Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Rollthedice]

You do know that it's a discussion thread, not the old appreciation thread? Hopefully it's allowed to post more than just praise in such a thread.

All is fine if some should really stop trolling. There is quite a difference between debating the quality, performance and career of this rider and bashing or ridiculing him just to get a reaction from people who like him.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

When was the last time I did that?

no idea, point is?

 

[Netserk]

no idea, point is?

Perhaps you could save your whining for someone else then?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Perhaps you could save your whining for someone else then?

Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
You do know that it's a discussion thread, not the old appreciation thread? Hopefully it's allowed to post more than just praise in such a thread.

Isn' this a general notion?
If not I missunderstood you. But if it is then it should be obvious that my point was also that this is a normal answer people come with not only in the Nibbles, but also in the AC thread...

 

[SafeBet]

You do know that it's a discussion thread, not the old appreciation thread? Hopefully it's allowed to post more than just praise in such a thread.

Discussing the same issue for months is worthless. You won't go anywhere anyhow. It's not even a discussion, more of a soap opera where every character plays a role and keeps saying the same predictable lines over and over again.

 

[Carols]

That's why it's much better to say disrespectful things to some of the posters.

Only if you like being banned......

 

[BlurryVII]

Nibali was stronger on cobbles than Contador.

And see, that's the difference between real cycling fans, like the ones who cheer Contador in Italy, and hyenas. Who do nothing but talk down wins of riders who happen not to be their favorites. Then it's lotteries they have won, luck, profited from the team who did all the work on cobbles, etc etc. Pretty classless stuff.

You are obviously a hyena. (With all my apologies to the real hyenas, who actually get a bad rep)

But anyway, humor me: A quote for this:

"Nibali fans think Nibali was stronger because he got 2'30" minutes in a lottery."

Still the truth. Nibali just took advantage of all the teams who pulled ahead when Contador was paralysed on his bike behind, then his teammates pretty much did ALL the work for him. There's nothing out of the ordinary about his performance, people are just getting excited because of the combo Cobble + extreme conditions + time lost by AC.
In fact Nibali didn't gain these 2 min 30 on his own. Deal with it.

Get through your head that what happened that day was irrelevant to what was going to happen in the mountains.

 

[BlurryVII]

Randomness = Nibali being ridiculously strong and gaining minuts on his opponents?

Ridiculously strong? By following Fuglsang and other teams?



No rain and the scenario would have been totally different. That's why I talk about randomness.

 

[Jspear]

Nibali was stronger on cobbles than Contador.

And see, that's the difference between real cycling fans, like the ones who cheer Contador in Italy, and hyenas. Who do nothing but talk down wins of riders who happen not to be their favorites. Then it's lotteries they have won, luck, profited from the team who did all the work on cobbles, etc etc. Pretty classless stuff.

You are obviously a hyena. (With all my apologies to the real hyenas, who actually get a bad rep)

But anyway, humor me: A quote for this:

"Nibali fans think Nibali was stronger because he got 2'30" minutes in a lottery."

Just curious: what does it mean to be a hyena?

 

[escheator]

Nibali just took advantage of all the teams who pulled ahead when Contador was paralysed on his bike behind, then his teammates pretty much did ALL the work for him. There's nothing out of the ordinary about his performance, people are just getting excited because of the combo Cobble + extreme conditions + time lost by AC.

I don't understand. If it was so easy, why AC didn't do it as well? And yes, it was random and it was awesome (except for Froome abandoning).

In fact Nibali didn't gain these 2 min 30 on his own. Deal with it.

Yeah, that's what domestiques are for, right? For Tinkoff-Saxo everyone says that they had super strong team and that they would totally demolish Nibali in the mountains. It's not like AC would attack solo from the gun Would you detract from his victories in the mountains just because he used his teammates?

 

[TANK91]

Just curious: what does it mean to be a hyena?

Means you eat people alive, haha.

 

[BlurryVII]

I don't understand. If it was so easy, why AC didn't do it as well? And yes, it was random and it was awesome (except for Froome abandoning).

