Vinokourov 2010

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Vino, if you are doping, and you go (+) again, I think you should be shot. But otherwise, awesome win!

Why don't you throw stones from your glass house in the clinic.

 

[joe_papp]

Why don't you throw stones from your glass house in the clinic.

Whoop! Right over the head. I'm not throwing stones, I'm reveling in Vino's awesome win, and Contador's selfless riding on behalf of his teammate to set him up to escape the group!

 

[thehog]

Whoop! Right over the head. I'm not throwing stones, I'm reveling in Vino's awesome win, and Contador's selfless riding on behalf of his teammate to set him up to escape the group!

“I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” Vinokourov said Sunday. “I always had class as a rider and I worked very hard during my two years’ ban to be able to come back and be productive at a high level. Last year, I was already winning races and this year I am even better. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. We are here to talk about my victory. I paid two years and now I want to show I can win without doping.”
Most journalists during Vinokourov’s post-race press conference were more interested in his doping past than in his recent racing success. Vinokourov defended himself against media inquiries, especially one pointed question on whether fans or journalists should trust him.
“I am a fair winner of this race today. I am here to win back the trust of the press and the public,” he said. “After 2007, I was stopped two years for doping, two years that were very hard for me. I am here without doping and to show that I can win big races. I have worked hard and people can have confidence in me. I also have my experience. I have worked very hard to return to good condition. Today is a beautiful revenge for me.”

 

[joe_papp]

“I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” Vinokourov said Sunday. “I always had class as a rider and I worked very hard during my two years’ ban to be able to come back and be productive at a high level. Last year, I was already winning races and this year I am even better. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. We are here to talk about my victory. I paid two years and now I want to show I can win without doping.”
Most journalists during Vinokourov’s post-race press conference were more interested in his doping past than in his recent racing success. Vinokourov defended himself against media inquiries, especially one pointed question on whether fans or journalists should trust him.
“I am a fair winner of this race today. I am here to win back the trust of the press and the public,” he said. “After 2007, I was stopped two years for doping, two years that were very hard for me. I am here without doping and to show that I can win big races. I have worked hard and people can have confidence in me. I also have my experience. I have worked very hard to return to good condition. Today is a beautiful revenge for me.”

+1 Bravo for Vino!

 

[flicker]

“I condemn doping and I am working hard to prove that my victories are clean,” Vinokourov said Sunday. “I always had class as a rider and I worked very hard during my two years’ ban to be able to come back and be productive at a high level. Last year, I was already winning races and this year I am even better. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. We are here to talk about my victory. I paid two years and now I want to show I can win without doping.”
Most journalists during Vinokourov’s post-race press conference were more interested in his doping past than in his recent racing success. Vinokourov defended himself against media inquiries, especially one pointed question on whether fans or journalists should trust him.
“I am a fair winner of this race today. I am here to win back the trust of the press and the public,” he said. “After 2007, I was stopped two years for doping, two years that were very hard for me. I am here without doping and to show that I can win big races. I have worked hard and people can have confidence in me. I also have my experience. I have worked very hard to return to good condition. Today is a beautiful revenge for me.”

Who wrote that speach o drivel by Vino. Sounds like Armstrong to me are his Kazak attorneys paraphrasing Lord Armstrong?

Lord Armstrong banned himself for 2 years.

 

[luckyboy]

"Today is a beautiful revenge for me."

Revenge on who?! The testers who caught him? The clean riders he cheated?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Revenge on who?! The testers who caught him? The clean riders he cheated?

Can't be the last one. The clean riders were racing in the Tour de Tooth Fairy p/b the Easter Bunny.

 

[luckyboy]

You think every rider is doped?

 

[Swingtop]

Good on you, Vino! You did your time, now once again, you show them how to win. Very nice victory and an impressive comeback this week.

I was disgusted with the Flemish TV-commentary, not wanting Vino to win, or for Gilbert to be on the same podium as Vino. I don't remember them this way about VdB, hypocrites.

 

[franciep10]

He also said that since 2007 he stopped training with Ferrari

 

[Mellow Velo]

Revenge on who?! The testers who caught him? The clean riders he cheated?

You think every rider is doped?

Who might they be, for sure?
If the Bio passport is working, then Vino won clean.
If it's not, they are still out there, winning, and they aren't the small fry who keep getting caught.

I'd be interested to know if Uncle Pat has revised his opinion after today.

Brown envelopes come at a cost to the recipient.

