanyBay]

Which song?

... and thanks for the infos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHhqV_QhzE

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

"The old get old
And the young get stronger
May take a week
And it may take longer
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah
We're takin' over
Come on! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHhqV_QhzE

Yeah great. He should be a clinic hero for all the hard stuff he took. "get together one more time... "

 

[BotanyBay]

By the way, Tygart needs to stop behaving like former WADA head, Richard Pound. He needs to use terms like "allegedly" until his agency's process play's out. Pound eventually lost credibility and support by giving the appearance of impropriety. Tygart has been drifting more and more into Richard's style of communication.

Travis, give Richard Pound a call sometime and pick his brain on how to better deal with the media.

 

[BroDeal]

there must be something besides the publicly known corruption facts that the uci is afraid will become public...i would not exclude a fully positive urine sample
from the past retested by the ucla lab or more financial shenanigans discovered during novi's investigation.

I will bet it involves money. These guys run the UCI for their own financial benefit and Armstrong was in a position to dole out the bucks, either directly or with sweetheart deals.

 

[sniper]

By the way, Tygart needs to stop behaving like former WADA head, Richard Pound. He needs to use terms like "allegedly" until his agency's process play's out. Pound eventually lost credibility and support by giving the appearance of impropriety. Tygart has been drifting more and more into Richard's style of communication.

Travis, give Richard Pound a call sometime and pick his brain on how to better deal with the media.

true.

Travis is either very sure of his case, or slightly overplaying his cards verbally.
Let's hope it's the former.

 

[mastersracer]

By the way, Tygart needs to stop behaving like former WADA head, Richard Pound. He needs to use terms like "allegedly" until his agency's process play's out. Pound eventually lost credibility and support by giving the appearance of impropriety. Tygart has been drifting more and more into Richard's style of communication.

Travis, give Richard Pound a call sometime and pick his brain on how to better deal with the media.

A panel has already decided there is sufficient evidence to bring charges against LA. Ferrari and 2 others did not contest that decision, and so received lifetime bans. Tygart does not need to maintain this presumption of innocence (though the arbitration panel would).

 

[BotanyBay]

I will bet it involves money. These guys run the UCI for their own financial benefit and Armstrong was in a position to dole out the bucks, either directly or with sweetheart deals.

Lance, Pat & Hein actually tried to buy the Tour de France a few years back. These guys are business partners. Lance was like Michael Jordan trying to buy an NBA team. But he needed the commish on his side to be able to do that.

This is business partners trying to save each other.

 

[BotanyBay]

A panel has already decided there is sufficient evidence to bring charges against LA. Ferrari and 2 others did not contest that decision, and so received lifetime bans. Tygart does not need to maintain this presumption of innocence (though the arbitration panel would).

He does if he wants to keep legislators off his back, as Americans tend to savor due process. One must keep the appearance of propriety active at all times if you're the leader of the agency. That's my view.

Perhaps he needs to appoint a spokesperson that represents the prosecutorial side of the agency and then he (Travis) can talk only about the agency as a whole, holding comment on certain aspects.

Tygart has a Pound-like PR problem. Pound eventually lost his battle.