Rain. Rain my friend, He was reluctant to take any risk for fear of crashing.
As I said, no rain and AC would have never lost time, or certainly not as much as he did.

Yeah, that's what domestiques are for, right? For Tinkoff-Saxo everyone says that they had super strong team and that they would totally demolish Nibali in the mountains. It's not like AC would attack solo from the gun Would you detract from his victories in the mountains just because he used his teammates?

Thing is: I can't stand ignorant fans who are claiming that Nibali was the strongest before AC's crash. Their argument? he showed it on stage 2 (attack on the flat, 2 seconds gained ) and supposedly on stage 5 where he pretty much cheelsucked all the wheels he could find on the way and did nothing on his own.
This is where the TDF ended for Nibali fans, from that day, there was no way he would have lost the Tour.


AC would have used his team to set up an infernal pace from far out but to finish off the work by himself being the strongest climber.
That was actually the plan on the Planche des Belles filles stage. TCS was about to blow up the race after the descent AC crashed.

 

[Afrank]

Speaking with the wisdom (?) of age it is distressing to see fans of one or the other behave like 12 year olds, hurling taunts back and forth. There is more to cycling than these 2 riders and this back and forth denigration of the unfavored one is just plain silly IMO.

There is no need to say disrespectful things about another rider. It does not elevate your favorite in any way.

Both Nibali and Contador have shown themselves to be champions. I appreciate both of them. Not equally, but I appreciate a good bike rider when I see one...well maybe not sprinters so much .

Anyway this behavior only serves to ruin 2 threads! Isn't there a Nibs vs. AC thread? Why not go do your bickering there? It would be much appreciated .

Signed aged old woman who just wants to discuss cycling .

Yes, yes, yes, and YES! Could not agree more.

Mod +1 to the bolded. So let's cut out the personal attacks and insults and argue rationally with each other.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Still the truth. Nibali just took advantage of all the teams who pulled ahead when Contador was paralysed on his bike behind, then his teammates pretty much did ALL the work for him. There's nothing out of the ordinary about his performance, people are just getting excited because of the combo Cobble + extreme conditions + time lost by AC.
In fact Nibali didn't gain these 2 min 30 on his own. Deal with it.

Get through your head that what happened that day was irrelevant to what was going to happen in the mountains.

If it's that easy, why didn't Contador just follow Nibali then? After all it seems it's incredibly easy to ride on pavé if you just follow others. Or maybe it's only following Fuglsang that's easy, maybe you could clarify that point. And how was the tactic for Contador exactly? He rides and his team mates follow him? Great ride then, but still 2'30" behind Nibali, who just had the much more sensible tactic in that case. Don't pace your team mates, let them pace you. Or maybe Contador, having a working brain, was on the wheel of Bennati quite a lot? Then well, he didn't limit his loss to 2'30" on his own, deal with it....

And of course what happened was very relevant for what was going to happen later if Contador didn't crash out. Contador and Nibali with the same time, or Nibali with 2'30" advantage over Contador will change the way both Contador and Nibali ride quite a lot. Unless Contador or Nibali are as dumb as you, which I seriously doubt.

And people are getting excited, because Nibali dropped Cancellara and Sagan as well. They didn't know about the Fuglsang tactic either it seems, just follow him and you're in front. Anyway, since when is it a negative to have a strong team? And takes away from the achievement? You yourself wrote: " now imagine peak contador blowing up the race from far out with the team he had. " But but but but.... he would have just been following wheels!!!! Different thing because it's not Fuglsang? Or Westra?

And in dry conditions there would have been 2 pavé sectors more. Who says Nibali wouldn't have gained even more time then?

Result: Nibali won 2'30" on Contador. Deal with it.

 

[Afrank]

Still the truth. Nibali just took advantage of all the teams who pulled ahead when Contador was paralysed on his bike behind, then his teammates pretty much did ALL the work for him. There's nothing out of the ordinary about his performance, people are just getting excited because of the combo Cobble + extreme conditions + time lost by AC.
In fact Nibali didn't gain these 2 min 30 on his own. Deal with it.

Get through your head that what happened that day was irrelevant to what was going to happen in the mountains.