 

[ttrider]

I honestly couldn't care less about any past or percieved current indiscretions, i have never commented in the clinic or even looked at a thread there

I appreciate Vino for the rider he is, i genuinely believe he is one of the best animators of cycle races there is

He appears to have one hell of an engine doe anyone else here rate him as one of the top 5 maybe even top 3 time trial riders at the moment? I know its different but when he gets a small gap he just appears impossible to hold onto at time like today with Kolobnev and building a lead over the trio behind

 

[python]

I honestly couldn't care less about any past or percieved current indiscretions, i have never commented in the clinic or even looked at a thread there

I appreciate Vino for the rider he is, i genuinely believe he is one of the best animators of cycle races there is

He appears to have one hell of an engine doe anyone else here rate him as one of the top 5 maybe even top 3 time trial riders at the moment? I know its different but when he gets a small gap he just appears impossible to hold onto at time like today with Kolobnev and building a lead over the trio behind

+1
he is certainly one of the best tters, not sure if he's 3d best.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I thoroughly enjoy Vino's style as a rider, and from a personal perspective I'm delighted to see him setting races alight again.

He obviously had talent to start with, but I must say that I am surprised he has come back to this level. I thought his attitude would be less effective this time around.

Either he didn't need to use boosters to win at the time (which I don't believe) or maybe we are starting to see cleaner races after all.

Maybe, assuming dope use was as common as it seems, the results are very similarish because in the end, those with talent in a level playing field tend to come up trumps anyway. In a level playing field.

So looking at results and bemoan the same names on top, maybe it is less of an indicator of the amount of performance enhancers used, but the actual outcome of a "level" head to head after all.

I'd argue that because we see the same names post doping scandals, maybe it doesn't suggest those riders are still doing the same. This might equally be an indicator that the bio-passport is actually having some tempering effect after all, as caught and more careful riders are still able to trump all.

By extension, it might well be proof of how wide jacked up dope use had spread, then. A level playing field then, a different but fairly level playing field now. That could also add up to the same names.

But that means that to accept Vino as a legitimate winner today, you need to get your head round to that he was an equally fair illegitimate winner then. That they were all at it then, he just got caught.

In a way I like him more for looking at his colleagues and deciding he ain't gonna apologise, only to make those that are equally at it, but are still quiet until they also get caught, look better by extension. By creating the illusion he is the dirty exception. He had the luxury of not having to go through that charade, of re-invention.

For most it is the only option to stay in the game and secure an income in cycling, so I can't blame hem for taking the other route, real or faked.

But if Vino's lab results from today come back within the officially accepted levels of micro-cheating, I'm convinced he today beat the others on a failry level playing field again. One that is cleaner than what we have seen for most of the last decade.

And to be frank, I'm delighted to see him in action again, and having lost none of the spark. I enjoyed seeing him win today, and the way he did it. Until someone comes back with proof he went outside the set parameters, I'd be bonkers not to enjoy the spectacle on display today. Cleaner, and still damn exciting.

Glad to have him back on top.

 

[thehog]

I don't know. Think I prefer watching 200 riders soft pedal over the Tourmalet.

I thoroughly enjoy Vino's style as a rider, and from a personal perspective I'm delighted to see him setting races alight again.

He obviously had talent to start with, but I must say that I am surprised he has come back to this level. I thought his attitude would be less effective this time around.

Either he didn't need to use boosters to win at the time (which I don't believe) or maybe we are starting to see cleaner races after all.

Maybe, assuming dope use was as common as it seems, the results are very similarish because in the end, those with talent in a level playing field tend to come up trumps anyway. In a level playing field.

So looking at results and bemoan the same names on top, maybe it is less of an indicator of the amount of performance enhancers used, but the actual outcome of a "level" head to head after all.

I'd argue that because we see the same names post doping scandals, maybe it doesn't suggest those riders are still doing the same. This might equally be an indicator that the bio-passport is actually having some tempering effect after all, as caught and more careful riders are still able to trump all.

By extension, it might well be proof of how wide jacked up dope use had spread, then. A level playing field then, a different but fairly level playing field now. That could also add up to the same names.

But that means that to accept Vino as a legitimate winner today, you need to get your head round to that he was an equally fair illegitimate winner then. That they were all at it then, he just got caught.

In a way I like him more for looking at his colleagues and deciding he ain't gonna apologise, only to make those that are equally at it, but are still quiet until they also get caught, look better by extension. By creating the illusion he is the dirty exception. He had the luxury of not having to go through that charade, of re-invention.

For most it is the only option to stay in the game and secure an income in cycling, so I can't blame hem for taking the other route, real or faked.

But if Vino's lab results from today come back within the officially accepted levels of micro-cheating, I'm convinced he today beat the others on a failry level playing field again. One that is cleaner than what we have seen for most of the last decade.

And to be frank, I'm delighted to see him in action again, and having lost none of the spark. I enjoyed seeing him win today, and the way he did it. Until someone comes back with proof he went outside the set parameters, I'd be bonkers not to enjoy the spectacle on display today. Cleaner, and still damn exciting.