It's not true that his teammates did all the work. Nibali was doing plenty of work himself and rotating through as well. It was also him that made the move that got him and Fugs a gap on Cancellara, Sagan, and others. He gained the 2:30 through some very strong riding and smart tactics.

Performance on the cobbles may not mean much to what would happen on the climbs (it does show Nibs was in form and ready for the race, which was uncertain heading into it) but it is relevant to the whole race overall. Which means more IMO.

 

[BlurryVII]

I don't understand. If it was so easy, why AC didn't do it as well? And yes, it was random and it was awesome (except for Froome abandoning).

Rain. AC just wouldn't take any risk being in great shape, he slowed down several time for fear of crashing.

Dry weather, he would've gone full out and wouldn't have lost any time or certainly not as much as he did.

Yeah, that's what domestiques are for, right? For Tinkoff-Saxo everyone says that they had super strong team and that they would totally demolish Nibali in the mountains. It's not like AC would attack solo from the gun Would you detract from his victories in the mountains just because he used his teammates?

Thing is: I can't stand ignorant fans who are claiming that Nibali was the strongest before AC's crash. Their argument? he showed it on stage 2 (attack on the flat, 2 seconds gained ) and supposedly on stage 5 where he pretty much wheelsucked everything he could find on the way and basically did nothing on his own.
This is where the TDF ended for Nibali fans, from that day, there was no way he would have lost the Tour. He showed his greatness


AC would use his team to set up an infernal pace from far out but to finish off the work by himself being the strongest climber.
That was actually the plan on the Planche des Belles filles stage. TCS was about to blow up the race after the descent AC crashed.

 

[BlurryVII]

And how was the tactic for Contador exactly? He rides and his team mates follow him? Great ride then, but still 2'30" behind Nibali, who just had the much more sensible tactic in that case. Don't pace your team mates, let them pace you. Or maybe Contador, having a working brain, was on the wheel of Bennati quite a lot? Then well, he didn't limit his loss to 2'30" on his own, deal with it....

And of course what happened was very relevant for what was going to happen later if Contador didn't crash out. Contador and Nibali with the same time, or Nibali with 2'30" advantage over Contador will change the way both Contador and Nibali ride quite a lot.

2- And people are getting excited, because Nibali dropped Cancellara and Sagan as well. They didn't know about the Fuglsang tactic either it seems, just follow him and you're in front. Anyway, since when is it a negative to have a strong team? And takes away from the achievement? You yourself wrote: " now imagine peak contador blowing up the race from far out with the team he had. " But but but but.... he would have just been following wheels!!!! Different thing because it's not Fuglsang? Or Westra?

And in dry conditions there would have been 2 pavé sectors more. Who says Nibali wouldn't have gained even more time then?

Result: Nibali won 2'30" on Contador. Deal with it.

Nibali's tactical sense was just to ride in front. Congratulations.
As for Contador's time loss, already explained it, got worse with the mecanical problem he had in the last kilemeters, he would have finished under 2 minutes.

Dropping Cancellara and Sagan? They were just watching each other, and not really giving a damn about the Astana duo.

you yourself wrote "now imagine peak contador blowing up the race from far out with the team he had. " But but but but.... he would have just been following wheels!!!! Different thing because it's not Fuglsang? Or Westra?

AC following his teammates to the finish line in the mountains? Do you even make sense? He is no Nibali to finish right up Fuglsang's ***.


Dry conditions? Do you realise that AC lost time because of the wet cobbles? He wasn't pedalling anymore, if it was dry, it would have been a totally different race.

PS: Thanks for the "Hyenas - Dumb - Dumb - stupid" .. I'll end up playing the insult game as well if you keep this up.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Now you want to insult me? Just because I found the right words to describe you?

And now Contador wasn't pedalling? Wrong tactic too, sorry. What was he doing, getting pushed, had a motor?

But ok, let's try something else. Has Nibali EVER done anything good? Great even? His cobble ride was nothing worth mentioning it seems (But still got him 2'30") Or if nothing for Nibali, any other rider than Contador? I realize your thinking capability is pretty limited, but maybe you manage to find something?