Glad to have him back on top.

 

[luckyboy]

Who might they be, for sure?

Come on, I've never seen anyone on this forum say 100% of riders are doped, and now Vino has won something it's ok because everyone is doping anyway?

Can you really look at Bbox and say that they are doped? If they are, then they've hardly covered themselves in glory in the past couple of years. 07 results, 08 results, 09 results. Also, not having a positive, or any association with scandal since their inception as Bonjour in 2000. Signing 3 men from Festina and Beloki for half a year have been the dirtiest things they've done.

If the Bio passport is working, then Vino won clean.
If it's not, they are still out there, winning, and they aren't the small fry who keep getting caught.

I'd be interested to know if Uncle Pat has revised his opinion after today.

Brown envelopes come at a cost to the recipient.

I don't know how many people here think that the bio passport is working, but I know it's not many. The only proper set of results we, the public, have actually seen are Armstrong's, and even though the brown envelope factor is pretty high there, it's pretty obvious that they are 'abnormal values' not unlike the type the UCI were supposed to investigate.

He also said that since 2007 he stopped training with Ferrari

Give a ****. He denied doping after he tested positive, so we all know he has a great track record for telling the truth.

 

[thehog]

proper results Armstrong??? What?

What about Basso, Wiggins, Cuengo, the entire Garmin team releasing comprehensive blood results. Armstrong has released nothing. Well he released one graph, modified it, then deleted it.

Come on, I've never seen anyone on this forum say 100% of riders are doped, and now Vino has won something it's ok because everyone is doping anyway?

Can you really look at Bbox and say that they are doped? If they are, then they've hardly covered themselves in glory in the past couple of years. 07 results, 08 reults, 09 results. Also, not having a positive, or any association with scandal since their inception as Bonjour in 2000. Signing 3 men from Festina and Beloki for half a year have been the dirtiest things they've done.




I don't know how many people here think that the bio passport is working, but I know it's not many. The only proper set of results we, the public, have actually seen are Armstrong's, and even though the brown envelope factor is pretty high there, it's pretty obvious that they are 'abnormal values' not unlike the type the UCI were supposed to investigate.




Give a ****. He denied doping after he tested positive, so we all know he has a great track record for telling the truth.

 

[luckyboy]

proper results Armstrong??? What?

What about Basso, Wiggins, Cuengo, the entire Garmin team releasing comprehensive blood results. Armstrong has released nothing. Well he released one graph, modified it, then deleted it.

What about Armstrong's TdF values? The dates on Basso's numbers were too far apart for anyone to really find any signs of manipulation. As were the Wiggins' Giro & Tour ones that I've seen. I admit I've never seen Garmin's or Cunego's blood values. Link please?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

What about Armstrong's TdF values? The dates on Basso's numbers were too far apart for anyone to really find any signs of manipulation. As were the Wiggins' Giro & Tour ones that I've seen. I admit I've never seen Garmin's or Cunego's blood values. Link please?

I think you're looking for this place.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah. It is kind of hard to talk about Vinokourov without talking about doping though, eh?

 

[Francois the Postman]

Yeah. It is kind of hard to talk about Vinokourov without talking about doping though, eh?

Goes for cycling in general, I'd say. Vino is just a part-player.

 

[Bala Verde]

Ok guys let's keep this thread vinoesque, and discuss all thing doping related in the appropriate forum.

 

[High Cotton]

Yeah. It is kind of hard to talk about Vinokourov without talking about doping though, eh?

No more difficult than it is to talk about doping when talking about professional cycling, actually...

 

[Berzin]

This is something I posted on another thread, but it bares repeating-

"Classy win for a guy who was suspended. At least he didn't drag his case through court or blame "depression" like some other pathetic whiners have done in the past.

I'm sure "Roid Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton are eating their hearts out right now.

This is how you administer a properly executed comeback from a doping suspension-by doing your time quietly, coming back and winning a monument."

Here is a quote from Vino-

"“Today was a dream fulfilled. My dream now is to start the Tour and win the Tour with Alberto, to be on the Champs-Elysees with him,” he said. “After the Giro. I will rest as much as possible. It’s an objective to win the Tour with Alberto. I am working hard for that. He’s young and he deserves our support. It’s different to win a classic to win a three-week tour. Alberto is the captain now.”

In other words...

This was Vino and Contador after the race earlier today-says it all, really.

 

[Lifeshape]

I am happy for Vino and especially happy he proclaims himself clean. Funny, though, in that everything I read about his LBL win, he sounds like Ivan Drago from Rocky IV

In the previous post the pic says "Don't worry, I won't pull a Lance on you." It should read "Don't worry, I won't pull a Hinault on you."