 

[Afrank]

Now you want to insult me? Just because I found the right words to describe you?

But ok, let's try something else. Has Nibali EVER done anything good? Great even? His cobble ride was nothing worth mentioning it seems (But still got him 2'30") Or if nothing for Nibali, any other rider than Contador? I realize your thinking capability is pretty limited, but maybe you manage to find something?

Umm...did you not read my post, or read it and decide to ignore it? I'll highlight the important part.

Yes, yes, yes, and YES! Could not agree more.

Mod +1 to the bolded. So let's cut out the personal attacks and insults and argue rationally with each other.

PS: Thanks for the "Hyenas - Dumb - Dumb - stupid" .. I'll end up playing the insult game as well if you keep this up.

Or both parties can not play the insult game anymore altogether and we can debate rationally and be friends. Let's do that.

 

[Pentacycle]

Ridiculously strong? By following Fuglsang and other teams?



No rain and the scenario would have been totally different. That's why I talk about randomness.

And Fuglsang also rode like a beast during that stage, Astana was at another level that day.

It was not like Contador or any other GC rider could've kept their pace under those conditions. Some conditions are random, but should not be used as an excuse.

 

[BlurryVII]

Now you want to insult me? Just because I found the right words to describe you?

And now Contador wasn't pedalling? Wrong tactic too, sorry. What was he doing, getting pushed, had a motor?

But ok, let's try something else. Has Nibali EVER done anything good? Great even? His cobble ride was nothing worth mentioning it seems (But still got him 2'30") Or if nothing for Nibali, any other rider than Contador? I realize your thinking capability is pretty limited, but maybe you manage to find something?

Ah! Didn't know about your blindness. If you couldn't see AC was almost not pedalling in the first / second cobbles sector then you have some serious problems. Perhaps, you talking about something you didn't even watch?

What you don't understand, is that Nibali's cobbles ride is used as an argument by some (not all) to claim that he was the strongest/ was dominating before CF and AC 's crash all the same.

Props to Nibali for his risk taking, but it doesn't go further than that. As AFrank said, it showed he was in good form, but the Tour had just begun.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Debate rationally? It takes 2 BlurryVII isn't able, so that option is out.

And be friends?
Why would I want to be friends with a blurry mind like BlurryVII? Mmh, how does the blurryness develop, was BlurryI even blurrier and it gets better with each generation or is it the opposite?

That leaves the other option, the ban. BTW the blurry mind hasn't insulted yet, so he should be allowed to stay. But maybe you guys should think about a "respect to riders" rule outside the clinic....

BTW, don't think "but maybe you manage to find something?" is really all that insulting Too much bolding. But no problem, don't mind a ban really, better be banned than not insult the blurry hyena as Shakespeare said.

 

[LaFlorecita]

STOP the insults. FFS.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Ah! Didn't know about your blindness. If you couldn't see AC was almost not pedalling in the first / second cobbles sector then you have some serious problems. Perhaps, you talking about something you didn't even watch?

What you don't understand, is that Nibali's cobbles ride is used as an argument by some (not all) to claim that he was the strongest/ was dominating before CF and AC 's crash all the same.

Props to Nibali for his risk taking, but it doesn't go further than that. As AFrank said, it showed he was in good form, but the Tour had just begun.

So now Contador was pedalling again? Why don't you make your "mind" up? Not pedalling, almost not pedalling, which one is it? And how is "not pedalling" a good explanation for anything in a bike race?

What you don't understand is that he indeed was dominating up to that point. And was the strongest of the contenders in the pavé stage. Maybe Péraud could have been close, but he punctured at least twice (but don't really remember where he was when it happened the first time)

Maybe you can manage to find (note to Afrank, not meant in an insulting way, but you should find enough other material) a situation where Nibali didn't only take risks but rode well too?

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

STOP the insults. FFS.

Oh, poor little sensible soul! So hurt by insults. How about showing some respect to riders instead of being such a cute little sensible soul when some bad word like hyena are used not to describe a rider, but a POSTER.
Hypocrite